2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 399 times)

Nimmals


     

    No argument here.  Discussed it with my coach, and he noted that a) it wasn't a bad race by any means but b) I shouldn't be afraid to be more aggressive and go for it.

     

    I think some of this is just lingering from focusing on marathons so much last year - the same characteristics that lead to good marathons result in conservative 5Ks.  I need to play with different mindsets and stretching outside my comfort zones at this distance.

     

    See you already know. Yes, two different races two, different attitudes.

      Thanks for the tracking Finbad!

       

      I was crapping myself this morning and could barely tie my shoe laces up, worried about my lack of mileage!

       

      I was running for a charity in memory of a dear old friend who was into sport and fascinated about the Moose Mug and said that I should never give up on it. I think she was looking down on me today and my Moose Mug is for Sally.

       

      Congrats, man. That is really impressive work. Well done.

      Runners run.


      Elite Jogger

         

        Congrats, man. That is really impressive work. Well done.

        Thanks mikeymike...it would be great if you posted your bio and become a regular poster on here. I love your attitude. 👍

        5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:50:43 (2019)

        JTReeves


          Mikkey: Congrats again on a superb effort, and what a great way to pay tribute to your friend; she would be so proud.

           

          DW: I agree with the others that you have the PR in you, you just may need to deviate from your negative split strategy and crank that first mile in sub 6 min. Might be more painful in the end but will probably get you that fast time.

           

          Swim: Nice job on your half; you were really flying that last mile. And nice job surviving your encounter with Mick 

          5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

          Up next: Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)

            Thanks mikeymike...it would be great if you posted your bio and become a regular poster on here. I love your attitude. 👍

             

            <--- But my bio and running history are right there Smile

             

            No (current) plans for a sub-3 for me this year. Currently I'm just trying to hobble through Vermont City at the end of May in a safe BQ time, which, given my advanced age on next year's race day should be very doable despite my lack of anything resembling an actual marathon build up. Then I plan to some proper training over the summer targeted at cross country--but if things go well I could do the Cape Cod marathon in October for free to improve my seed, since that's the NE grand prix race.

            Runners run.

            Nimmals


              The race  yesterday was pretty encouraging.  I missed PR ing by 20 seconds and it was all due to not getting out hard enough.  I NS the front half to back half by nearly 90 seconds and I closed the last mile in 5:28.  Humble brag but that’s flat getting after it.  The one big thing about coming down from altitude is I feel like I can really lean on a race late which is what has led to the big negative splits.  I need to get out harder though.  I have some big goals for next December so we ll see how the development goes this summer.

               

              Swim nice job in the half, I hope you really listen to yourself and don't be afraid to get after it early. Yeah I know all the world records yada yada yada yada. But I run best when positive split save, conserve, save some for late.  That means i break a race into  3 or  4 parts. There is usually a lazy moment in there then a reapplication of pace. its so hard for me to keep a constant pace my stryd show it best I run three different races to make a whole and one isn't pretty. what work for the pros wont work for me. Just sharing my 2 cents there are many roads to Sears. Well they use to be before all the stores started closing. But the point is explore different ways.

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                 

                Swim nice job in the half, I hope you really listen to yourself and don't be afraid to get after it early. Yeah I know all the world records yada yada yada yada. But I run best when positive split save, conserve, save some for late.  That means i break a race into  3 or  4 parts. There is usually a lazy moment in there then a reapplication of pace. its so hard for me to keep a constant pace my stryd show it best I run three different races to make a whole and one isn't pretty. what work for the pros wont work for me. Just sharing my 2 cents there are many roads to Sears. Well they use to be before all the stores started closing. But the point is explore different ways.

                 

                Interesting - I run best when I hit a groove and hold it.  Basically, I'm horrible at downshifting - it doesn't work for me to go out hard and then pull back because I don't use any less energy when I pull back -  I just run slower for the same amount of discomfort.  So once I've hit a certain pace, my options are to hold it steady or go faster.  I'm sure this is why I find long blocks of marathon pace work easier than splitting it into smaller chunks - because slowing down and speeding up again sucks.

