Forums >Racing>2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread
Awesome race efforts Fin & JT! Looking primed and ready.
Had my "peak" training week with the highest mileage of this cycle. Legs are pretty tired, but no nagging aches/pains heading into the taper. Had a solid workout Wednesday then an encouraging long run yesterday. Lots of fun this morning in the rain/wind running around the cherry blossoms. I'm also running Cherry Blossom 10 miler next weekend, but only at an easy effort. Starting to get excited for Boston!
Weekly Summary Monday, Mar 25, 2019 thru Sunday, Mar 31, 2019
Madison
My goals:
Bronze- PR
Silver- Sub 2:50
Gold- Sub 2:45
3K: 8:29.12 (2017) 5K: 14:56.59 (2016) 8K: 25:27 (2016) 15K: 53:46 (2022) HM: 75:41 (2022) FM: 2:43:17 (2022)
Madison: I updated the table with your sub 2:34 goal. You'll be this thread's first marathon for 2019 and I'm sure you'll have a great race; you've had an excellent cycle. Good luck!
Jayluf: Nice 70+ week.
I was looking at the results for the 10k and the guy who finished 2nd overall ran 37:38 and he is 61 years old!!! I though he looked older, like mid 50's but would not have thought 61. Quite inspiring.
2:52:16 (2018)
Fin really good stuff today.
JT solid. I agree just that one away and look forward to your marathon
MMC that 15k was nothing to sneeze at
madison it is a fast course but the congested start plus Newton make it very Difficult to get right
good looking weeks
78 this week
mon 8 8:20
tue 8 8:20
wed AM 9 with 35 min at 6;19
PM 10 with 4x8:30 at 5:50
thurs 8 8:18
fri 9.25 with 35 at 6:22
sat 8 8:15
sun 18 as 8 easy then 60 minutes at 6:14
HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04
MMC - tough course to pace correctly and it's hardly like you blew up. Just think of it like a nice hard effort pre-Boston.
Mikkey - A+ race. That is an AG% to be proud of.
JT - nice to break the 38 barrier
Madison - looking to seeing your excellent training paying off.
Jayluf - no niggles going into the taper! nice
Swim - big week and good looking LR
My week: really good week, dropped down the mileage a bit and the legs started to pop. Tuesday workout was great with the efforts coming in around 5:35. I was totally hoping to repeat the 2 PR's in one weekend trick and ran a 3k on Friday but got slightly boxed in at the beginning and missed my PR by 1 second, gaaah. Legs recovered quite well so did 4 track laps of running the straights and jogging the bends yesterday. 10 mile race this morning had perfect conditions (no wind, 5C) and my intention was to race at HM effort then speed up the last couple of miles, felt good throughout and could have done couple more miles if I'd had to. Nice confidence boost. Official time 56:29.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Mar 25, 2019 thru Sunday, Mar 31, 2019
Upcoming; 14th Sep Scottish veterans XC trials, 289th Sep Great Scottish Run 1/2, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k
Mother of Cats
Also, the whole Athlete's Village experience will cost you some time. That's a lot of walking and sitting outside pre-race, and it takes something out of you.
Finbad - OOF on the one second - I would be highly annoyed.
***
My week: 58 miles, 16 "miles of pool-running, and 3000 yards of swimming.
M: Yoga and 8 "miles of pool-running.T: 12 miles, including 2x800, 1600, 2x800, 2x200 in 3:07, 3:02, 6:06, 2:58, 2:57, 39 and 38. Also leg strengthwork and 1000 yards recovery swimming.W: 8 miles very easy (9:21), yoga, then another 4 miles very easy (8:51) plus drills/stridesTh: upper body strength/core and 8 "miles" of pool-running.F: 12 miles, including 6400m (~4 miles) tempo on the track in 25:34 (6:29/6:26/6:21/6:18). Also leg strengthwork and 1000 yards recovery swimming.Sa: 10 miles very easy (8:37) plus drills/strides and then upper body strength/core plus some DIY yoga.Su: 12 miles progressive, with the first 4 miles averaging 8:52, next 4 averaging 7:27, last 4 averaging 6:57. Followed with very light leg strengthwork and 1000 yards recovery swimming.
JTReeves - you can go ahead and put me down for sub-63 for Cherry Blossom. It's a reach, but doable, and the forecast for that race is looking very good right now. My Shamrock half time, including portajohn stop, equates to 63:32. And I'm not planning on a repeat of that experience.
My current 10 mile PR is 1:03:55 - at that time I was running 1:26x for the half-marathon distance. So I have some basis for being optimistic, since I'm running 1:24 for the half distance now.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
RIP Milkman
Good racing everyone once again.
Madison - Good luck this upcoming weekend! Would love a summary of your cycle if you get a chance during the week. You put up some crazy good mileage and it's always a good reminder of the work you have to put in to get to the times you're running.
