2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 340 times)

steve_


powered by plants

    I had severe GI issues my junior which ruined my indoor season. I went to the doctor who said I likely have exercise induced IBS. He recommended I start taking Metamucil to increase the amount of soluble fiber. It made a major difference (after a few days). I hadn't been able to make it through long runs and it was also ruining my workouts, but after taking it I was back to normal.

     

    One other thing that I have found made a huge difference was becoming a pescatarian/vegetarian (I only eat fish occasionally). I had issues with heartburn, stomach cramps, and a sensitive GI (I was off Metamucil) during runs which are now non-existent. I made this change in November 2018 and haven't looked back. I have found I feel healthier and actually think it has been beneficial to me in terms of running performance. My last actual race was 4:39 (19 seconds off of my PR) in the mile and that was with 0 work outs and very little training leading up to it. The two fastest runners I know personally are vegetarians (~14:10 for 5K and ~29:20 for 10k) as well as a fair number of professionals, so maybe there's something to it.

     

    Of course you do and it is.  Eating meat is 100% unnecessary and factory farming is the most environmentally damaging industry operating with almost no regulation.  I'm glad you're on the way to making the full switch to a plant-based diet.  I went plant-based about 5 years ago and my results speak for themselves.

    5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)

    *downhill AF

    steve_


    powered by plants


      Regarding Metamucil: I have been taking that once/day for many years. I'm a big believer in a very high fiber diet for health reasons. I'd highly recommend using it.

       

      To be fair, if your diet is high in fiber, you wouldn't need Metamucil.  Fiber isn't some rare micronutrient that you can only get from one or two foods.  Fresh fruits and vegetable are the ideal source for fiber.

      5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)

      *downhill AF

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

        Thanks for the thoughts, guys - I will note that diet is very individual, and we don't all function well on the same fuel.  (one example - both Metamucil and Citrucel reliably irritate my system and trigger GI issues similar to what I'm currently experiencing, so those unfortunately are not solutions).

         

        As someone who was mostly raised vegetarian (my extended family is Seventh Day Adventist, and vegetarianism is part of the religion) I've learned that I personally function best on a diet that regularly includes red meat or dark poultry meat, along with large amounts of brown rice (my primary carb), corn products, and vegetables.  Vegetarianism does NOT work for me, both because I feel and perform much better when eating dark meat, and because it's extremely hard to eat well on a vegetarian diet when you have to avoid gluten, lactose, beans/legumes, nuts, and soy due to GI trouble or chronic migraine avoidance.

         

        Again, we're all individual, and I'll happily concede that some perform best on a vegetarian diet.  While others, including myself, absolutely do not.  My particular eating habits have worked really well for me for years; the issues are generally when I stray and eat something I shouldn't have, as I did on Monday (at a luncheon that specially catered to a vegetarian co-worker who was leaving, amusingly enough….)

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        JTReeves


           

          To be fair, if your diet is high in fiber, you wouldn't need Metamucil.  Fiber isn't some rare micronutrient that you can only get from one or two foods.  Fresh fruits and vegetable are the ideal source for fiber.

           

          I totally agree, and that's why my diet is very high in fruits and vegetables. The Metamucil is in addition to those, not compensating for a lack of them.

          5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

          2019 races: Athens Ohio Marathon (April 14); Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)

          M_M_C


            This is very interesting. I am surprised soluble fiber (Metamucil) would have adverse effects on you.

             

            This is a shot in the dark, but do you consume Tums or other antacids often?

             

             

            Thanks for the thoughts, guys - I will note that diet is very individual, and we don't all function well on the same fuel.  (one example - both Metamucil and Citrucel reliably irritate my system and trigger GI issues similar to what I'm currently experiencing, so those unfortunately are not solutions).

             

            As someone who was mostly raised vegetarian (my extended family is Seventh Day Adventist, and vegetarianism is part of the religion) I've learned that I personally function best on a diet that regularly includes red meat or dark poultry meat, along with large amounts of brown rice (my primary carb), corn products, and vegetables.  Vegetarianism does NOT work for me, both because I feel and perform much better when eating dark meat, and because it's extremely hard to eat well on a vegetarian diet when you have to avoid gluten, lactose, beans/legumes, nuts, and soy due to GI trouble or chronic migraine avoidance.

