HM & Marathon more popular because they're easier than the 5K? (Read 197 times)

 

Actually no. This was a garbage take. You think the top 5K runners in the world have the same training as the top marathon runners in the world? Or even for what I quoted. If I told you to go peak for a 5K, you’re going to train the same as if I told you to go peak for a marathon?

 

If you think they’re the same, just...yikes.

Basically. Definitely more similar than different. Obviously at the elite level where tiny differences separate the best athletes peaking for a specific event matters more. But the training elite 5k runners are doing is a he'll of a lot more similar to what elite marathoners are doing than to anything you or I are doing. People have run really good 5000m times on the track in the same season as a really good marathon. There was probably a period of time fairly recently when Mo Farrah was simultaneously the best 5000m runner and best marathoner in the UK.

And I ran my 5k PR at age 44 while trying to peak for a marathon so, yes, if you told me to go peak for a 5k that's what I'd do.

 

Basically. Definitely more similar than different. Obviously at the elite level where tiny differences separate the best athletes peaking for a specific event matters more. But the training elite 5k runners are doing is a he'll of a lot more similar to what elite marathoners are doing than to anything you or I are doing. People have run really good 5000m times on the track in the same season as a really good marathon. There was probably a period of time fairly recently when Mo Farrah was simultaneously the best 5000m runner and best marathoner in the UK.

 

And I ran my 5k PR at age 44 while trying to peak for a marathon so, yes, if you told me to go peak for a 5k that's what I'd do.

+1. There is this misconception that elite runners in shorter races (compared to marathons) are out there doing running crazy amounts of speed work in most work outs and most runs. The facts are that elite 5K runners are doing a hell of a lot of miles with most of those miles not being fast or true "speed work" miles. Clearly, there are differences in race specific work outs compared to marathon as race approaches but the aerobic foundation is still a key to fast 5K race times. AND as Mikey states, for most of us average runners not putting in the crazy elite high miles.....if we were to add 10, 15, 20 miles per week and train for a half or full marathon, our 5K race times would improve as well without any 5K race specific training. Why?? Because the 5K event is primarily an "aerobic" event.

Just cutting and pasting what is in the link in my last post.  This is not me talking below, I'm not that fast.

Keep it Simple, Yo! Distance training, from 5k to 50k 

Kara Goucher just won the Millrose Mile, running a strong 4:35, only a second or two off of her lifetime PR on an 11-lap to the mile board track. She also happens to be in marathon training, pounding out 90-100 mile weeks so that she can be in her best marathon shape by the end of April. I'm no Kara Goucher (in more ways than one), but I had a very similar experience this winter, running 3:51 for a hilly trail 50k a couple weeks before running 16:18 for 5k on a windy and hilly course. At first glance, this might seem strange. How is it that Goucher can be very near her peak shape in the mile while also shooting to be at her peak shape in the marathon? How is it that being in good shape for 50k means also being in good shape for 5k? The answer is simple: proper training for shorter events like the mile and the 5k is almost exactly the same (I'll talk about the minor differences, too) as proper training for longer events like the marathon and a trail 50k. Understanding why this is the case will help you understand how to train intelligently—for every distance. 

The Problem The reason why training for shorter events like the mile or 5k does not differ substantially from training for the longer events is because the problem that training is meant to solve is basically the same for all of these events. Many athletes make the mistake of thinking that what training is supposed to do is make them faster. It's no wonder: we're always talking about how we want our next race to be faster. How we want to run 5k faster, or 50k faster. Yes, of course, we do. But what limits your pace in endurance running is almost never your speed. What limits your pace is your ability to maintain your speed for the length of the event. Whoever runs a 5k faster will be able to sustain a speed closer to their top-end for longer. Watch the start of your local 5k. There will always be one or two young kids shooting off the front, but fading quickly. They've got plenty of speed, but no endurance. So, the problem of the mile: I can run 400 meters in 75 seconds. How can I train my body to hold that pace for 3 more laps? The problem of the marathon: I can run 10 miles at 7:00 per mile. How can I teach my body to hold that pace for 16 more miles. It is, essentially, the same problem. The problem of training is how to build endurance. The Solution Want to build endurance as a runner? Well, there's only one way, and it is simple: run a lot. The technical term for this is "build a base". That's what Goucher was doing at the time of the Millrose Mile, and that's what I was doing when I ran my 5k and 50k. Though the answer is simple, running a lot is hard, for a couple reasons. First, it takes time. But secondly, many runners cannot build the sort of base that will allow them to take their running to the next level because of injuries. So, the key to building a base is staying injury-free. 

