Forums >Health and Nutrition>Runner's Knee..
not bad for mile 25
Yes, a lot of people, including some near and dear to me, believe that body parts have just so many operations, then will wear out just like mechanical joints. Not so; treat your body right and it will reward you with almost indefinite function. Of course, I'm not at the point where the aging issues are really kicking in, nor have I had to deal with early-onset arthritis or the like.
OP chiming in, and tbqh I'd sort of forgotten about this thread.
It was the shoes.
I had apparently spaced out and forgotten when I'd bought my last pair/how many miles were on them because they had mostly been used on the TM during the cold months and "looked fine". Yeah, I totally know better.
Got a new pair, and the knee has slowly but surely been calming down. It didn't swell and get irritated overnight, so it's not going to get better overnight, but I've changed NO other variable with my running, so it had to be the shoes.
Live and learn, and then log your miles.
For you. All due respect, OP had a very bad question ("give me everything...") but this is also one of the worst reply at the wonderful world of on-line medical institute analysis. Runner's Knee (especially such a broad issue...) = bad shoes. It is probably one of 40 different causes for knee soreness.
This is another bold generalization. There are probably at least 5 ot 6 different kind of "rubber" for running shoe mid-sole today. Combine that with different shape, different running style, running surface... Again, miles run in the particular shoes is probably one of 20 different kinds of shoe-related cause of knee soreness--assuming shoe actually IS the cause of it.
Sure, it COULD be a cause of it--I remember when i was in college, in fact, I can even remember exactly when, and where too, I felt a bit of knee uncomforbale feeling and I went out and got new pair of shoes soon afterwards and the soreness was gone. But I never EVER checked how many miles I've run in those shoes. For one, I alternated different shoes but more importantly, I used even better gauge than counting miles; knee soreness. Afterall, isn't it the whole reason why you think you should change shoes? Can you use "feeling" as a symptom or you just can't trust your own "feeling"?
Sorry, not actually the OP here. I thought this was the thread I had started on my own case of runner's knee.
Nobby, "with all due respect", and I *do* respect your opinion immensely, I don't think I told anyone to throw their shoes out and buy another pair. I thought it was pretty clear in my post that it was the shoes I was wearing IN MY CASE. I never diagnosed a single person, nor did I give any advice to anyone else. I mean yeah, maybe someone out there is saying "Hey, my knee/ankle/hip/calf/hamstring/butt is hurting, I wonder how many miles I have on MY shoes anyway?" But that's it.
For some, runner's knee (and its very definition, if it actually IS runner's knee or not), is biomechanics. Some, it's terrain. Still more, it's overuse. And on and on and on.
And if I were the OP, I don't think I'd feel too kindly about your judging my original question. If you had said something like "Your question is a little too broad", that would have been cool. But saying it's "a bad question"?
FOR YOU.
Kinda makes new people not wanna post. If they knew everything, they probably wouldn't be over here asking questions.
[I also love how people say 'with all due respect' and then go on to post something disrespectful. It's like "I don't want to be rude, but you're too much of a fatass to wear those jeans"]
Also, I see nothing wrong with people keeping track of how many miles their shoes have on them. Might help you rule out shoe-related issues if yours are still good, or help you choose another brand if the ones you have broke down too quickly. In any case, what's the harm in it?
I stand corrected... by you and by my chiropractor. That is indeed my diagnosis. Posterior right pelvis tilt + lots of recent hard, long races = very tight right vastus lateralis + relatively stronger vastus lateralis vs. vastus medialis = imbalance pulling on the patella. The good thing, in my case, is that the treatment seems fairly clear, and there's no reason to think there's any long-term problem that needs addressing by altering my stride or shoes. Though I may work on strengthening that VMO. But damn, it really sucks to not be able to go more than 3-4 miles without pain. I am ready for this to be gone.
I stand corrected... by you and by my chiropractor. That is indeed my diagnosis. Posterior right pelvis tilt + lots of recent hard, long races = very tight right vastus lateralis + relatively stronger vastus lateralis vs. vastus medialis = imbalance pulling on the patella.
The good thing, in my case, is that the treatment seems fairly clear, and there's no reason to think there's any long-term problem that needs addressing by altering my stride or shoes. Though I may work on strengthening that VMO. But damn, it really sucks to not be able to go more than 3-4 miles without pain. I am ready for this to be gone.
I'll also jump back into this thread, just to update the above. Alas, there is no real update. Two months on, I'm still sidelined. Ready to move on to an orthopedic knee specialist. This is the longest I've ever been sidelined -- after 7 years of running, 64 marathons / ultras, and I'm brought down by *runner's knee*? WTF???
My summer goal race -- White River 50 -- was yesterday; I was a DNS. I can't run downhill, period.
Might seem kind of simple but have you looked at your shoes. Most injuries and such come from them. The only time I've ever really had problems with my knees have been when my shoes are bad.
If you're talking to me, yes, I've tried switching shoes. Thing is, I was putting in 70-80mpw this spring in my regular trainers (Saucony Fastwitch 4), no problem. It's clear that I later abused my legs just a bit too much with the racing I did in April and May; that's sufficient to explain some inflammation in the knee. What's totally unclear is why it's still there. Again -- this is the first time I've had these symptoms, in 7 years of lots of running. It can't just be my shoes.
I came down with my issue back in January and I'm still dealing with it. MIne came on after three weekends in a row of racing, one of which was a hilly 10K. I currently have some days running there is literally no pain. Other days there is pain the entire run. Luckily, it's not bad to where I need to stop. It's just something I continue to deal with and try to manage. I've been doing more strength training for the quads and alot of stretching. Maybe that's why I've been able to keep the pain manageable. Good luck to you.
