2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 403 times)

weatherboy80


    Hope everyone is staying warm!  We even got down below 40 here this morning.

     

    JMac:  Have to agree with others that you should be shooting for something well under 1:20 (or even 1:17-18) with a couple of solid workouts leading into it!  Looks like you are really not that far off either looking at your big 10 at MP workout!  Either way glad your foot is behaving.

     

    Andres: Solid result regardless and always good to benchmark your fitness.

     

    Swim:  Big week yet again.  Like that quality in the 2nd half of your LR!

     

    JT:  Big consistent looking week again and certainly looks like you are solidly on your way back up!  Great dedication to hammer those workouts and LR's on the treadmill, but can't imagine running in sub zero temps though.

     

    Madison: Big week and a very nice sub 6 at marathon pace!

     

    Fin:  Solid week and I like your HM goal!  As for the workout I would suggest scaling it by time since I just ran that exact same one last week.  Something like 20min, 15, 10, 5 etc ...  I chickened out from running the first 4 at my true threshold since that workout scared me a bit.  If I were to try it again I almost feel like I need to taper a bit into it instead of running 12 the day before!  I ended up running the first 4 at uptempo or close to my dream MP and then progressed down to threshold and eventually hammered the last mile.


    Lela:  Awesome week and really like those quality days as well.  Big congrats on getting in that kind of volume again!


    Dark:  Solid looking week!  Nice race and way to regroup after the false finish line!


    Sling: Glad the foot is behaving.

     

    Me: Cut back the overall volume (down from 86 last week) and eliminated any real speed/quality from my LR on Saturday in order to start a mini-taper for a HM on the upcoming Sunday.  I mentioned my first Q day above in my response to Fin, but that was supposed to be the famous Daniels T pain train.  Still a big workout for sure, but I took it a bit easier on the first 4 to ensure I completed the rest of the workout.  Then ran a nice steady 16 miler on Saturday with some of the most climbing I've done yet this cycle.  Will do that a few more times before Boston.

     

    Like I mentioned going to jump into a half this weekend in Orlando to benchmark fitness yet again.  Have a few more recent miles in my legs compared to my fully tapered 1:17 HM in December so we shall see what I can do.  Weather was looking extremely epic a few days ago, but some of the models have backed off slightly on the magnitude of the cold air for us (typical).  Latest forecast still has race temps in the mid 50's, which for me is still awesome, but will watch that warming trend as the week progresses.  With that said I'm still inclined to taper back the rest of the week and give it a go!

     

    Weekly Summary
    Monday, Jan 14, 2019 thru Sunday, Jan 20, 2019

    <tfoot> </tfoot>
    Day Miles Pace Description Link
    Mon 12.2 7:34 Feeling like a Monday strava
    Tue 3.2 8:48 Warm up with Jen & Jon strava
    Tue 11.1 6:10 4 uptempo + 3T + 2T + 1 hard strava
    Tue 2.1 8:24 Cool down for 16+ strava
    Wed 13.2 7:36 Just felt like runnin strava
    Thu 11.1 7:39 Testing out new headphones and then some EZ miles with Jonathon and Dina! strava
    Fri 6.2 7:23 EZ + 11 strides strava
    Sat 16.3 7:42 Look a LR with hills 🏔 strava
    Sun 5.1 7:14 Blown away 💨 strava
      80.5 7:28    

    5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)

    steve_


    powered by plants

      Nice weeks everyone.  I'm happy to see so many folks here employing the "easy days easy, hard days hard" concept in their training.  Andres, good half, gotta start somewhere, right?  Weather, smart week!

       

      I had what was supposed to be my peak winter race yesterday.  The weather (as I'm sure many of you are aware) was brutal here.  It was in the upper 30s and rainy the whole race.  Basically the same as Boston.  I ran an evenly paced 1:22:42.  I'm not one to complain (yes I am) but I'm getting a bit tired of these halfs where you start lapping runners at 5 miles.  The entire second half of the race I was running on the far outside of the road.  Just like last year GPS was in excess of 13.2.  Very frustrating.  Either way, I ran 40 seconds faster than I did last year in perfect conditions.  This week is a cutback to try to get rid of all the little aches I've been dealing with over the last few.

