Forums >General Running>Running form assessed at Human Performance Lab
Chief Endurance Dork
So my new trail shoes felt quite a bit different when I first put them on and just like any normal human decided the only logical thing to do would be to head over to the local university's human performance lab and spend $$ and hours investigating further.
Normal right?
It was pretty fun. I ended up using some of the movement assessment software I use in my work (as a PT) and wrote up an article about it....
http://endurancenerd.com/altra-running-form/
There's also a part 1 where I review the shoes themselves
http://endurancenerd.com/altra-olympus-trail-shoe-review/
Enjoy.
endurancenerd.com
Nice article, sir! But it looks like your ancestors probably pushed and pulled things for a living, lol!
- Joe
We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.
But it looks like your ancestors probably pushed and pulled things for a living, lol!
That they did. ;-)
queen of headlamps
Oh, that's really cool! Thanks for sharing it.
Hey, another running blog.
Biomimeticist
So here's my question: What exactly did the new shoes do for you?
As someone who teaches elite human performance, the video shows your vertical lift remaining underneath the top line of the measuring grid as you're running. In the bottom video, your head clearly peaks in vertical lift above the grid line.
Measuring says that you're increasing your physical displacement, expending more energy in push off, as well as increasing the impact forces your body has to absorb upon ground contact.
In short, you've decreased your running economy for the same speed attainment.
Just what exactly are you trying to prove?
Experts said the world is flat
Experts said that man would never fly
Experts said we'd never go to the moon
Name me one of those "experts"...
History never remembers the name of experts; just the innovators who had the guts to challenge and prove the "experts" wrong
So here's my question: What exactly did the new shoes do for you? As someone who teaches elite human performance, the video shows your vertical lift remaining underneath the top line of the measuring grid as you're running. In the bottom video, your head clearly peaks in vertical lift above the grid line. Measuring says that you're increasing your physical displacement, expending more energy in push off, as well as increasing the impact forces your body has to absorb upon ground contact. In short, you've decreased your running economy for the same speed attainment. Just what exactly are you trying to prove?
Good question, sport jester, BUT.....
....don't forget that the treadmill I'm on is about 6-7 feet wide (they use it to test the cross country skiers too) so that grid is more than just a couple feet behind me, so any measurement I took from it wasn't absolute but a relative measurement either in relation to where I was in the old shoes or more importantly where I "started" in the movement in the new shoes.
When I use my software to measure distance on the video images, I'm not using the grid in the background, but rather I'm taking a known reference measurement in the same plane as my body -- the easiest solution was to use my right shoe since I can easily measure the length of it and it's in plane with me, it provides a good reference measurement
As you can see form the video and as I mention in the other part of the article, the new shoes have a sole on them that's over 2 cm taller than the older shoes. In effect I'm taller to begin with in the new shoes, so this accounts for the seemingly greater vertical displacement if you're only considering how high my head elevates to in the video. If you compare the total vertical displacement between the old and new shoes, they are nearly identical (114 mm old; 111 mm new) with a small potential improvement in the new shoes. I did take measurements in vertical displacement from the top of my head at first, but found that the hip/COG measurement was more repeatable and accurate.
"Just what exactly are you trying to prove?" -- Prove? Well......nothing really. Just thought it was interesting. I felt balanced very differently in the new shoes and decided to investigate if there were any measurable differences I could find between them in a controlled environment.
Feeling the growl again
Good question, sport jester, BUT..... ....don't forget that the treadmill I'm on is about 6-7 feet wide (they use it to test the cross country skiers too) so that grid is more than just a couple feet behind me, so any measurement I took from it wasn't absolute but a relative measurement either in relation to where I was in the old shoes or more importantly where I "started" in the movement in the new shoes. When I use my software to measure distance on the video images, I'm not using the grid in the background, but rather I'm taking a known reference measurement in the same plane as my body -- the easiest solution was to use my right shoe since I can easily measure the length of it and it's in plane with me, it provides a good reference measurement As you can see form the video and as I mention in the other part of the article, the new shoes have a sole on them that's over 2 cm taller than the older shoes. In effect I'm taller to begin with in the new shoes, so this accounts for the seemingly greater vertical displacement if you're only considering how high my head elevates to in the video. If you compare the total vertical displacement between the old and new shoes, they are nearly identical (114 mm old; 111 mm new) with a small potential improvement in the new shoes. I did take measurements in vertical displacement from the top of my head at first, but found that the hip/COG measurement was more repeatable and accurate. "Just what exactly are you trying to prove?" -- Prove? Well......nothing really. Just thought it was interesting. I felt balanced very differently in the new shoes and decided to investigate if there were any measurable differences I could find between them in a controlled environment.
Before you waste any more of your time, you need to take a look at this and this.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
Yikes. Noted.
Thank you, Spaniel.
And yet I train Navy SEALs and you don't
I teach Army Rangers and you don't
I've been published by the NSCA and you haven't
I teach orthopedic surgeons and you don't
Not to mention that I spent two years being tested and verified by Nike's sports research lab while you couldn't clean a toilet in any sports company could you?????
Finding critics of what I teach is easy. Finding someone with an education able to criticize me is impossible...
Please keep me laughing with what you call legitimate criticism.
You asked the question if there is a perfect running form. Well if you don't know what that looks like, then what do you really know about running to review any product.
What defines optimum running efficiency is measuring the runner who has no arm swing. If we swing our arms in counterbalance, then what's so out of balance we waste 13-15% of our total energy expenditure countering it?
Every running coach in the world will tell you how to swing your arms, yet I'm still waiting to meet the coach who can tell me why we swing them...
There are six biomechanically different running techniques documented to be used by humans around the world. Of them shoe wearing cultures are the least efficient documented. If you can't list them, then what do you know about running?
Oh, and if you want to look further, then how do the women of Kenya carry 20% of their bodyweight with no increase in energy expenditure to do so.
Why are African pygmies more economical runners than their Caucasian counterpart?
Why are the Aborigines documented to be faster runners than Usain Bolt?.
The answer is easy... They run to survive, you run to entertain yourself. And in the end, they all know more about running than you could ever dream of
Oh Princess.
runktrun
Could you show us an example of the proper running form? There are so many different videos available online now, it's tough to sort through and find the perfect form that you are talking about. And what are the six biomechanically different running techniques? I haven't heard mention of these distinct techniques before.
Not running for my health, but in spite of it.
Just a reminder...
http://www.hearn.to/jester-o-matic.html
Just a reminder... http://www.hearn.to/jester-o-matic.html
That is the best tool EVER!
Funny that Salazar is a more about running improved his hiking. The two require an athlete who offers it. Until you expect any better from responding to accomplish the accusations that my claim isn't true, have in an athlete who trains in trail running is usually a forefoot landing to my channel explaining T-Rex videos on the luxury to live in the masking tape exercise science of them as a forum is your stupidity is far beyond your challenge. While I fully accept criticism from following the advice and bested the NSCA pretty much flat and down stairs carrying at least someone here should stay in trail running is build a better definition of increased speed.
There's a reason for that!