Forums >Racing>2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread
Hope everyone had a good week and that the injuries are on the mend.
This week had all the components I would like to have in my marathon training weeks (1 hard session, a hilly run, and a 20+ mile LR). The Q session of 4 x 2 mi on the mill (0.5 mile recovery) at 6:15 pace was much harder than I would have hoped but I survived it. Got in a nice hilly MLR on Friday after work, and with a lot of family activities Saturday took the day off. I could have done a run in the early morning Saturday, but coming off the MLR just 12 hours before, figured it would only wear me out. The day off let me go into today's long run feeling fresh.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Jan 07, 2019 thru Sunday, Jan 13, 2019
2:52:16 (2018)
Nice, well balanced week JT. Added bonus of having your head in the right place feeling good about training.
I'm pretty happy with my week too. Managed 2 strength sessions. Bailed monday cos I was sore, Tuesday workout was poor, Thursday workout was OK and Today's long run was good. Best of the week is that I seem to have won my 7yo round to a regular Saturday morning running date.
Aim for next week it to push the mileage a bit more and actually run some hilly stuff
Upcoming; 14th Sep Scottish veterans XC trials, 289th Sep Great Scottish Run 1/2, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k
Mother of Cats
Finbad - nice job on the recruitment/conversion. And always good when a week ends better than it started.
JTReeves - good week, and good call on Saturday, I think. It's not the individual run that matters, but the cycle as a whole. As for the 4x2 - any chance that the treadmill is off?
++++
My week: 52 miles, 16 "miles" pool-running, and other stuff. Returned to the track on Friday (25 degrees and a 20 MPH wind made for a frigid re-entry - was very tempting to sleep in), so I guess I'm now serious about training again.
We got a decent amount of snow starting Saturday night, so I reworked things to make Sunday a non-running day. I'd usually do tempo on Friday, 10-12 very easy on Saturday, and then a progressive long run on Sunday, but I pivoted to an easy double on Saturday. Sunday I managed to find a pool that was open (many were closed because of the snow) and just played with drills and stuff for about an hour.
M: Yoga and 8 "miles" pool-runningT: 12 miles, including 8 Iwo Jima hill repeats (approx 2 minutes up, 90 second jog, 30 second stride, 60 second jog). Also leg strengthwork and recovery swimming.W: 8 miles very easy to yoga (9:24) , yoga, then another 4 miles very easy (8:59) plus drills/strides.Th: Upper body weights/core and 8 "miles" pool-runningF: 12 miles, including a 6400m tempo on the track in 26:28 (splits per 1600 were 6:42/6:40/6:38/6:28). Also leg strengthwork and recovery swimming.Sa: 10.5 miles very easy to yoga (8:44), drills/strides, yoga, and then another 5.5 miles very easy (8:40)Su: Upper body weights/core and swimming.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
JT looking good brother
fin i saw your LR on strava and was impressed
dark. Very solid
my week was kind of a flop with 2 URD s in a row due to
work which irritates me.
mon 7 with strides 8:15
tue URD
wed URD
thurs 10 with 2x15:00 at just under T power 6:10. Super flat WO
fri 7 8:15
sat 7 with strides 8:18
sun 18 as 12.5 easy then 30:00 marathon power (6:26)
HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04
JT- Nice balanced week. I wish I had the patience to take my medium runs at that speed. How do you keep yourself from speeding up?
Finbad- Nice week. Will your 7 yr old be running any 5ks or the likes?
Darkwave- What pace is your pool running? How do you convert?
One week left for me until official training for Boston. Only ran 43 miles this week due to known scheduling issues. Ran most of my runs at the wrong pace... maybe I need to really overdress to force myself to go slow in the cold? We got about an inch of snow where I'm at, and I managed to avoid any falls during a pretty tough trail race (about 1000 feet over 5 miles) which unfortunately fell in the middle of my long run.
Oh, my replacement pair of vaporfly 4% showed up, and my left foot again feels really awkward even just standing in them. Could it be my a pronation issue (I have ongoing PF in that foot)?
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
Finbad- Nice week. Will your 7 yr old be running any 5ks or the likes? Oh, my replacement pair of vaporfly 4% showed up, and my left foot again feels really awkward even just standing in them. Could it be my a pronation issue (I have ongoing PF in that foot)?