Jay - I was surprised by the 22 miles with 10 @ MP this weekend. Do you always run that long/hard 2 weeks before your races?
MMC - I like all of your goals.
Fin - I think your time indicates the fitness is there, impressive with a 3K on Friday.
DW - If you get good weather, I feel good about a PR for you!
Me - I only taper somewhat in the first week (10%). My legs felt great in the first half the week, but are definitely feeling the mileage now. My 20 minute tempo this morning was really hard and I almost bailed after the 2nd mile, which involved elevation gain (I usually do it on a flatter terrain but wanted to push myself a bit) and headwinds, but I worked hard to finish it. After a really inconsistent cycle, I have now put in 5 straight weeks of 60+ miles. I'll drop another 15% in mileage next week down to 52. Still don't expect to be feeling good at the end of next week.
I liked MMC medal system for goals instead of the usual ABC system, so here are mine for Boston. My guess is that Fin and Weather have the same exact goals. I would define Gold as a stretch goal, which to me should be hit less than 50% of the time. As usual with Boston, these are all assuming good weather, which I will define as anything up to the mid 50s with either light winds or crosswinds. Part of me does not want 2011 weather like Madison mentioned, can't be having asterisks on this race!
Gold - Sub 2:40
Silver - Sub 2:42:30
Bronze - Sub 2:45
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
powered by plants
I love all this Boston talk. I almost wish I was running this year.
First 90 mile week of the year for me and hit 1000 for the year also today.
M- 11 jog am, 4 jog pm
T- 11 jog am, 4 jog pm
W- 12 easy am
T- 11 w/ 2 x (1200, 800, 2x400,4x200) progressive. Track was locked so I had to do this on the boardwalk
F- 10 jog
S- 10 easy
S- 18. 10 easy, 5 at MP+20, 6x400 w/400 @ 5-8k recovery on the track
90+
5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)
*downhill AF
Table is updated with recent results and refined goals.
JMac: Adjusted your goal from 2:46 to 2:45, but let me know if you want your "silver" or "gold" goal times on the table.
MMC: I left your goal at what you originally gave (sub 2:50); let me know if you want it modified.
General comment: I'll only put a race in the table if you ask me to do so; though some of us list upcoming races on signature lines I am not proactively putting those in. Just let me know which ones you consider table-worthy and I'll throw them in.
Sounds like some awesome results this weekend - well done everyone!
MMC: Great time/race. Wuoldn't worry especially if the HR came down. Mentally it is hard to go to the well very often. That's why I have a bit of trouble racing more often, which is what I probably should do. You'll be ready for the big show in a few weeks.
Fin: Just a nasty time you threw down. I'd say you are looking a bit faster than me come race day especially if you said this race felt controlled and could have hit a few more miles at pace! Watch out come Boston especially with some rested legs! Can we get those conditions at Beantown?
Mikkey: Congrats on the sub 18! I would say that is very excellent for an old guy
JT: Congrats on on the 10K PR! Having a hill like that at the end doesn't sound very fun. Think you are also ready to go in just a couple weeks. Taper time!!
Madison: Yup, I'd say you are ready to go! That is a crazy fast 3 X 1!
Jay: Nice last big week. Nice big 22 miler to boot! Taper time is right
Swim: Nice big week and a stellar LR!
Darkwave: Looking forward to your 10 mile race. Nice week to boot.
JMac: You put in a great last few weeks, especially on top of your fast HM PR just 2 weeks ago, so I wouldn't worry too much about the workout this morning. Plus your 3 X 2T on Thursday was flying!!
Steve: Huge week - well done!
For me one last sort of big week before a larger cutback this coming week, similar to what JMac is likely doing. Kind of following the same recipe from my marathon PR last January. Daniels prescribes quite a bit of threshold work in this first taper week so I had 14 miles worth of those split between Wednesday and Saturday. Yesterday the first 2 felt awful and then were sort of all over the place on the next 2 running close to 5K pace on one and then HM pace on the next. Plus did those after a very nice EZ 8 mile warmup with others. Other run of note was some moderate paced running on my local hill loop which I will hit just one more time (tomorrow) and then no more hills until race day.
Gold - Sub 2:40 (everything has to go right)
Silver - Sub 2:45 (this one just makes sense given the hills at Boston compared to all my pancake flat workout loops)
Bronze - PR (<2:48:58; This is just here if things don't go according to plan or we get sub-par weather - lol)With that said, plan will be to run what I feel like is my normal tapered marathon race effort given the day and conditions. Obviously weather will be the biggest wildcard and I will adjust as we get close.
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
I liked MMC medal system for goals instead of the usual ABC system, so here are mine for Boston.
