Forums >Racing>2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread
Stotan Disciple
I also agree with you on updating the pace every mesocycle, though sometimes it may be appropriate to change paces prior. My college coach would wait to move your workout paces up a while even if you popped off one race. The idea is that if you can PR running that slower pace in workouts you likely have more fitness to gain training at that pace so there's not point moving it just yet. I think my biggest downfall my senior year of college is me and my training partner got way too carried away and were forcing the fast end of the range or quicker every workout regardless of how we felt and the weather. Faster isn't always better
These are very wise words from a young man and no matter your age we still make the mistakes. I tweaked my hamstring racing a training buddy during a hill sprint session. You would think I would have known better at 45YO. But that's exactly why I say hold even if you start popping of a PR or two. Its awesome to be seeing improvement on the least effort so even as they improve, I hold them until the next cycle. You're very insightful lots of kids go through the process and they just show up and do. They don't put any thought into What, Why and How. Very happy to see you understood what your coach was working at. Jack Daniels one good claim to fame is how many good coaches were actually his athletes at some point. Him and Joe Vigil were really good at that, phronesis they call it.
Thinking should be done first, before training begins.
Mother of Cats
No report from me as I don’t have the creative skills to make a race sound that interesting 😀
There are plenty of ways to make races interesting - most have a negative effect on your performance, though.... Nice job! I do think that lifetime mileage can carry one through a lower mileage training cycle.
Andres - great report and I'm so glad you enjoyed the race. I keep telling people - if you want to come to DC to run a race, do this one, rather than one of the marathons. You need to come back next year.
The slow people up front are because "seeded" runners get put right behind the male elites, and seeded runners include top runners from all age groups.
BTW, that big loop from mile 7 - 9.5 is Haines Point. I run there all the time - that's where I do my marathon pace workouts and good chunks of my long runs. There's a cross street that results in a loop of a bit over 3 miles in length, so you can just go around and around.
The mile marker thing annoyed me - this race usually does everything near flawlessly, so that was disappointing.
As for my time - I agree with you that I think I had a bit more in me on my best day. I think sometimes your body brings its A+ game, and other times it's A game. I had A rather than A+ yesterday. At least I ran a faster pace than the 8K last month.
[speaking of which, this year I've run a 5K in 6:15 pace, a 4 miler in 6:18 pace, an 8K in 6:19 pace, and now a 10 miler in 6:18 pace. So I should probably find a marathon to run soon....]
Nimmals - thanks for the link - interesting reading that I shall devour. I'm familiar with CV and Tinman to some extent, but am still trying to figure out where it fits into a broader training plan. BTW, if I don't jump into implementing it, it's because I'm a coached athlete, and at the end of the day, I need to do what my coach tells me to do, not what some smart guy on the internet suggests. But more knowledge is always good, as well as ideas for what to modify if I start to plateau.
Re: Boston. Go buy shoe covers on Amazon now - something like this. Worth their very light weight in gold last year.
As for jackets, after Boston 2018 I bought a light cycling raincoat - cyclists know how to dress for long workouts in the rain, and also think about wind resistance. I've worn that jacket for workouts in cold rain several times since, and it's awesome.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
RIP Milkman
I bought a super lightweight running jacket last fall after seeing what Boston was like last year, so glad I did. I paid up for it, but it served me well on my test run in rain. Question is always what to wear underneath a lightweight jacket, but I’ll cross that bridge as we get closer.
DW - just to be clear here, you got those for the starting village right? I was just going to wear an old pair of shoes with garbage bags over them, but this seems like a better solution and not too expensive.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
If it does end up sucking out I plan to stuff some gels/goos in my gloves
3K: 8:29.12 (2017) 5K: 14:56.59 (2016) 8K: 25:27 (2016) 15K: 53:46 (2022) HM: 75:41 (2022) FM: 2:43:17 (2022)
Fin - Happy to do the 3x1 workout but I think you're in better shape than me so I don't want to be slowing you down. Might make sense for us to do an easy run together instead on Thursday (going to do 7, with 5 of those miles in the park).
