2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 395 times)

finbad


     

    Race Question - I know Madison did 2 crazy marathons in a short time span, but for normal folks, have you been able to PR a shorter distance within a relatively quick turnaround after a marathon? I'm asking because there is a half marathon 4.5 weeks after Boston that I want to run, but only if I can run well. I know that I'll be recovered enough that I won't be risking injury, but I'm curious if anyone else has done well in these types of races.

     

    In 2017 I ran 2:53 PR then 2:48 PR about a month apart and last year ran two good 10k races, one of them a PR, about a month after London. I think your time frame sounds ideal, time to recover and still add a little sharpness.

     

    Lela- excellent race

    Upcoming; 3rd May Scottish 5k champs, 9th May Helensburgh 10k, 16th May Dumbarton 10k, 24th May Monument mile, 26th May Shettleston 10k, 1st June Killearn trail 10, 2nd June Milngavie trail race, 16th June 7 hills of Edinburgh, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k

    Swim5599


      Lela - amazing PR. I do agree with Steve that the course is tough now. I'm going for a PR there too, but it's very likely we will be facing a headwind for most of the race. Also, finishing in Central Park seems like a nightmare. I'm not looking forward to having to run such hilly terrain over the last 2 miles or so. I'm not sure I'll run it in the future, but I had a deferred entry from last year and figured I would give it a shot.

       

      Steve - how are you feeling?

       

      Race Question - I know Madison did 2 crazy marathons in a short time span, but for normal folks, have you been able to PR a shorter distance within a relatively quick turnaround after a marathon? I'm asking because there is a half marathon 4.5 weeks after Boston that I want to run, but only if I can run well. I know that I'll be recovered enough that I won't be risking injury, but I'm curious if anyone else has done well in these types of races.

      I haven’t raced 4.5 weeks after but I have about 6 weeks after and they have usually gone pretty well.  Been a bit flat after this marathon but most of the time I have felt pretty good.

       

      inside a marathon by Scott Fauble and Ben Rosario is a must read.  If you have ever coached on any level you will love it.  If you haven’t ever coached you will love it.  Fauble is going to do massive things at that distance.

      HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04

      JMac11


        Thanks everyone for the replies, looks like I can do it. Steve - that's exactly why I was asking, I have a guaranteed entry into Brooklyn and was considering using it. I've run the race probably 4 times at this point and was getting tired of it, but it's right before I'm going on a 1.5 week trip with little running so I want to execute on some of my Boston fitness before losing some of it. Also, glad to hear you're doing better. I just noticed yesterday everybody on the subway has a running nose and a cough, seems like this all sprung up recently. Trying my best to avoid it, made sure to get a flu shot too.

         

        Finbad - I'll ask the same question to you, but more on an injury front: how are you feeling?

        5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

         

        Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 


        Laura

          Thanks all - still riding the PR high.

           

          Steve/Jmac - So despite living in NY my entire life, I've never raced in NYC. Granted I live 6 hours from the city. With that said, I have been down there to spectate the marathon a few times. But in general, I don't have a good perspective of what is good bad about races there (I have run over some of the bridges and in CP but not enough to really have it burned in my brain - though this could work in my favor in some ways I'd imagine. Based on what you said and I have heard, it's definitely a harder course than before. But (I'm weird) and actually would prefer that, since I am using it as a tuneup for Boston. I'd rather run slightly slower but have  to practice running with wind, crowds, and hills to make sure I'm better ready to roll come April 15th. Maybe that means I don't knock down my new PR again in March, but if it means I'm set up for better success at the full distance I'm okay with that.

           

          Swim- I actually just unwrapped my copy of inside a marathon. Pre-ordered a while ago and it came  a week or two ago but currently have like 3 others I'm reading. I'm hoping to wrap some of those up this weekend so I can get started on it. I've heard really good things though and looking forward to being able to chat about it after with you/anyone else who reads it. I also listened to a podcast with Fauble just recently that was recorded months before his breakthrough, it was interesting to listen knowing how things kind of turned out for him last year.

           

          Jmac- I really like that turnaround time for races, maybe a little less for fulls but a full to a half or shorter distance - it's really good timing. You have the space to recover but not so far removed that you lose a ton of fitness.