*unlurk*
I still honestly believe one goal is all you need. This A/B/C/gold/silver/bronze thing is just different ways of dancing around the same old mental trap of giving yourself a couple of outs so even if you didn't hit the top target, you still came away with something. And even if they're just degrees of overperformance its still mentally distracting.
At <50% that gold target is a moonshot, not a goal. I think something around the 70-80% confidence level is where you need to be (having factored in weather, course etc.) - more likely than not than you can get there, but you need to work to avoid the 20-30% scenario eventuating.
Given your bronze goal is still a PB, albeit a small one, and you're in very good form, I'd be asking if your real goal needs to be closer to that silver target.
*relurk*
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
I usually don't use the three tier system too often. I would recommend it for people who tend to get down on themselves after races and their negative attitude affects parts of their life outside of running.
*unlurk* I still honestly believe one goal is all you need. This A/B/C/gold/silver/bronze thing is just different ways of dancing around the same old mental trap of giving yourself a couple of outs so even if you didn't hit the top target, you still came away with something. And even if they're just degrees of overperformance its still mentally distracting. At <50% that gold target is a moonshot, not a goal. I think something around the 70-80% confidence level is where you need to be (having factored in weather, course etc.) - more likely than not than you can get there, but you need to work to avoid the 20-30% scenario eventuating. Given your bronze goal is still a PB, albeit a small one, and you're in very good form, I'd be asking if your real goal needs to be closer to that silver target. *relurk*
My goals for Boston
Gold- 2:59:59 and no cramping at the finish
Silver- 2:59:59 and cramping at the finish
Bronze- 2:57:59, I qualify for NYC marathon, and I have a reason to not retire from marathons for another year and a half.
Just moved, but with some rearranging I managed to get in my runs thus far, including some nice fast downhill today (my personal shuttle to the top of the hill bailed last minute, so I decided to just walk/slowly jog back up each time). Something in my knee popped during an attempt at treadmill strides a few days ago, but I'm hoping that returns to normal. I'm only feeling it during warm ups.
So much updating going on lately, but great to see everybody seems pretty injury free at the moment with lots of great workouts and tuneup races. You guys/gals are all really inspiring.
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
Thanks all for the well wishes!
I used Pftiz's training plan for this cycle and my last cycle in Fall 2018 (highest mileage 12 week plan in edition 1 for 2018 and the highest mileage 12 week plan in edition 2 for 2019). For each workout Pfitz states what the pace should be:
VO2max - 5k pace
LAT - 15k-HM pace
MP - marathon pace
Long run - start within ~20% of MP and drop down to within ~10% of MP for the last 5 miles
I looked at the best workout of each type and determined a Daniels VDOT for each workout. Here's the table I came up with from that analysis. In parentheses is the number of each workout I did during the cycle.
Every workout registered as a 65 VDOT this cycle. My goal though is a little slower than 2:32:30 (which is a 65 VDOT marathon) because I am not familiar with the course (and it has some hills in it) and I assume I will not hit the tangents perfectly so will likely lose 1-2s per mile by running extra distance.
This is probably the best summary of my last 2 cycles. My log is open though to see the gory details.
Madison - Super impressive stuff, averaging 95 over 9 weeks is great. I'm glad the weather forecast looks good, seems like you've gotten a few good weather ones recently right? I also like your summary, never seen someone look at it that way but it's a great way to show where your relative strengths/weaknesses are in terms of VDOT.
Moose Mugs - Coach Mikkey on Strava pointed something out to me, which I didn't fully appreciate: both Weatherboy and Finbad have a shot at a Moose Mug! That would be awesome if we could secure one this year. That should be their stretch goal, although Fin gets an extra minute. Does he need to break 2:39 to get it, or does 2:39:59 count as one?
Finlay - Saw this article and thought of you: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/27/world/europe/scotland-overtoun-bridge-dog-suicide.html
Mark/Goals - I'll really have to disagree there, although I can see the rationale. My "gold" is a stretch goal for sure, but I wouldn't frame it as a "moonshot" like you did. I think you need to have something that you are working towards that isn't going to happen 70-80% of the time. Think about how many guys go into major marathons saying their goal is to win. Well only one of them actually have that ability, and even that person may be less than 50%. However, having that stretch mindset means they're going to work as hard as possible before the race and during the race to achieve everything they can, even if only one person can win. If you can hit your goal 4 out 5 times, I do not see how you are possibly pushing yourself both physically and mentally to be the best you can be. If anything, having a goal that hits that frequently is exactly what you were saying: it's just a way for people to have outs and feel good about hitting what they went out for. I'd rather go out in the race with a stretch goal of 2:40, knowing I need a lot to go perfectly, but coming away low 2:40s is great. The bronze goal is more of a "if I don't hit this I'm going to be pissed."