Here's how I do it. See the forest, not the trees. Running a lot means running a lot. It means thinking about your running in terms of weekly, monthly, and yearly mileage totals instead of any single run. The purpose of running a lot is to build the system of capillaries, to awaken the mitochondria, to strengthen the heart, to lose weight, to transform the body into a running machine. This transformation happens over the long haul. These changes are not the result of any single run, but the accumulated effect of months and years of running. Run easy most of the time. If what matters most is the forest, then don't stress too much about any single "tree." Running hard too often wears you out, both physically and mentally. 80% of your running (at least) should be comfortable, easy, and fun. If you're feeling really good, then you might once or twice a week turn an easy run into a spontaneous tempo run. Do your workouts by feel, not by pace. Do not concentrate on making yourself hurt. Concentrate on making fast easy. I plan one workout a week during the base period, usually on Wednesdays. This workout is run at a tempo effort: running as fast as I can while staying relaxed. Sometimes I'll do 4-6 miles around half marathon pace. Sometimes a 10 miler at around marathon pace. Sometimes 3 x 2 miles at 10k pace. Run some strides every now and then. 6-10 60m accelerations a couple times a week will keep you in touch with your basic speed and keep the neuromuscular system ready to roll. 

For Example A sample base building week, taken from my recent training (week of Dec. 15th)

M: Easy 14 (7:15 pace)

T: Easy 8 (7:05 pace)

W: AM 5 miles continuous tempo @ 5:40 pace. 10 miles total with w/u and c/d (avg 6:29 pace) PM 6 miles easy (7:35 pace)

Th: AM 5.5 miles easy (7:17 pace) PM: 9 miles very easy (8:27 pace)

F: AM: 4 miles easy (7:30 pace) PM: 6 miles very easy (10:00 pace)

Sa: AM: 8 miles moderate (6:03 pace) PM: swim 1600 yards

Su: 14 miles easy (7:15 pace) Tot: 83.2 miles 

SpecificityThe base work will prepare you for any distance. It will take you 90% of the way there. No long runs required. No gut-wrenching 400's. Just run a lot. Teach your body to endure. Make the long term changes that separate the bodies of the elites from the bodies of everyone else. The last 10% takes specificity. This is where the difference in training for the mile and for the marathon comes into play. Once the foundation has been laid, you can spend 4-6 weeks (no more!) honing your body for the particular event. For the 5k, this means gut-wrenching 400's at 5k pace. For the marathon and the 50k, this means adding some long runs. Spending a month or so doing race-specific work will put the icing on the cake. But it's the cake that matters. If you don't believe me, I'll let you in on a little secret: I did no single training run longer than 14 miles before my most recent 50k. But I had my share of 80-90 mile weeks. Plenty of cake. And I can put on the icing whenever I like. Keep it simple! Keep it fun! Run a lot! Build that base!

Yeah, I knew it was there but for some reason my company blocks the logic of long distance site.

Sure more people sign up for 5k's than marathons and HM etc... but in seasoned runners.... it seems to me that most seem to gravitate towards the Half and the Marathon

 

I wonder is this because there is less pain? ie. how hard you must run a 5k, redline, make it hurt, instead of those longer more aerobic zone type runs?

 

Also do people transition towards the longer stuff for less pain? or because older and can't run that top speed as well any longer?

 

Or is it simply genetics and most of those runners are built more for endurance say than the 5k.

 

Or maybe that's where the glory is....? "oh you ran a marathon? wow you're awesome!"

 

I'm not putting those runners down btw, simply curious if there may be other reasons they run the longer more aerobic based races?

I didn’t start running until I was 42yo and I’ll have to admit that I was drawn to the marathon distance because I thought that it would be an amazing achievement to complete one regardless of what time I finished in. 11 years later and the marathon is still my favourite distance, but for different reasons as it’s now goal orientated and I always get a huge high when I nail a good marathon after a decent training cycle. Im kind of chasing the dragon now. 😀

OP - I’m curious to know what your running history is and if you’re talking about the training or racing being easier for a half or full?  From my experience...the only time I puked up on the finish line was my 10k PR...the last half mile was intense, but within 30min I was fine. The marathon is a different kind of hurt even if you run a successful even split race...the last 10k is hard mentally and physically with your brain constantly telling you it’s ok to slow down. I remember after I finished my Spring 2017 marathon my legs were completely wrecked, I had to get the train back still in my running shorts as I was unable to change without cramping up and couldn’t walk properly for about 3 days after (and I had trained well for that race)

Mikeymike - Thanks for the link and I remember reading about the 5k being mostly aerobic, so high mileage will still improve your times from 5k to marathon. FWIW, my 10k PR was right bang in the middle of a 400 mile month of mostly easy running. And my half PR was 2 weeks after completing a 400+ easy miles month....so I do get it!

Mostly my question stems from hearing HM and Marathoners talk about how hard a 5k is... when raced ideally. Or how much they hate 5k's even 10k's compared to the Half and Marathon.

 

Maybe it's because with the 5K you're riding close to the red line the whole race.  And as others have said it's a distance race so you're on that line for a while.

When I was running well and racing they all hurt ... it's just a different sort of hurt for each distance.

Mikeymike - Thanks for the link and I remember reading about the 5k being mostly aerobic, so high mileage will still improve your times from 5k to marathon. FWIW, my 10k PR was right bang in the middle of a 400 mile month of mostly easy running. And my half PR was 2 weeks after completing a 400+ easy miles month....so I do get it!

I've had similar experiences at every distance from the mile to the half. (Except my peak months have been in the 300s not 400s.)

I've driven 4 hours each way for a road mile.

(I love road miles)