                 

                Related to this, I've never understood why people ease off the gas when they have a win or a time in hand.  Because, for me, slowing down doesn't reduce the effort, as odd as it sounds.  I'd rather keep pushing or increase so I can be done sooner and stop running.

                 

                [btw, none of the above statement is meant to argue that I shouldn't be going out harder in my 5Ks.....]

                 

                It's just fascinating that we all have such different engines.  While I like negative splits myself, I really can't argue that others have other strategies work better for them.  Just a matter of trial and error to see what works for you, along with a willingness to re-experiment from time to time.

                 

                If anyone cares - mystery woman from my 5K was inserted into the results as of today, so she was not a figment of my imagination or DQ'd.

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                Andres1045


                   

                  Interesting - I run best when I hit a groove and hold it.  Basically, I'm horrible at downshifting - it doesn't work for me to go out hard and then pull back because I don't use any less energy when I pull back -  I just run slower for the same amount of discomfort.  So once I've hit a certain pace, my options are to hold it steady or go faster.  I'm sure this is why I find long blocks of marathon pace work easier than splitting it into smaller chunks - because slowing down and speeding up again sucks.

                   

                  Related to this, I've never understood why people ease off the gas when they have a win or a time in hand.  Because, for me, slowing down doesn't reduce the effort, as odd as it sounds.  I'd rather keep pushing or increase so I can be done sooner and stop running.

                   

                  [btw, none of the above statement is meant to argue that I shouldn't be going out harder in my 5Ks.....]

                   

                  It's just fascinating that we all have such different engines.  While I like negative splits myself, I really can't argue that others have other strategies work better for them.  Just a matter of trial and error to see what works for you, along with a willingness to re-experiment from time to time.

                   

                  If anyone cares - mystery woman from my 5K was inserted into the results as of today, so she was not a figment of my imagination or DQ'd.

                  First off, I think your particular 5k this past weekend seems like it went perfect. You just went out and raced. Seems like the run went from some sort of time trial to deciding you were going to beat that other woman, and you won. Most of us don't really get to race like that, since there are always a ton of people that will beat us in a race. It seems like you judged her ability and how she was feeling and applied the exact strategy that you knew would be enough to win. But maybe I'm wrong and you just said "I'm going to run the fastest I can today, and hopefully that's enough." I just don't get the sense that is what you did.

                   

                  Also, I might be reading Slammin's comment a little differently.  I'll let him speak for himself, obviously, but I often have what I understand to be similar races (usually in 3 parts). I almost always start out strong and really focus on stride, breathing, mechanics and everything else. Then I drift off mentally because I get bored with having to concentrate so hard. Things often slip at that point. But if I've judged things well, I can usually get a little bit extra towards the end to focus again and run hard to finish. In 5k's in particular, I know the first mile will likely be the fastest. The second mile the slowest, and if it's going well, the last mile a little slower than the first, but not much.  For a half (assuming I'm well trained), I often can run the first 7 to 8 well, drift a little to 11, then pick it up to the end. But it's not a conscious decision like "hey slow down a little to save some for the end." So I'm never dropping down a gear intentionally.

                   

                  I've also tried going out slower in races. It doesn't seem to work for me as well.  But I have no doubt it does for others.

                  Upcoming races:  I dunno.

                  Nimmals


                    Andres Pretty much sums it up about why i d three parts i must admits sometimes the reason for the middle varies it might be boredom other times its a strategy, other times its fear. But most times its holding that harder effort scares me and I ease off to make sure I can run the last mile(s)  well enough.

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                      Andres - yes, that was how it went - entered planning on a time trial, swapped to racing tactically.  I wanted both the win and the fast time, but I valued the win more, so when I was faced with what I saw as a choice in priorities, I went with the strategy that maximized my chances of winning, (and was more in my comfort zone, to boot).

                       

                      As for the three part - isn't that how most people default to executing races?  Especially miles, where the third 400 is the slowest for most?  I think Alex Hutchinson had something in his book on that.