       

      Also, I figure I'll ask this here...anyone have advice on running strollers?  We're expecting our first in July and I want something good.  Preferably where the car seat can attach and then go to a traditional stroller too.  This is all very new to me.  Cats don't need things like this, but I guess mini humans do.

      5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)

      *downhill AF

      Andres1045


        Steve - that weather suuuuuuuuucks. Not much of that race sounds like it was set up for fast running. As far as running strollers go, we went with one that had a fixed front wheel (Bob Ironman, I think). It had an adapter for a car seat that you bought separately. The complaint about it is that's not a great stroller for non-running.

        Upcoming races:  I dunno.

        madisonrunner


          Madison - Any chance you'd be willing to put up your weeks? It would be cool to see how you structure them and for us to get a relative idea of what the easier days look like compared to the workouts.

           Andres - My log's open so feel free to peruse.  I've just been posting the weekly mileage and major workouts since everything else is just an easy run.  I run to/from work (~5.5 miles each way) so I have a ton of 5.5 mile runs, a weekend long run, and then whatever else Pfitz calls for in terms of workouts and mid-week long runs (which I do to work).  I'm doing the 12 week, 85+ mileage plan from his 2nd edition book.  For easy (and mid-week long) days I don't have a pace I shoot for.  I just run easy which is usually 7:30 - 8:30 per mile.  Most weeks I get the mileage done in 6 days so I have Sunday off.  But for some of the very high mileage weeks this cycle (up to 105) I am planning to run all 7 days.

           

          I had a monster workout today - 5 mile LAT in 27:07.  My goal pace was 27:30 but I did this indoors and didn't know exactly how that would impact the pace.  I've done enough LATs that I know the pace pretty well and this felt right.

          Marathon PR:  2:35:49 (2019)  Goal Race:  TBD

          JTReeves


            Steve: Congrats on the little one on the way! That's great news. Can't help re the stroller as I was not running when our son was born but I think Lela can give you some expert advice. And nice grit to get out and run a half in that weather. Most people would DNS conditions like that.

             

            Madison: Great start to your cycle! It is very reassuring to see a runner of your caliber doing easy runs at 7:30-8:30 pace. Incredible LAT pace!  When you say it was indoors was that a standard 200m track?  I've been kicking around the idea of getting a membership this winter at a local club with a nice indoor track, so I can do some of my Q workouts there when the weather is awful outside like now.

             

            Weather: Epic week with that 4-3-2-1 workout. Even with the first 4 being a bit slower than your T pace it is still a monster workout. I hope the temps hold to the 50s for your half!

             

            Andres: An 83 half is a great starting point, especially with your relatively light training so far. Stay positive and stick with it and you'll set yourself up well for a big marathon PR this year.

             

            Lela: Nice big mileage week for you, and good that you felt you could do more. I agree regarding the hills; I think it is better to have a mix of short. faster reps and slower longer ones. I'll start adding in the former. I also sympathize re the treadmill; hard to get motivated to run outside in single digit temps with windchills in the -20 range, but the mill always has nice weather!

             

            Darkwave: Nice 5k and I like the 800 repeats. Do you ever resort to a treadmill?

             

            Swim: Strong week and that's a blistering 5k power pace. Nice variety to put those paces into a long run.

            5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

            Up next: Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)

            Swim5599


              JMac - I'm with Finbad. 1:20 is weak. And more importantly, would likely indicate that a PR is questionable at Boston, much less the close to 2:40 goal. I get that it's smarter to see what comes as you get closer to the race, and you're coming off of an injury at the moment, but I'd think that if you treat it like a real race (not some harder than normal workout), you'd at least be in the low 1:18s, and that's assuming the course is ~30s harder than normal.