Hopefully, I'll take it easy and let her decide. We've got a junior Parkrun near us that is a 2k every Sunday morning, we've done that a few times.
How have you (and everyone else who's tried) found the fit on the vaporfly's? I've been told that they're a bit snug.
Finbad: Solid week and strong long run. Very nice you converted your daughter to running. I run occasionally with my son on Saturdays but he is not a morning person so usually it doesn't work out.
Darkwave: I like your consistency with the hill workouts. Do you do those throughout your training or just in the early phases? Nice job getting to the track in the cold conditions. I'd like to do my Q work on a track but it's a 15 min drive to the nearest one, and the treadmill usually wins during winter as a result.
Swim: I hear you on work getting in the way sometimes. Still a really strong long run which is a great way to end the week.
Sling: I wish I could say I was holding myself back on the easy days, but that is basically the speed my body sets for them. I do pay attention to HR on the easy days and try to keep it under 140. I've learned that, at least for me, there is nothing gained by running easy days fast. I try to keep them really easy, keep the Q workout really hard, and keep the long run pace honest (while factoring in hilliness, which will obviously slow things down).
I can't help you on your Vaporfly question, I'm one of the few who have not gotten those. I did recently get a pair of Reebok Floatride Run Fast Pros; they are super light (3.5 oz) and very comfortable. Only done a few treadmill workouts in them so far but they are great.
Sling, let me know if you have a goal time for Boston and also if you have any other races for the year. I will add you into the table on the first page.
RIP Milkman
DW - I think 16 weeks for a marathon is plenty. The problem is I will be taking 10 full days off in a row. So in reality, I'm going to need at least 2 weeks of those 16 to get back into the groove. I guess 14 weeks is enough training, I just have to be good about getting high mileage right before my vacation so I have a good base. I'm pretty sure I'm doing CIM. Great varied week by you as usual. Hope the shutdown isn't making things crazy in your neck of the woods.
Steve - Ha it's funny you say that. I actually like doing those other races so I can get out of Manhattan since all I do is run in CP. However, SI is a crap race for PRs. The hills are pretty tough. They need a race in the Rockaways, would sign up for that in a heartbeat. Does NYCRuns do anything by you?
Madison - Thanks for the feedback. I signed up for the race, so here goes nothing.
JT - Your recovery is basically done and now you're in real training mode. Why do you not have a race in the interim on your schedule? I know you're not going 8 more months without racing!
Finbad - Good to see you back to more normal trainign levels.
Swim - Still a great week.
Sling - Metatarsalgia is completely gone after taking 12 days off for my PTT. Glad to have finally gotten rid of it. Hope yours is doing well.
Mikkey - You've been putting in some good work lately! Hopefully the fire is back.
Me - building back up in mileage. Was happy to get in 13 yesterday, which isn't long in the grand scheme of marathon training but was a major checkpoint on the way back from my PTT. I'm following the plan I always do after injuries/extended time off, which is that it should take you as many days of easy running to get back as days you took off. So for me, that would be about 12 days of easy running. I'm going to run a few more easy runs early in the week and then try to get in a quality day on Friday at MP, figuring that's the least stressful of all paces outside of E. If that goes well with no real soreness, then I'm back to a full training load next week. I've had nothing beyond a 1 out of 10 pain when running, so I think I can keep ramping up. It's definitely still achy just walking around and I have to stay on top of it with icing, massage, and all my exercises.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
JT - Yup, a lot of good components in your week there. I like having the same ones in mine, when I can: a workout, plus MLR and a LR. The only difference is I try to squeeze the MLR and workout in to a single run so I can keep all the rest of the runs easy and shorter. It's been a while since I've managed to hit all of those components in a single week. Hopefully soon.
DW - That cold and windy has to be hard on the track. For me, I have an easier time hitting the track on hot and muggy days than I do on cold/windy/wet days. Good job sticking to it.
Finbad - Great looking week there. Looks like you'll get back to your old self just in time to get good and ready for Boston. My oldest is 7. I don't think he'd have much interest in running a weekly run with me. He remains quite active doing all kinds of sports, but running just to run isn't his idea of fun. That's awesome you've managed to get it to a weekly date.