             

            3K: 8:29.12 (2017)     5K: 14:56.59 (2016)     8K: 25:27 (2016)     15K: 54:46.2 (2019)     FM: 2:58:48 (2019)

            finbad


              Since we're on the subject of diet and nutrition - there is a fair bit of media debate here at the moment about post-brexit imports of more loosely regulated American/Canadian meat that is currently banned under EU law. Do any of you (vegetarians obviously not included) purposefully avoid growth-hormone treated beef or anything? Not like I'll be packing for Boston with a full suitcase of our notoriously healthy British food or anything  but I'm just interested.

              Upcoming; 3rd May Scottish 5k champs, 9th May Helensburgh 10k, 16th May Dumbarton 10k, 24th May Monument mile, 26th May Shettleston 10k, 1st June Killearn trail 10, 2nd June Milngavie trail race, 16th June 7 hills of Edinburgh, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k

                I think diet is so specific it's hard to correlate with anything. But I'm also not at ALL qualified to say a dang thing. Part of that is that I tend to be pretty resilient with regards to food - I haven't noticed much difference between performance with regards to meals.

                 

                Week Recap:

                5.7, Off (Icy Roads and I didn't want to), 7.75, 6.3, 4.3, 5.3+5k race+10k race+5.3 (21 on the day), 5.8 (ouch)

                 

                First 50 mile week for me since September 2018 and the double race was pretty fun. It's a local race up at the UW Arboretum, which is great for running.

                weatherboy80


                  JT:  Awesome looking week and congrats on getting in 80 miles! 

                   

                  Sling: Great looking MP run within your LR.  Nice confidence booster!

                   

                  M_M_C: Killer workout!  Sounds good on the LT stuff over the next few weeks.  Think I've got two 4 X 2T myself this month.  Good to be thinking about paces just a bit faster than MP right now.

                   

                  Fin:  Nice big week especially with those 2 20+ mile runs.  Really looking forward to seeing your 1/2 next weekend!

                   

                  JMac: As others have said that was a huge workout to hit.  Don't know about you, but I think we might have to rethink your Boston goal time?  Still a couple more weeks to dial down that pace too.  As for the hills I think you being in Central Park is actually a very big advantage for you.  Even though I do quite a bit of EZ hill work each week (see my Monday run) or include bridge repeats on my interval days every 3rd week I have not been able to do a single quality LR (at race pace) on anything but pancake flat roads here.

                   

                  Swim:  As usual a nice big week for you!  MP and LT paces looking very solid!

                   

                  Darkwave:  Great looking week.  Stinks about the GI issues though.  I have certain foods that I have to avoid within a hour or 2 of running.  Sometimes my biggest challenges are afternoon runs a few hours after a big lunch.

                   

                  Me:  Not quite as high mileage from last week, but still very happy with the outcome.  Had one my hardest M/T runs on Wednesday where I was able to hit just under 6:10 for 8+ miles and then jump into 3 tempo miles in very high humidity.  Had to take 2 different fluid breaks to get that one done, but very happy with the result.  Then ran my longest ever training run on Saturday hitting 23 miles in just under 3 hours and was able to progress a bit on the 2nd half of the run after running with friends for the first half.  Followed that up with walking around two Disney parks and think I hit just over 53K steps for the day which may be the most I've ever done in a single day Smile  Hadn't had an all EZ LR in about 3-4 weeks and figured it was time since Daniels suggests those every few weeks.  Have about 2 weeks of max volume before I start to draw back.  Last year I ran my highest mileage about 5-6 weeks and then brought that down ever so slightly before going into a 2-3 week taper.