               

              Finbad - As opposed to scaling to time, you could think about backing off the pace a bit.  What about doing it at GMP minus 10s or so? Also, I love the HM goal.  That would certainly require you to go for 2:40 if not lower at Boston if you got that!

               

              JT - I'm still shocked each time I see a long run on the treadmill. I've only done a 19 miler on the treadmill once, and that was because it was August in Houston and I wanted to try to get 10@mp in.  That was one of the hardest things I've done in running, to date.  Great looking week!

               

              Swim - Back to the good quality weeks! I like it. Do you plan to keep the mileage normal or so until it's time to start working towards CIM?

               

              Madison - Any chance you'd be willing to put up your weeks? It would be cool to see how you structure them and for us to get a relative idea of what the easier days look like compared to the workouts.

               

              DW - Great week! Good amount of high end speed stuff with both the 5k and the ~8x800 at 5kish.  Will you keep doing some shorter stuff until Cherry Blossom? I really wanted to try to do Cherry Blossom this year as it's on my 40th birthday. Didn't really get around to signing up though.

               

              Lela - Geez, you really go after it on the weekends. Impressive stuff.

               

              My week:

              Date Distance Pace Comment  

               Mon Jan 14 

                6.01 

               8:55 

               Morning Run 

               strava 

               Tue Jan 15 

                8.09 

               7:44 

               5x4min, 1min recovery 

               strava 

               Wed Jan 16 

                6.00 

               8:36 

               Morning Run 

               strava 

               Fri Jan 18 

                6.01 

               8:16 

               Morning Run 

               strava 

               Sat Jan 19 

                3.59 

               8:14 

               Morning Run 

               strava 

               Sun Jan 20 

                13.15 

               6:19 

               Whatevs 

               strava 

               

              I had the Houston half yesterday which end up being great weather. I was kind of disappointed about it, but as some mentioned on Strava, this is probably a good starting point (or as good as I should expect) for the year. I do think I'm finally able to absorb a more intense amount of training for the first time since March of 2016. So that's something to look forward to. Earlier in the week I was sure that anything under 1:24 would be great. But as I starting look closer at the weather, and felt good, I convinced myself that I could get under 1:22.  I still thought that was realistic until about mile 8 where things fell apart a bit. I tried my best to hold on, but time just kept slipping away. The good part about not having the ability to push fully for the entire half is that my legs feel totally fine today. Just feel like I did a workout yesterday.

              We will start up the double WO days in a couple weeks which will  get the mileage back up there a bit.  Have a 10k I’m running in Phoenix in a few weeks and the goal spring race is the Eugene Half the end of April where I think I can probably run 1:17 mid or so.  Hope to take a stab at something really special next December though.

              HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04

              Andres1045


                Finbad - Yup. We should instantly become a lot wiser. We will be masters, after all.

                 

                Lela - Yes, the wind was a little stronger than it was predicted to be from the start. And it picked up until around 8:30-9, before calming down. So by the time we hit Montrose (miles 8.5-11 that head directly north), there were some nasty gusts. I remember passing one building as a gust whipped around it and I felt like I was standing still. But even with that, I somehow slowed down more than I should. I always do on that stretch, which is odd. The last mile of the stretch I pass my house where my wife and kids are hanging out, and then after that it's a gradual decline. Both of those things give me a boost, but they don't seem to help my splits. I usually struggle to pick it up until I hit Allen Parkway at the 11 mile marker.  Oh well.

                 

                Madison - I'll try and check out the log. I set up an semi automatic upload from Garmin or Strava to this log, but I've never really looked at mine or others.  Are you on Strava?

                Upcoming races:  I dunno.

                Andres1045


                   

                  Andres: An 83 half is a great starting point, especially with your relatively light training so far. Stay positive and stick with it and you'll set yourself up well for a big marathon PR this year.

                  Thanks for the encouragement. Despite my whining, I'm actually quite optimistic about this year. Not sure I'll get a marathon PR in this calendar year, as I'll try to squeeze one in quite soon. If I feel like I'm in close to sub3 shape, I'll go for it that first weekend of March. But I am hoping to keep it going and run some faster times in shorter stuff, and then be ready for the Houston full come January 2020.