JMac - One other point I've heard re: CIM v. Houston is that for Houston you've got big training weeks during Thanksgiving and Christmas, while CIM you're tapering during Thanksgiving. Depending on travel/family commitments, some find the scheduling of CIM to be better. But don't get me wrong. It'd be awesome if you decided on Houston. In fact, I think I'll run the full next year (after 4 years of doing the half). Next year will be my first Houston at 40, so it would be nice to give it a real go.
My week:
Mon Jan 07
6.01
8:24
Morning Run
Tue Jan 08
8.14
7:31
5x5min
Wed Jan 09
8.42
7:48
Thu Jan 10
8.12
8:08
Fri Jan 11
8.09
8:01
Sat Jan 12
16.52
7:14
Sun Jan 13
5.01
9:12
60.31
7:51
So somewhat early in the week I realized that my tentative plan of doing a marathon in late April or early May is not really possible. I currently have a trial scheduled on April 22, and unless there's still a shutdown, there's a decent chance that it'll go (two weeks), which means little if any running during that time. Can't really plan to run a marathon during that time or soon after, and beyond that it starts to get too hot. I'm kind of in scramble mode right now trying to figure out how quickly I can get in to marathon shape. The earliest I'd try would be for Austin or Galveston on February 17, and the latest is probably Knoxville in late March. Ideally I'd try to make the Woodlands on March 2 work. But that sounds like an extremely boring course even though it's a single loop and flat.
The weather for Houston this Sunday is looking great, but could be a bit windy. Sounds like the wind will be from the north, but not clear if it's more northeast or northwest. Northwest would be better since it means a little more headwind early when there are big crowds, and more tailwind at the end when it thins out. Last year there wasn't much wind, but it was northeast that was in your face most of the second half. They're predicting 15-20mph this year (compared to about 9 last year), so the direction will matter more. All things considered, I'd rather have a windy, sunny, dry and cold day over many of the other options we could get this time of year. I really wish I was in shape to be able to give it a strong showing. I'll go all out, but I'm not expecting much at this point.
Upcoming races: Boston
JMac - One other point I've heard re: CIM v. Houston is that for Houston you've got big training weeks during Thanksgiving and Christmas, while CIM you're tapering during Thanksgiving. Depending on travel/family commitments, some find the scheduling of CIM to be better.
I personally HATED tapering over Thanksgiving - especially since it meant skipping a turkey trot as too close. Thanksgiving is always 10 days out from CIM. I'd rather be in full training then. Of course, I only have a two hour drive each way for the holidays, so they aren't that tough on my training.
The weather for Houston this Sunday is looking great, but could be a bit windy. Sounds like the wind will be from the north, but not clear if it's more northeast or northwest. Northwest would be better since it means a little more headwind early when there are big crowds, and more tailwind at the end when it thins out. Last year there wasn't much wind, but it was northeast that was in your face most of the second half.
Yup - I did the Houston half last year, and I remember that wind. It wasn't bad at all, but was noticeable, and I would have preferred to have a headwind at the start and a tailwind for the finish.
Swim - I'd be annoyed too about the Work-URDS
Sling - I do 10 minutes of easy effort = 1 mile. Of course there is ultimately no equivalency, since they are two separate activities, but 10 minutes = 1 mile seems close enough and makes for easy math.
Finbad - I have a size 6 in both the original VFs and the flyknits (I normally wear 5.5 in unisex shoes, when I can find that size). In the original VFs, the size 6 was a bit loose and I have to wear thick smartwool socks to make it work; the size 6 flyknits fit like a glove with superthin socks.
JTReeves - I just do the hill workouts at the beginning of a cycle - part of easing back into it before shifting to the track. I like starting off with them because they force me to run with good powerful form - I can nip bad habits in the bud early in my training.
BTW, I also picked up the Floatride Runfast Pros - like you, I've done very little in them. I'm thinking they'll make a solid 5K and under shoe, though.
Jmac - the shutdown is making things VERY crazy. About half my friends are affected, and it's really changed the whole city. Imagine a city based on one massive factory, and that factory then furloughs all its employees, with no set time limit on the furlough. People are really stressed here, and it's the #1 topic of conversation. Plus all the inconveniences to runners from running routes being closed, bathrooms locked, etc.
I hope things continue to trend the right way for you!