No, the 3x1 will be grand it'll be a few seconds either way which doesn't matter at this stage, it's just practice. Thanks for the ego boost though. I'm heading up to Newport on Thursday morning anyway (I am definitely more nervous about driving a hire car out of New York on the wrong side of the road than I am about the race)
Possibly I'm in denial but surely the weather looks not too bad? Better be OK, I trusted our weather sage jmac and left my tights at home
Upcoming; 14th Sep Scottish veterans XC trials, 289th Sep Great Scottish Run 1/2, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k
Looks like my jacket is Nike 728257 which is a very lightweight polyester material. Will also have to decide what to wear underneath especially if temperatures are barely 40 with wind. Thanks for the link on shoe covers as I might have to look into those. Last year I wore a pair of throw away shoes and covered them with bags and then changed into new dry socks and shoes just before race time. Oh and definitely use vasoline everywhere!
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
No, the 3x1 will be grand it'll be a few seconds either way which doesn't matter at this stage, it's just practice. Thanks for the ego boost though. I'm heading up to Newport on Thursday morning anyway (I am definitely more nervous about driving a hire car out of New York on the wrong side of the road than I am about the race) Possibly I'm in denial but surely the weather looks not too bad? Better be OK, I trusted our weather sage jmac and left my tights at home
We have a weather expert on the thread and you trusted me? Well you better get ready because it's going to be literally the opposite of what I predicted.
Weather - whats going on with this storm? Looks like something forming over the pacific and moving west, or will it be a classic noreaster? As Mikkey said I trust you over anything else.
For folks that ran last year, let us know of any advice you had. Obviously it's way too early to lock in but I'm heading up to Boston on Friday so will have to pack for a multitude of conditions. I ordered those fisherman gloves, plus half tights, based off of last year's recommendations but other thoughts are welcome (Thanks dw already) !
I'm going to be lazy/efficient/self-promotional and link to two blog posts. One is my race report from last year, which includes details of what I wore, timing, etc. The second is my lessons learned post.
https://wellimtryingtorun.blogspot.com/2018/04/race-report-boston-marathon-april-16.html
https://wellimtryingtorun.blogspot.com/2018/05/lessons-learned-boston-marathon-2018.html
Darkwave: thanks for that link - some good advice! I wore shorts over running tights last year. Need to rethink my gloves (probably a lost cause) and look at shoe covers too.
JMac: It is a piece of energy coming from the Southwest US that is forecast to strengthen over the Appalachians and move right along coast. How much it deepens will impact the magnitude of winds for us on Monday, but it is looking like a pretty a good headwind. If the timing of the low were to speed or slow down it would change the direction quite a bit though. Still quite a bit spread between various model solutions, but I would venture to guess that by tomorrow evening and certainly Thursday we will have a better idea.
Next question is how much does a very wet headwind of say 15-20 impact our goal paces. My guess is that it will turn into an effort day and I would still hope to be close to a PR or at the very least a Boston PB?
Found these hilarious and informational. I think you and I are kindred spirits when it comes to the being cold perspective. I'm going to try this whole fisherman's gloves over my gloves with hand warmers if it's raining, but even that will probably fail. I think as you put it, I'm not sure there's really a solution for folks like us.
I started packing my throwaway clothes as well (hooded sweathsirt, heat shit, fleece poncho from NYC) but your blog made me think I'll go even more. Will probably pick up a wool sweater at Goodwill before going to Boston (another helpful tip you had about everything being sold out in Boston!)
One question for you though, and it's something I've not really been able to grasp as a runner that does get very cold: what is the danger in "overheating?" I know the vast majority of people hate that feeling, but for folks like us that run so cold, is that a concern? I'm trying to figure out how sweating under a rain jacket would be worse from a cold perspective than not wearing a rain jacket at all. I think part of the idea is that you are creating more moisture, which gets cold, which then evaporates and makes you colder. But if that's all under a rain jacket, wouldn't you theoretically stay warmer?