                  Upcoming races:  I dunno.

                  JMac11


                    Andres - Glad you have some good perspective here. It's always frustrating to be slower than our PRs but I'm glad you know that you're only really starting off here. Key for you this is year is consistency. If you can get in 2000 miles this year, I expect big things in Houston in 12 months time.

                     

                    Steve - weather has really been a shitstorm with that cold rain followed by these brutal sub 15 degree mornings. Yesterday was the coldest I've felt on a run in a long time with that wind. One of those runs where no amount of clothing was going to keep you warm enough for the first few miles. Anyway you have a legit beef with NYRR, might be worth writing a note to them just to add to the voices of people complaining about lapping runners. I wonder what the sub-elite guys upfront are doing. Maybe the lead vehicle clears the slow folks out of the way. Also congrats on the baby.

                     

                    Weather - love that 80 is a cutback week for you now. Sounds like you're really going for it at the half with the tapering you're doing. If you get that 55 degree weather, it's PR time for you.

                     

                    Fin/Andres - my goal is sub 1:20 just because I think that's where my fitness is right now with this injury. I have almost 2 months to improve that, but I'm still in such an unknown status with how the ankle will respond to picked up paces. Anyway, I'm definitely taking that NYC Half seriously with a mini-taper into it. I will certainly update that goal if I think my fitness is demonstrating I can do better once I get closer, not trying to sandbag here.

                     

                    Fin - Saw you got snowed on for your tempo run, was looking forward to it. I definitely do not run the 4T at true T pace, it's too fast. Maybe plus 5 or 10 seconds for that section, and I take a 4:40 break (1:10 per T). I'm going to try the easier version of that tonight: 3,2,1.

                     

                    Lela - very nice week, amazing your times given your lighter training normally. You do a great job of keeping your easy days easy, I try so hard with that but I can't really keep my paces slow.

                     

                    Me - got lazy this weekend on the treadmill and only ran 4 miles, so I effectively had 3 days off from running which is okay given my PTT. It's still pretty niggly which is frustrating that it's stagnated. We'll see how it responds this week to more normal marathon training: shooting for low 60s in mileage with 2 quality days. Balancing that fine line between pushing too hard and injuring myself vs. recognizing that I'm running out of time to get into PR shape for Boston. Feel like low 60s strikes that balance.

                    5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                     

                    Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 

                    jayluf


                      Hello everyone! I'm excited to join and be inspired by all of your running adventures ahead this year. I know many of you from the old Runner's World sub3 thread and/or Strava. For those I haven't met yet, hi! My name is Jason. I live in Washington DC and have been on a sub3 quest for about two years now. After taking a sabbatical to travel last summer, I decided to spice things up and hired David Roche as my coach. Really excited for the year ahead and have set some aggressive goals. Hope to run sub 2:55 at Boston, and then 2:45 at Berlin. I've also got two upcoming half marathons in Myrtle Beach on 3/2 and Shamrock VA Beach on 3/17. Cheers!

                      JMac11


                        Jay - welcome back!

                         

                        JT - you blamed me for stealing Piwi over to 1:30, let it be known that I recruited Jay back to this thread. So I'm good.

                        5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                         

                        Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 

                        JTReeves


                          Jayluf: Welcome back! Your training has been going great lately. I like the goals...I'll update the table on page 1 with them. You're in what seems like the majority here with having a coach. Looks like it is working well for you!

                           

                          JMac: You are forgiven for stealing Piwi away  I hope your leg is ok with the workouts this week.

                          5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

                          Up next: Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                            Hello everyone! I'm excited to join and be inspired by all of your running adventures ahead this year. I know many of you from the old Runner's World sub3 thread and/or Strava. For those I haven't met yet, hi! My name is Jason. I live in Washington DC and have been on a sub3 quest for about two years now. After taking a sabbatical to travel last summer, I decided to spice things up and hired David Roche as my coach. Really excited for the year ahead and have set some aggressive goals. Hope to run sub 2:55 at Boston, and then 2:45 at Berlin. I've also got two upcoming half marathons in Myrtle Beach on 3/2 and Shamrock VA Beach on 3/17. Cheers!

