Forums >Racing>2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread
RIP Milkman
Andres / DW - thanks for challenging the premise! The reason why I want to keep my mileage around 65-70 is that I’d like to get up in the 80 MPW range for my next cycle. In order to do that, I feel that I need to keep my mileage up in the summer. If I run 40-50 MPW like I would for a traditional 5K cycle, I feel that I am just PRIME to injure myself trying to get up to 80 for CIM. I don’t feel that I’ve reached my true potential running 60-65 MPW for marathons. Regarding a reset: I will be taking 9 straight days off after this summer, which should help before starting up my marathon cycle
Steve - what do you do for Sunday races? Get your long in Monday? Or do you handle those races differently? Also, why do you think the normal rest schedule of 3K or so per K of race doesn’t apply for a 5K, or do you not view a long run as a “quality” day
Mike - Thanks for posting. I enjoyed your thread and journey, I can’t imagine what you must have felt breaking 17. Anyway, seems like you confirmed Steve’s schedule of doing a long run after a 5K and didn’t notice it hurting you.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
powered by plants
If Sunday is a race (which I hate), then no LR that week. Maybe I'll do an extra long cool down. After UAE I was supposed to do an extra lap of the park...I didn't, but I was supposed to. Of course, if the race is a half marathon, with warm and cool it amounts to a LR distance anyway.
5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)
*downhill AF
Following up on JMac's discussion for those not really targeting any key races (for me it is far too hot here to go fast) what kind of summer base mileage do you plan on running?
After a bit of a reset this week (hey I've forced myself to actually just run 15.6 through 3+ days - lol) and next week (easy mileage with no workouts) thinking I'll climb back into the 60/70 range and then stay there for most of the summer. Most of this mileage will be easy, but I certainly need some kind of short workout regime to not be bored to death so thinking of mostly short tempos (alternating between mile repeats and 20 min type stuff) and then the occasional rep type stuff (200/300/400 to 800's) for turnover every so often. If my next marathon will be in mid-December will then have to get serious come early September. Also not sure I'll need a full 18 week block this time either
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
Mother of Cats
Andres / DW - thanks for challenging the premise! The reason why I want to keep my mileage around 65-70 is that I’d like to get up in the 80 MPW range for my next cycle. In order to do that, I feel that I need to keep my mileage up in the summer. If I run 40-50 MPW like I would for a traditional 5K cycle, I feel that I am just PRIME to injure myself trying to get up to 80 for CIM.
That does make sense - that's why I usually stay at a decent mileage (55-60) year round.
However, I do think that front-loading your weeks or tacking on a lot of miles post race can also lead to injury - perhaps it would be best to only race every 3 weeks or so; keep the mileage high the other weeks.
Weatherboy - I kinda answered your questions already - I usually stick to 55-60 in non-marathon training, except during race weeks. I'll be racing primarily road miles in the time between my June half-marathon and starting to ramp up for my November marathon, so that will result in some down weeks.
I honestly don't focus TOO much on weekly mileage. Instead, I just have the following basic schedule that I stick with unless I have to modify for a race or some other reason. The volumes change, but the rhythm is the same. When training for marathons, I back off on the paces for the Tuesday workout; when focusing on shorter stuff, Tuesday becomes much more important (and Sunday much less).
That schedule is:
Monday - yoga and 6-8 miles of pool-running (6 if marathon training with a Sunday long run; 8 otherwise)
Tuesday - 12 miles , including an interval workout of some sort.
Wednesday - double totaling to 12 miles, all very easy, with a yoga class in between.
Thursday - upper body weights/core and 8-12 miles of pool-running (10-12 if marathon training, 8 otherwise)
Friday - 12 miles, including a tempo workout of some sort.
Saturday - 10-12 miles very easy, plus upper body weights/core
Sunday - anywhere from 12-22 miles - usually as a progression, though can be modified (i.e. 2x5 at MP). Obviously the longer runs are during marathon training.
This gets me 55-60 during non-marathon training, and 65-70 during marathon training.
[edit to add: those weekly mileage totals do NOT include my pool-running. And they're also on 5 days a week, which is very different from the same mileage divided across 7 days. I have tried the same mileage split more evenly across 6-7 days, but I respond much better and feel fresher when I do the same mileage on fewer days, with the two pool-running days inserted.]