                    

                  Weekly Summary
                  Monday, Feb 25, 2019 thru Sunday, Mar 03, 2019

                  Day

                  Miles

                  Pace

                  Description

                  Link

                  Mon

                  10.2

                  7:22

                  My hair blew off at High Point

                  strava

                  Mon

                  6.1

                  7:38

                  Afternoon Double

                  strava

                  Tue

                  10.2

                  7:57

                  EZ + strides

                  strava

                  Wed

                  17.3

                  6:43

                  2.5E + 8.3M + 3T + 3.3E

                  strava

                  Thu

                  10.3

                  7:38

                  Mixed sfc due to missing sidewalks

                  strava

                  Fri

                  6.2

                  7:28

                  EZ + strides

                  strava

                  Sat

                  23.2

                  7:40

                  23EZ: Almost 3hrs!

                  strava

                  Sun

                  5.2

                  7:11

                  Lunch Run

                  strava

                   

                  88.7

                  7:26

                     

                  5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)

                  Nimmals


                    DW - I agree with you eating vegan isn't productive for everyone. Sorry to hear bout the GI.

                    I won't comment on vegans other than to say to each his own.

                     

                    Madison your training impresses me. you'll be running sub 2:30 in a couple more cycles at your rate.

                    Back in the old sub 2:45  competitive jerks there was one guy started at 3:06 got down to a 1:09 half and a 2:28 marathon. He also lost like 20lbs during the transition

                     

                    JTReeves - How about Kejelcha and Laura Muir both laying down the law. My friend was in the race he DLF a 3:57. in a comeback aafter stomach surgery. I was like losing to the WR holder isnt such a bad thing Kyle. It was a great race. Kejelcha stunned me.

                     

                    Finbad - Impressive week as always. I am reassessing my Boston goal I dont think my kid is ready for a sub 2:40 so I am thinking we will go for 2:45 so join us if you'd like. I hope you start a petition to rename Glasgow Indoor Track to the Dame Laura Muir Track. She has she been the most dominant athlete in that facility. The home crowd moves her. She Double Down on Friday and Sunday.

                     

                    Mikkey - Hope you're feeling much better there is nothing wrong with reassessing you goals. I know time is against us but you can always come back stronger and age grade the effort. In 2016 I ran a PR of 3:16 in the 50K being pushed by Lt Col Alex Hetherington. That guy is a beast one of my favorite everyday runners. I was hoping to go 3:15 this year but my foot had other plans and interrupted my training. Get better come back stronger. Even if you're pain free, do it for fun because training interrupted dictates you have to be honest with yourself and make the necessary adjustments.

                     

                    Day Miles Pace Description  
                    Mon 0.0 0:00 Extensor tendonitis  
                    Tue 11.5 8:11 2K Tuesdays  
                    Wed 9.0 8:44 Easy Morning run  
                    Thu 0.0 0:00 cont'd resting Extensor tendonitis  
                    Fri 7.9 8:34 Easy run testing the waters  
                    Sat 11. 9:03 Rest Day  
                    Sun 31.1 6:25 USATF 50K (2:45:51 thru marathon)  
                      59.5    Total Mileage  


                    Elite Jogger

                       

                       

                      Mikkey - Hope you're feeling much better there is nothing wrong with reassessing you goals. I know time is against us but you can always come back stronger and age grade the effort. I ran a PR of 3:16 in the 50K being pushed by Lt Col Alex Hetherington. That guy is a beast one of my favorite everyday runners. I was hoping to go 3:15 but my foot had other plans and interrupted my training. Get better come back stronger. Even if you're pain free, do it for fun because training interrupted dictates you have to be honest with yourself and make the necessary adjustments.

                       

                       

                      Thanks Slammin, I’m feeling slightly better.  Anyway, huge congrats on the 50k PR...I always know what to expect from you and you never disappoint!

                       

                      Finbad - The Brits are doomed post Brexit if we end up eating loosely regulated American meat. I personally won’t be touching it!

                      5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:51:32 (2016)

                       

                      Next Up: London Mary - 28th April

                      Nimmals


                         

                        Thanks Slammin, I’m feeling slightly better.  Anyway, huge congrats on the 50k PR...I always know what to expect from you and you never disappoint!

                         

                         

                        Sorry about that I had to edit that It wasn't a PR. My foot had been out of commission so I knew better than to try.

                         

                        I ran 3:19:51.


                        Elite Jogger

                           

                          Sorry about that I had to edit that It wasn't a PR. My foot had been out of commission so I knew better than to try.

                           

                          I ran 3:19:51.