          Pre-Baby PR's (all from 2015): 5k: 18:46  10k: 38:37 HM: 1:24:51 FM: 2:58:13

          Postpartum PR's: 5k: 18:18 (2018)  HM: 1:21:14 (2019) FM: 2:57:06 (2018-12 mo PP)

           

          Next Up: Erie Marathon

           

          {Strava}{IG}

           

          Andres1045


             

            Race Question - I know Madison did 2 crazy marathons in a short time span, but for normal folks, have you been able to PR a shorter distance within a relatively quick turnaround after a marathon? I'm asking because there is a half marathon 4.5 weeks after Boston that I want to run, but only if I can run well. I know that I'll be recovered enough that I won't be risking injury, but I'm curious if anyone else has done well in these types of races.

             

            Sorry I'm a little late here. Seems to me if you just want to do well, that might be easier. But doing close to your best will be difficult. My guess is going marathon to marathon would be a little easier (still very difficult). Steve was probably aided in the fact that he is a big mileage guy, so his ability to recover and not lose his shorter distance speed was much better. And if I'm remembering finbad's experience correctly, he went in to the first holding back a little, then let loose in the second one.

             

            Why don't you ask yourself: Were you ready to race a half all out the first part of December? Or how well would you have done? If you're satisfied with that answer, go for it.

             

            I still believe you could've gotten a sub 1:18 at Staten Island had you not gone into it sick (or was it slightly injured?).  Even with what sounds like a difficult NYC course, I imagine you'll go under 1:19 there (again, assuming the training goes as well as it did this past Fall).

             

            I'd personally find it very difficult to do better 4 weeks after a marathon than I could 3 before.  At the same time, I have no problem planning a race that I know I won't PR in, or even do well in.

            Upcoming races:  I dunno.

            weatherboy80


              Lela - congrats again on your massive PR.  Sounds like a sub 80 might just be right around the corner!  Don't currently have any plans to go visit our family since we were up there in late October.  Thinking more like the summer and fall too cool off from here  Smile

               

              Agree with what some others have said as I think 3-4 weeks after a marathon you should be ready to give another race a shot.  Ran a solid 10K about 3 weeks after my marathon PR last Jan/Feb and then felt like I was ready to run another solid marathon within 4-6 weeks, but I have to imagine the mileage base going into each one plays a big role.  Also think a painful marathon gone wrong where you trudge through the finish will leave the body beat up more.

              5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)

              JMac11


                Andres - You have a good memory with Staten Island! I was sick going into that. The reason why I want to run that half is that I'm not sure NYC is going to be a PR course, as discussed on this board. I'm certainly going to give it a go. Absolutely no idea what to shoot for since I'm still recovering from injury but I'll cross that bridge when I get there. However, I figured running on a much easier course afterwards gives me another shot just in case we do run into a bad weather day. Otherwise, I think you're right: much easier to PR during marathon than training than afterwards. I probably will give my half PR another go later in the year. I'm still trying to figure out whether I want to run CIM or Houston. I think CIM would normally be the clear choice, but I'm going on (another) 1.5 week vacation about 16 weeks out from CIM with absolutely zero access to treadmills (it's a safari) so I'm not sure if it's just better to do Houston, which gives me a few more weeks to train. Anyway, thanks for your input!

                 

                Weather - I still can't believe how crazy your cycle is with you running that crazy run on Sunday and then putting in 55 miles in the first 4 days of this week.

                5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 

                weatherboy80


                  Thanks JMac. Yeah, I must admit I'm going to have to a bit careful as I've done quite a bit of volume with quality in a short span and hence why I only ran 6 today Wink  Also been trying to keep up with nightly core and some stretching work in the time being.   Having said that I'm going to need a week where I take a bit of a step back to make sure I absorb some of this latest work.  I also need to move my next LR tomorrow morning and just entered a local 5K (for a good charity) and will run that us 8E + 3.1T +7 or 8E, which at least sounds a bunch easier than the 13 at quality last weekend - lol.  Sunday will still be a recovery day!

                  5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)

                  finbad


                     

                    Finbad - I'll ask the same question to you, but more on an injury front: how are you feeling?

                     

                    I'm feeling pretty good considering. Workouts are very ordinary but I'm getting it done and pulling up ok afterwards. Going to do a proper long run workout on Sunday so that will be a good test.

                    Also, Andres is correct about my 2017 marathons, I took the first half of the first one pretty steady but I was still all in by the end.

                    Upcoming; 3rd May Scottish 5k champs, 9th May Helensburgh 10k, 16th May Dumbarton 10k, 24th May Monument mile, 26th May Shettleston 10k, 1st June Killearn trail 10, 2nd June Milngavie trail race, 16th June 7 hills of Edinburgh, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                      Lela - congrats again on your massive PR.  Sounds like a sub 80 might just be right around the corner!  Don't currently have any plans to go visit our family since we were up there in late October.  Thinking more like the summer and fall too cool off from here  Smile

                       

                      Agree with what some others have said as I think 3-4 weeks after a marathon you should be ready to give another race a shot.  Ran a solid 10K about 3 weeks after my marathon PR last Jan/Feb and then felt like I was ready to run another solid marathon within 4-6 weeks, but I have to imagine the mileage base going into each one plays a big role.  Also think a painful marathon gone wrong where you trudge through the finish will leave the body beat up more.