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
JT: you were in frickin Austria?!! NICE!! Sounds like you had a good balance of running and beer in Vienna! You should have no regrets! And yeah - another thing I had hoped for from Vancouver was to not require much recovery. I just wanted to finish, hopefully something solid, and if the first two accomplished - best case scenario - not immobilize me for too long... Check!
Talus - that sounds terribly painful
Weatherboy: I like your thoughts on 20 min tempos, mile repeats, and shorter rep stuff with maintaining decent mileage in the heat. Totally manageable in the heat - still pace and recovery adjusted though - sounds good. I don't see your goal marathon on p1 (mid-December you said?) which one?
JMac: looks like you got a lot of feedback - it is fun to think of potential with higher mileage no doubt! And after 5k/10k focus - good stuff.
So the other reason why I had the results corrected was because the previously listed 3rd place Masters had 1) asked me at the start if I was the 2:42-er Master. I replied 'do I look like I am?!' I didn't mean to give attitude but it probably came out. She was just bothering me with questions of where I'm from and whatnot which I wasn't in the mood for. And 2) asked to share my first water bottle - which I did - and I never heard her say thank you. wtf. Maybe she did and I just didn't hear it. Not sure if she missed hers or what the deal was.
Cinnamon: I haven't officially committed to any fall races just yet, but currently thinking of Jacksonville in mid-Decemeber. Challenge will be at the beginning of the training cycle since our summer like conditions usually last until mid to late October (or later). Also like the idea of a tune-up half at some point in early November if the weather allows.
Mmmm Bop
Yeah right. 😁
Good luck weekend racers. 👍
Update from Ray....Moose Mug has been shipped and on its way to the UK. 😁
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Weatherboy: I like your thoughts on 20 min tempos, mile repeats, and shorter rep stuff with maintaining decent mileage in the heat. Totally manageable in the heat - still pace and recovery adjusted though - sounds good.
I can think of nothing worse during the summer than tempos and mile repeats.
My take on rest aligns to how much specificity one has in a given training block. I paid the price by way of stress fracture a few years ago by jumping back into high intensity training soon after an 18 week block. With much shorter duration marathon specific blocks (e.g. 6 weeks), the amount of rest required post "A" race can be substantially less without increasing risk of injury. I think it's a good, but not obvious, guiding principal.
I'm also a (new) believer in taking one rest day per week (or at minimum once per two weeks). I've reached new levels of fitness by running less and focusing on running economy than volume. I think taking that rest day and allowing the body to rest and recover will see more gains over time than an easy 60-75 minute run for most athletes. Plus, who doesn't love sleeping in a bit on a weekday?
Brief update on my training post Boston. I've run some, traveled some, and ate A LOT. Always a good formula for a PR
Hah. We always break stuff up once it gets hot - tempos become 2x3200; we try to keep intervals to 1200m or shorter, and don't worry if the rest gets a bit longer. Or we just do untimed hills.
I think that in some ways, it's a subtle benefit of living in an area that has different seasons - we have to mix it up since we can't train the same way year round. When it's 20 degrees or colder, you really can't do short fast stuff very well; and when the dew point is 70 or higher, you can't do long tempos and mile repeats. So we have periodization built into our year out of necessity.
Jmac - have a great race tomorrow!
Madison - good luck at Green Bay!
JTReeves, when you get a chance after this weekend's races, could you please update the first page to:
a) show that my goal for Broad Street was sub-63 (like it was for Cherry Blossom) - I want some credit for hitting my goal.
b) add these two races for me: Columbus Half-Marathon (October 20, goal TBD) and Indianapolis Monumental Marathon (November 9, goal sub-2:55)
+1 on that jayluf. Good to give the body time to absorb the training.
DW: Table is updated. I like your marathon goal; very realistic that you will get that.
JMac and Madison: Good luck this weekend!
2:52:16 (2018)
I’m trying to remember who you are???
Thanks for the well wishes. I have bib #8 in case people are interested in tracking. I feel ready but the forecast (lows 40s, 15 mph wind, 100% chance of rain) has me debating what to wear and my race plan. With rain this cold I'm thinking that I will start with hat/gloves/shirt and toss those once they are soaked or once I warm up enough. I'm also thinking I won't wear a watch as it might be more prudent to run by feel then try to hit splits.
Green Bay marathon cancelled due to flooding I see. Option to run half available. Well that stinks!
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
Looks like Madison opted for the half; 1:13:57 unofficial time. Awesome job! Curious to hear what the weather situation was like. It's interesting they cancelled the full but let the half proceed.