                           

                          That’s still a great time and probably a similar AG % to your 2016 PR!

                           

                          Please stick around on this thread....you will either educate or fuck people off 😀

                          5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:51:32 (2016)

                           

                          Next Up: London Mary - 28th April

                          JTReeves


                             

                            JTReeves - How about Kejelcha and Laura Muir both laying down the law. My friend was in the race he DLF a 3:57. in a comeback aafter stomach surgery. I was like losing to the WR holder isnt such a bad thing Kyle. It was a great race. Kejelcha stunned me.

                             

                            Nimmals: Kejelcha's 3:47 was amazing. This time he didn;t have lousy pacing slowing him down and he cranked down the pace for the last few laps. As I said before I'm really looking forward to what he does outdoors in the 3000 and 5000. He's only 21 and I think he could put up times in those events we have not seen for 20+ years. Remember he already ran a 12:46 last year.

                             

                            I did not see Muir's race; tried to find video of it but could not; it sounds like she really torched the last 400m. Koko could not respond.

                             

                            BTW, awesome job on the 50k!

                             

                            Weatherboy: Another big week! So do you feel like MP is around 6:05 for you now?

                            5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

                            2019 races: Athens Ohio Marathon (April 14); Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)

                            Nimmals


                               

                              Nimmals: Kejelcha's 3:47 was amazing. This time he didn;t have lousy pacing slowing him down and he cranked down the pace for the last few laps. As I said before I'm really looking forward to what he does outdoors in the 3000 and 5000. He's only 21 and I think he could put up times in those events we have not seen for 20+ years. Remember he already ran a 12:46 last year.

                               

                              I did not see Muir's race; tried to find video of it but could not; it sounds like she really torched the last 400m. Koko could not respond.

                               

                              BTW, awesome job on the 50k!

                               

                               

                              In the 3K Laura sat until the last  lap and created a 15m gapby finish. Check it out amazing.

                              1500m Glasgow

                               

                              3000 Glasgow 2019 (w)

                              JMac11


                                DW - Thanks for the help. The quad issue is my biggest worry, especially as they were the first muscle group to give out in my last race. 5-7 miles downhill is crazy! I don't even know where one would access that kind of terrain. I'm going to throw out a nutrition question soon when things calm down a bit regarding race day, would love to hear your thoughts since you brought it up.

                                 

                                Fin - you have quite an aggressive goal for the half given I assume you won't be tapering into it. If you can put up a sub 1:16 even on a mini-taper, you have a great shot at sub 2:40. Regarding American meat, I definitely try to go organic, but that's something that's difficult outside major cities. Factory farming really is bad in the US

                                 

                                Steve - Speaking of factory farming, I've cut down on my meat consumption by at least 50% over the past year, 75% if you just look at land-based. I'm not sure I'll make it all the way to vegetarian, but I'm trying. One thing I struggle with is quality days. Since I run at night, I find I need something more protein heavy at lunch to get through the next 7 hours before my run. Tofu isn't seeming to cut it.

                                 

                                Swim - same question as DW: where did you get the double hard workout idea?

                                 

                                JT - You are too nice. Here's an interesting exercise: what's the standard deviation of your miles per week over the last 12 weeks? Yeah, yeah, nerd alert, but it'll give you some insight: I've averaged 46 miles per week with a standard deviation of 21! I guarantee you that nobody on this board has that sort of volatility. Maybe Fin because he was injured, but I doubt even that. Finally, one thing I noticed with your training: do you run 20+ every single weekend? I feel like I can't remember the last time you didn't.

                                 

                                Weather - As a Daniels fan, I'm surprised you pushed your long run so far. I've really struggled with his idea of limiting to 2.5 hours, but it's hard to argue against it given he beats you up in so many other ways. I like saying I want to get in 5 runs in a cycle of between 2:30 and 2:45, but certainly if it's the summer and crazy humid (i.e. Florida), I can see getting up to 3:00. For me, my goal time of PR'ing I think is right. I just don't have the MPW right now to feel confident attacking something like 2:42. But you never know until you get out there race day. I'll have a much better idea of a reasonable goal after my half next weekend.

                                5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                                 

                                Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19)