                             

                            Yay - welcome back!  I remember you form the old RWOL.  Glad to see you made it over!

                             

                            Andres - 1:23 wouldn't normally equate to sub-3 for you?  I'm a bit surprised by the reference to the 1:23, and then referring to if you are in sub-3 shape.

                             

                            As for turning 40, no wisdom magically accrues.  You just wake up and think "wow, that wasn't as bad as I thought."  And then you log into FB and realize all your targeted ads have changed....

                             

                            [it's worse when you turn 50 - my partner will be 52 this year, and the AARP junk mail just keeps coming.....]

                             

                            JTReeves - nope, don't do treadmills.  I have no issue with them, and used to run on them regularly before joining my team/coach.  But my coach really discourages them except for extreme weather, so I've gotten out of the habit.  I can't remember the last time I ran on one.

                             

                            And...that's how I ended up doing a track workout this morning in 12 degrees.  I was actually fine warmth wise after the first mile - I've figured out my personal magic combo of clothing.  This weather's harder on my coach than on the runners.

                             

                            [if you're interested, that combo is 1) running shoes taped over with KT tape, 2) ankle gaiters, 3) thin tights over compression shorts, 4) thick longsleeve under thin jacket, 5) snow boarding mittens with handwarmers, 6) neck gaiter, 7) double headband, and 8 )Vaseline on face.]

                             

                            The workout itself sucked - bodywarmth-wise I was fine, but just a really bad breathing day, triggered by the very dry air.  Ended up backing way off and just feeling my way through 4x1200 in 4:46, 4:58. 4:52, 4:49, sucking on the inhaler between reps.  Tempo pace, but hard interval effort.  Debated dropping, but felt it was better to back off and get something done, and my coach didn't disagree.

                             

                            I've run and raced better in this type of weather in the past - I'm thinking that being early in my cycle and not in my best shape probably was a bad combination with today's dry air.

                             

                            (BTW, sorry for the intermittent presence here - work's been quite busy, and will be for some time.  I'm very glad I'm not training for a spring marathon right now)

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            madisonrunner


                               

                              Also, I figure I'll ask this here...anyone have advice on running strollers?  We're expecting our first in July and I want something good.  Preferably where the car seat can attach and then go to a traditional stroller too.  This is all very new to me.  Cats don't need things like this, but I guess mini humans do.

                               

                              Steve - Congrats!  With a newborn/young son (and even before with a pregnant wife) I had to really schedule/plan my runs.  I think this made me significantly more consistent and led to me being much faster post child than pre.  It led to things like always running to/from work as that's how I get mileage in with as little family impact as possible.  I had a revolution BOB stroller.  The front wheel can be fixed in place (what I did while running) but otherwise was free to revolve.  We used it as our main stroller and worked very well.  You need to buy a carseat adapter to fit in the carseat.  I bought it new from REI with my end of year member bonus coupon.  I sold it once we no longer used it for a couple hundred dollars.  When looking at strollers we found that the Bobs really hold up well - used ones are pricey just like the new ones, but they work.  It is a big stroller so you'll also want a cheap umbrella stroller that is much more portable (but not for running).

                               

                               Madison: When you say it was indoors was that a standard 200m track?  I've been kicking around the idea of getting a membership this winter at a local club with a nice indoor track, so I can do some of my Q workouts there when the weather is awful outside like now..

                               

                              JT - It's a 200m track on the inside lane and lane 5 is 7 laps to a mile.  I ran the workout in lane 5.

                               

                              Andres - I'm not on Strava. I haven't had a desire to use it as the awesome running log here on runningahead.com is exactly what I'm looking for.

                              Marathon PR:  2:35:49 (2019)  Goal Race:  TBD

                                We're expecting our first in July 

                                 

                                Congrats!!