***
Yoga and then 8 miles very easy (8:40) outside underneath the Whitehurst freeway. The Whitehurst freeway is an elevated highway a bit less than a mile long, with another street running underneath it. That lower street is very low traffic and mostly sheltered from the elements, so that's where one goes when the trails and sidewalks are challenging to run on due to ice/snow. (we've gotten 10 inches of snow in the last 36 hours) GPS signal doesn't work under the Whitehurst - I used to just run by time, but now I use my Stryd footpod to track distance.
Laura
JT: Agree with Fin that head is in right place, and you really did have solid week with the right components. Maybe I'm just a baby about them but 2 mile repeats are my least favorite, so good for you but man they feel like 20 miles to me.
Fin: Love that you can run with your 7yo. I look forward to that one day hopefully!
Darkwave: So I definitely can tell when I'm feeling more IN/serious about my training with some of the weather I get out in, nice work getting on the track in those conditions. How much snow did you guys end up getting down there over the weekend?
Swim: Still a solid week even with 2 URD's - but, I understand the frustration. How did the 2 quality sessions feel though, seems like they went well?
Sling: w/regard to running wrong pace, you mean just too fast on easy stuff? Like JT, I typically don't look at pace but instead HR for easy stuff. Not a slave to it but it does help me truly keep easy stuff easier...some days it's a bit faster and other days slower. I also use the mill for pace control when need be. Glad you had no falls in the snow though, and looks like you have nice base heading into Boston training! Can't comment on the 4% because I'm one of the few that hasn't jumped on board with those. Like Fin though I have heard they can be a bit snug.
JMac: I'm with you on the 13 mile check point in getting back into long runs....something about running that half distance feels like a sigh of okay, now it's coming. Mental more than anything, but I get it. Like the idea of keeping it easy and maybe throwing in some MP or even some steady state to ease into some work portion to make sure all systems are ready. Sounds like you are really staying on top of things though, that will pay off.
Andres: Solid 60 week- I say see how this weekend goes and where you land feeling mentally and physically and then see what you think is more reasonable for picking a full. You may surprise yourself, glad the weather is looking good even with some wind. See how Sunday goes and then use that as jumping off point for what races might fit best before that trial.
I had a decent week - can't really complain. A few less miles than planned but 64 is still higher end of base for me compared to past so I'll take it. My Daughter cut both canine teeth this week on top of being sick so we were on altered schedules all week with sleep and just going with the flow.
Wednesday was 12 x 2 minutes at T (6:07ish) w/30 seconds R (I used 8:00ish)- had to mill it for timing but got it done. Worked out to 4.7 at 6:25 avg, good way to make MP feel easier.
Saturday I had another of the Freezeroo series I'm in... 5 mile race. Ran it at MP (6:25ish) and then went back out shortly after the finish for 12 x 1 min on (5:25-45)/off which gave me 3.72 at 6:29 avg. It was a cold day and was layered to the nines so nice to be able to control and hit paces between the race/workout like that. I jokingly asked at the finish if anyone wanted to go out and do post-race speed with me and actually got a taker. He jumped in with me and nice to have company for it - running community is good like that.
Sunday was bitter cold breezy run around Irondequoit bay. Get good hills that way, and I had convinced 2 friends to run with me so that was good to have conversation to pass the cold ass 15 miles and friends to eat ALL the food with at the diner after.
Mon: 3 @ 9:00 (Was still feeling like I needed another recovery day from the half)
Tues: 7 @ 8:19
Wed: 11.7 w/12 x 2 min T/30 Sec recovery + Yoga/Core
Thurs: 7.2 @ 8:23
Fri: 8.5 @ 8:15 (wanted to run longer but decided to keep it easy for the weekend miles)
Sat: 12ish w/5 mile race at MP + 12 x 1 min on/off after
Sun: 15 hilly cold @ 8:12
Total: 64
Shooting for 70ish this week + be better about getting my strength work in.
Pre-Baby PR's (all from 2015): 5k: 18:46 10k: 38:37 HM: 1:24:51 FM: 2:58:13
Postpartum PR's: 5k: 18:18 (2018) HM: 1:21:14 (2019) FM: 2:57:02 (2019)
Next Up: Unsure - but most likely some solo TT's
{Strava}{IG}
JT: Great well rounded week and glad to see you ramping back up! Strong workout too!
Fin: Very strong week as well. Glad you are able to build back in some mileage.