Sorry, not actually the OP here. I thought this was the thread I had started on my own case of runner's knee. Nobby, "with all due respect", and I *do* respect your opinion immensely, I don't think I told anyone to throw their shoes out and buy another pair. I thought it was pretty clear in my post that it was the shoes I was wearing IN MY CASE. I never diagnosed a single person, nor did I give any advice to anyone else. I mean yeah, maybe someone out there is saying "Hey, my knee/ankle/hip/calf/hamstring/butt is hurting, I wonder how many miles I have on MY shoes anyway?" But that's it. For some, runner's knee (and its very definition, if it actually IS runner's knee or not), is biomechanics. Some, it's terrain. Still more, it's overuse. And on and on and on. And if I were the OP, I don't think I'd feel too kindly about your judging my original question. If you had said something like "Your question is a little too broad", that would have been cool. But saying it's "a bad question"? FOR YOU. Kinda makes new people not wanna post. If they knew everything, they probably wouldn't be over here asking questions. [I also love how people say 'with all due respect' and then go on to post something disrespectful. It's like "I don't want to be rude, but you're too much of a fatass to wear those jeans"] Also, I see nothing wrong with people keeping track of how many miles their shoes have on them. Might help you rule out shoe-related issues if yours are still good, or help you choose another brand if the ones you have broke down too quickly. In any case, what's the harm in it?
Sorry my rude comment got you all bent out of shape. Maybe it's my language--I still don't understand what you meant by "I'm not OP but I had started this thread..." I thought OP meant "Original Post(er)" and "original" meant "beginning" or "start".
I know I can be handful because I call spade a spade. Serioiusly, if this Original Post is a good, articulate question, then I don't know what is not:
anything and everything anyone can advise with, stop running for how long, then what?...thanks a lot...
Maybe it's me being a foreigner is inhibiting me to understand; maybe this Original Poster was doing some research to get as much information about runner's knee problem to write a thesis or maybe he was writing an article for Runner's World...I wouldn't know. But I could have been very straight forward and say: "This is one of the worst inquiries I had ever seen"; as bad as some questions like; "I want to be fast; what do I need to do and how long would it take for me to be an Olympic champion?" You go to letsrun.com; you'll see that kind of inquiry all the time.
Unlike some people may think (OP?), there are many different types of pain. If it's a dull pain, usually it's caused by over-use; or perhaps the undue stress. Overly worn shoe OR wrong shoe could contribute that. And, if that's the case, you eliminate the cause, it would most likely disappeared almost immediately. If it's a sharp pain, and hate to say, if you hadn't had a knee problem for years and, boom, it started and it almost sounds like it's rather persistent; I'd strongly recommend you seek professional medical attention. Sometimes a small chip off the bone gets peeled off and its sharp edge might be irritating the nerve or something. I wouldn't know for sure and I wouldn't make a call decisively but there's a possibility and you DO want a professional help for that.
If it's a sharp pain, and hate to say, if you hadn't had a knee problem for years and, boom, it started and it almost sounds like it's rather persistent; I'd strongly recommend you seek professional medical attention. Sometimes a small chip off the bone gets peeled off and its sharp edge might be irritating the nerve or something. I wouldn't know for sure and I wouldn't make a call decisively but there's a possibility and you DO want a professional help for that.
Hmm. The X-ray didn't show anything unusual. But I am moving on to an orthopedic knee specialist; perhaps he will order an MRI. Would a small bone chip typically show up on an X-ray?
My x-ray didn't show anything either. I did go to an orthopedic surgeon who felt around the knee and bent and moved my lower leg around in several directions and asked if I felt pain with any of the movements or to the touch. I didn't so he said it was nothing serious. He told me to continue the quad and hamstring strengthening and start cycling to strengthen the surrounding knee muscles. Been doing all of it and it still lingers. The one thing I won't do is stop running unless it becomes bad to where I'm limping. That only happened at the beginning of the pain back in January.
Uh.... what?
I had started a thread some time ago with this exact same title on this exact same topic. When I said I was the OP, I thought I was posting on MY thread, and later realized I hadn't.
I thought I was clear about that too.
And I still think you were needlessly rude and demeaning.
Biomimeticist
And your back pain is a byproduct of overdeveloped quads and hamstrings reducing your natural movement which your lower back can't support in biomechanic function.
Experts said the world is flat
Experts said that man would never fly
Experts said we'd never go to the moon
Name me one of those "experts"...
History never remembers the name of experts; just the innovators who had the guts to challenge and prove the "experts" wrong
It may not always show.
What I think great about public message board is that you may come across someone who might have experienced the same thing and you actually get the live-experience from those people. However, what I DON'T like about public message board is that "you never know"... And sometimes we come across overly eager posters. Sometimes I see someone asking a question of something like; "I did such-and-such workout yesterday and I have a race in a week. What do you think?" Well, most likely, if that was a bad workout, the damage is done and probably there's not much you can do about it. But the worst thing you can tell to that person is just that. Same thing; for someone with some sort of an issue--like a knee soreness--the worst thing you can tell them is; "Oh, boy! It could be fatile!!"
With that, I actually feel like the damage is already done when I whispered to you that it COULD be a bone chip... It may not!! Like I said, if it's NOT a sharp pain, a big chance it is not. But if it is a sharp pain, I would seriously check it with X-ray or MRI or whatever it may be. It could also be some sort of calcium deposite and, it so happens to be at the area where you have a nerve ending or something and it's irritating it. I guess the first thing you need to ask yourself is whether or not the pain is a dull one or a sharp one. Well, either way, it probably pays to seek a professional help anyways; but if it's a dull one, keep the area warm and maybe even continue to run (slow) and see how it feels.