                       

                      Jumping on the congrats as well - and going sub-80 would put you in range for an OTQ (seems to be the pre-requisite fitness from what I've seen from teammates/friends).

                       

                      As for post-marathon recovery, I really think it depends.  I can tell you that there's no way that I could run a solid time at any distance - marathon or shorter, within 4 weeks of a marathon.  Some of that may be that I like to take a solid break after my marathons.  But even when I've jumped back into training 2 weeks post-marathon, I've noted that my performance is definitely compromised for some time after.  I've run a second marathon 8-9 weeks after a marathon twice, and both times I felt that my performance in the second was compromised by the first.  I just don't have the same reserves.

                       

                      Again, it's individual - I certainly know quite a few people who bounce right back from a marathon to PR at another distance a few weeks later.  I suspect that my slow recovery post marathon is related to the fact that I'm a very slow recoverer anyways.  I also structure my training to peak at my goal race  - I wouldn't be surprised if that's also why I'm done for a while after.

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                        . I'm still trying to figure out whether I want to run CIM or Houston. I think CIM would normally be the clear choice, but I'm going on (another) 1.5 week vacation about 16 weeks out from CIM with absolutely zero access to treadmills (it's a safari) so I'm not sure if it's just better to do Houston, which gives me a few more weeks to train. Anyway, thanks for your input!

                         

                        How many weeks do you normally train for a marathon?  I would think a break 16 weeks out might be very well timed for the cycle, and a plus, not a minus.

                         

                        (Plus, CIM really is a fantastic race.)

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                        JTReeves


                          Lela: Wow, congrats on the outstanding half!  That's a great start to your Boston cycle and your pursuit of an OTQ. That time puts you in sub 2:50 marathon territory according to JD's calculator, which I find to be pretty accurate. It's great that you had competition and were actually racing against others, that has to help you push yourself a bit harder.

                           

                          Regarding racing after a marathon, my experience is similar to Darkwave: I have trouble doing anything fast in the 4 weeks post-marathon. I've jumped into training hard-ish just a couple weeks post-race in the past, and it came back to bite me in the form of colds and fatigue. That said, I need a long time to recover from hard workouts in general relative to others.

                          5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

                          Up next: Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)

                          steve_


                          powered by plants

                            Lela, if it makes you feel any better, I've never raced in Buffalo despite my wife going to college there (I think that's where you said you were).  I'm sure you'll crush that half.  You'll definitely have a ton of folks to run with, and I think there may even be a 1:20 pace group.

                             

                            Andres and JMac, ugh...Staten Island.  What a crap race that is.  Another scheme by NYRR to get people out Manhattan.

                            5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)

                            *downhill AF

                            madisonrunner


                               

                               Race Question - I know Madison did 2 crazy marathons in a short time span, but for normal folks, have you been able to PR a shorter distance within a relatively quick turnaround after a marathon? I'm asking because there is a half marathon 4.5 weeks after Boston that I want to run, but only if I can run well. I know that I'll be recovered enough that I won't be risking injury, but I'm curious if anyone else has done well in these types of races.

                               

                              I do this pretty regularly and find that once my marathon soreness goes away (~1 week) it will take me another week or so of easy running before I'm ready to try anything hard.  I always do a workout of some sort prior to the second race just as a trial to see if I'm ready to go after a PR or not.  So I think 3 weeks would be about the minimum between racing a marathon and going after a PR at another race.  Just try it and see how it goes.  Based on your running the week before the race you should have a good idea of if you're ready or not.

                              Marathon PR:  2:35:49 (2019)  Goal Race:  TBD

                              madisonrunner


                                 Lela - great race!  Always exciting to have a breakthrough.

                                 

                                 

                                madisonrunner- commuting mileage amazes me, it's a great way to build. I wish I had that as an option! Aside from commuting and LR on weekend, do you build in speed work with it?

                                 

                                I certainly do speed work.  Last cycle I followed Pfitz for the first time so did LAT and VO2max workouts on my way to work when the schedule called for them.  I usually do the MP runs on the weekend as part of a long run.

                                Marathon PR:  2:35:49 (2019)  Goal Race:  TBD