Swim: Super solid LR. Don't think the URD's will hurt you all that much, but I certainly understand the feeling.
Sling: I struggle holding myself back on some EZ days myself. I usually feel like crap for a few miles and then end up progressing down as the miles go by. I imagine I'd do myself a favor at times holding back a bit.
JMac: Awesome news! Glad the foot is behaving so far. Nice looking week overall. I'm thinking you will be back to some strong workouts in the very near future.
Darkwave: Awesome job sticking with it in those conditions. Strong week!
Andres: Very solid looking week. Looking forward to see what you do at Houston. Always good to benchmark yourself no matter the fitness level. Good luck!
Lela: Yet another solid week and a good couple of race workouts!
Very happy with my latest week. Had some pretty strong high volume workouts even though the first set of hill repeats on Wednesday was a bit slower than I've run them before. Some of that was due to the wind, but my legs were feeling a bit rough on the first few reps. 2nd workout was on Saturday morning where I jumped into a local 5K (as a tempo) after a 8.5 warmup, chased down some young kids in the last mile of the race, and then finished it off with another 8+ EZ miles for a 20 mile day. Also got in another EZ day with hills so certainly got in my fair share off ups and downs this past week. Potentially looking at jumping into another HM in 13 days as the weather potentially looks good so looking at that opportunity. This will require a bit of a taper, but I'll decide by later this week
Weekly Summary Monday, Jan 07, 2019 thru Sunday, Jan 13, 2019
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
Jmac - excellent to be coming out the other side of the injury stuff, I feel like I'm there too.
Andres - Good looking week. I agree with Lela, I'd leave booking a race for a wee while if you can, sometimes fitness comes on really quickly
Lela - solid week. I totally agree about 2M repeats
Darkwave - 10 inches of snow - Ha! If we got that we'd give it a special name and I'd still be talking about it in 5 years time. I've got a similar place I go in the ice/snow - There is a tunnel under the river here that is about 800m long and has a 6% gradient up and down so you can do some decent workouts
Weather - great week again. Loving that tempo pace
DW - Yup, I agree that I'd prefer not to taper over Thanksgiving, almost entirely because of having to miss a Turkey Trot. Not sure why, but I seem to love running those. Also, I can imagine the craziness of the town in this situation. Nearly ten years ago the stress that came with the constant threat of shutdowns and furloughs along with the actual pay freezes was enough for me to bolt from my federal government job. Multiply that out with half of the city, it would be a depressing place to be around.
Lela - way to bounce back from the half! I know from your full last year that you're a really strong marathoner, but it still seems like a big leap to get down to 2:45. You might've already discussed this, so sorry if I missed it, but is this an ambitious goal that you'll hope to make feasible, but decide closer to the race if it makes sense, or is it all or nothing where 2:46 vs. a 3:10 blowup doesn't really matter?
Weatherboy - That run this morning was absolutely sick. I've been shocked by your workouts in the past, but watch you continue to improve by great amounts and stay injury free. But either you've taken another huge leap in your fitness, or you might be approaching a little too close to the sun. 10 miles total work in less than an hour with only 10min of recovery mixed in? That's kind of nuts. I really do hope it's that you've taken another huge leap and you finally time good marathon weather with your amazing fitness.
Lela/fin - I know you guys are right. I need to chill re: picking a marathon. Hopefully I'll do that.
Thanks Andres! As for this mornings tempo run this was the famous Daniels T pain train where he prescribes lots of tempo miles (4T + 4 min jog + 3T + 3 min jog + 2T + 2min jog + 1T). I believe JMac has something close to this one, but to truly run them all at your threshold pace is a bit nuts and what I consider closer to an elite level workout! Therefore, I actually chickened out a bit and ran the first 4 miles at perhaps a notch faster than MP (6:05-6:10ish and pacing my friend at his tempo pace) since I thought a total of 10 at my T was too much volume (plus why not save that for a race) and especially after my 20 miler on Saturday. I then proceeded to run the rest at closer to my threshold pace and just hammer the last mile with whatever I had left. Plus with the thought of jumping into a HM in about 12 days this would give me one last hard effort before backing off next week. I too hope I can sustain this level of training (without burnout or injury) going forward and eventually cap that off with some nicer conditions in a race as well.