ETA: Weather just saw your post since we posted at the same time. Whether it's raining or not, any sort of headwind is going to turn into an effort day for me. The biggest problem with that is that usually my effort detector is way off in miles 2-5 of a marathon, when it feels more like easy effort than marathon effort. Either way, with a good headwind, I think the old bronze standard of just getting a PR for us would be great.
So....I don't just run cold. I don't regulate temperature well in general, and am also very heat intolerant. So, for me, it's always a balance.
That being said, I think removing my poncho during Boston 2018 was a mistake. My worry was that when I started sweating, I'd just get soaked and then freeze. But, I got soaked anyway. I would have been better to be warm(er) and soaked.
One other tip that I didn't note in my blog. If your hotel is near the finish, I would seriously consider NOT checking stuff pre-race. My hotel was about a mile away from the finish, and it took me less time to get there post-race than it did to pick up my bag from bag check. They handed out decent ponchos at the finish line, and those were as good as anything to get me back to the hotel.
Does anyone know of any waterproof shoe cover that will fit a men's size 13?
I second the recommendation for shoe covers. The problem with throw away shoes is that they get soaked walking around and so your feet are freezing the whole time you're waiting. I had the covers and that allowed my feet to be totally dry. I had a full rain suit that covered me that I bought off of Amazon for like $15. Totally worth it. There's a picture of it on my Strava.
I'd get on the bus early, not late. Lots of people were wanting to time it such that they spent as little time as possible in the village. Seems smart. But good and dry spots under the tents filled up fast. Dan, Steve, Patrick and I were on a bus relatively early and were able to get a good spot that was sorta dry under a tent. Bring a tarp or something substantial to lay on the ground to sit on.
By far the worst part of last year was the rain. Yes, it was the combo of everything, but the rain made it absolutely miserable. Had it just been wind and cold, it would have slowed everything down, but I don't think you would have had nearly as epic of a day as you did without the down pours. Even if it was a light rain, it wouldn't have been as brutal. I don't remember where I got this, and Weatherboy can confirm if this is actually true or accurate, but I remember hearing something about how unusual it was to have that much rain with temps that low. The forecast for the temps this year seem a little higher, but still plenty low to be miserable if you get the same amount of rain.
I'm no forecaster, but I've spent plenty of time looking at weather forecasts. It seems to me predicting the exact moment it will be pouring rain is really, really difficult. It could very easily be that you all miss the rain (I truly hope you do). With that said, they some how predicted the rain window quite accurately with something like 4 days out from Boston last year. It seemed like it was on its peak of horribleness at the exact moment everyone was on the course. The forecasters kept saying that, and I just assumed the timing would be slightly off so we'd miss it on one side or the other. Nope.
Even with a strong head wind last year, it was far from even. There were certain miles that it felt terrible, and others were you didn't notice it as bad. I think you have to figure out a way to go by effort. No way you'll be able to just cut off a certain percent off of your expected splits and call that good.
Upcoming races: Boston
Despite the awful conditions last year, it did seem like there were some solid performances out there.
I wore a singlet, shorts, and two layers of gloves and hats. I was fine until the finish even though I had to stop 4 (4!) times to pee during the race. I was coming off an injury and ran as a fun run, but still it seemed fluids just went through me. Also, what really helped is I took a later bus which arrived around 9am. Definitely will not do gear check again. Give your warm dry clothes to anyone coming out to support/spectate during the race that you can meet after finishing.
Agree with Andres. Other thing that helped me was not sitting on the frozen ground at athletes village. I know standing isn't the best thing for over an hour, but (for me) sipping some coffee and standing under the tent worked out better seemed to help keep me somewhat warm
Andres: Did you have something similar to this from Amazon? https://www.amazon.com/Frogg-Toggs-Ultra-Lite2-Water-Resistant-Breathable/dp/B007X5XD4U/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=waterproof%2Brain%2Bsuit&qid=1554823433&s=prime-exclusive&sr=1-7-catcorr&th=1&psc=1