                       

                      But I can also see it being not just mental, but optimal for some.  The most obvious is a cross country race, where you surge to the front before the course narrows, and then recover and start racing.

                       

                      And...(and this is what I thought Nimmals was getting at) - I could see how some people had a gear that they could only use at the beginning of races, so why not use it there.  When some people prefer a front running style while others sit and kick, it's not just mental and it's not just training (though it is some of each).  It's also using up what your particular body can offer in the best way for you.

                       

                      We all are working with slightly different sets of tools, physiology wise, so we can't all answer the question the same way, is my thinking.

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


                      Feeling the growl again

                        Some fool convinced me it would be a great idea to run Boston together next year.  I'm a sucker for the race so I couldn't say no.  This means I need a qualifier, so I found the latest fall marathon possible within reasonable driving distance.  Said marathon also has a qualifier, so I need to run a half.  So I signed up for one next weekend on 2 weeks' notice.  I'm 80% confident I can hit the qualifier.

                         

                        Centuries and 30lb ago I was a 2:28 guy and my last marathon was a 2:46 tactical win 5 years ago.  I haven't run a race of any kind in 4 years.  My easy pace has gone from 6:40s to 8+, though I've currently brought that back down to 7:40s as I've been working on the running and weight since December which was rock bottom.

                         

                        I would love this to be a sub-3 but it will be a heavy lift.  I must actually become a runner again despite sciatic issue and still being in the job which was the root of hanging up the shoes in the first place.

                        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                         

                        I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

                         

                        M_M_C


                          This is a story arch I am very interested in watching unfold. Good luck!

                           

                          Some fool convinced me it would be a great idea to run Boston together next year.  I'm a sucker for the race so I couldn't say no.  This means I need a qualifier, so I found the latest fall marathon possible within reasonable driving distance.  Said marathon also has a qualifier, so I need to run a half.  So I signed up for one next weekend on 2 weeks' notice.  I'm 80% confident I can hit the qualifier.

                           

                          Centuries and 30lb ago I was a 2:28 guy and my last marathon was a 2:46 tactical win 5 years ago.  I haven't run a race of any kind in 4 years.  My easy pace has gone from 6:40s to 8+, though I've currently brought that back down to 7:40s as I've been working on the running and weight since December which was rock bottom.

                           

                          I would love this to be a sub-3 but it will be a heavy lift.  I must actually become a runner again despite sciatic issue and still being in the job which was the root of hanging up the shoes in the first place.

                          3K: 8:29.12 (2017)     5K: 14:56.59 (2016)     8K: 25:27 (2016)     15K: 54:46.2 (2019)     FM: 2:58:48 (2019)

                          JTReeves


                            spaniel: Welcome! You have an interesting history and given your previous speed and accomplishments you should be able to get to sub 3 if you can avoid injury. How serious is the sciatica?

                             

                            BTW, I like the "Crusher of Treadmills" designation .

                            5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

                            Up next: Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)


                            Feeling the growl again

                              spaniel: Welcome! You have an interesting history and given your previous speed and accomplishments you should be able to get to sub 3 if you can avoid injury. How serious is the sciatica?

                               

                              BTW, I like the "Crusher of Treadmills" designation .

                               

                              It spikes when I sit too much and don't run enough...goes from just annoying to barely being able to walk for a few days.  Not very predictable.

                               

                              I crushed the fourth treadmill in 11 years a few months back...but a Landice took its place so I hope that is in the past.

                              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                               

                              I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

                               

                              JMac11


                                Spaniel - would love to hear more about your background and bio if possible (see the first page of this thread for examples). You've got some good talent!

                                 

                                Vaporfly Question - what's the shortest distance you've raced in them and been comfortable? I'm definitely not running a 5K in them, and the half you obviously would, but what about something like a 10K? Seems like an awkward distance and I'm not sure if the VF makes sense or something more like a 5K shoe. I was checking out the UAE 10K photos in Central Park this past weekend and noticed a mix of VF's and LTs on the pros.

                                5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                                 

                                Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19)