Newbies on this forum - rather long, and maybe comet-like ;) (Read 1169 times)

    I started a new topic to answer a question JK asked in the thread 'How many miles before I replace shoes?' because I didn't want to hijack that thread again, where the topic has changed enormously since I last read it.
    Not to high-jack completely - but I'm curious about opinions, since this keeps coming up, and people keep getting scolded for not being friendly enough: do new people have any responsibility for doing a little research? Or is that really too much to ask? Is it a two-way street or one-way? I ask sincerely. I don't know the answer.
    OK, It took me a long time to answer this, as I'm on the other side of the big pond, and I slept during the biggest part of the ongoing thread (as most of you are doing now Tongue), and I see the subject has shifted completely since yesterday evening... Nevertheless, trying to be serious and... (oh my God, I do have to take some more English classes, I don't seem to be able to express myself in a clear way). OK, trying to be serious and kind of boring: Yes, of course newbies have a responsability too... But I'm sure I'm not the only one that's not a native speaker here on the forum, and I can imagine that sometimes I won't be able to search with the correct keywords to find what I want to know... But my point is this: I was on this forum two years ago (when it was only a few months old), and came back here last week to find some backing and motivation after nearly a year of inactivity on the running front, and I just noticed that questions that were eagerly discussed by a lot of the forum members (music, when replacing your shoes?) in 2006, now were answered with a picture of a car or of a 'fire-ball', that didn't have any cue for the non-knowing newbie. Yes, I do understand that after being together on a forum for years, inside jokes do develop, and yes, I know that part of the attraction of forums is just that feeling of 'having things in common that you find nowhere else', but I missed the welcoming atmosphere to newbies that was so appealing to me two years ago. Yes, I did understand the mixed feelings that arose towards some newbie asking for moderators after the reactions on his question, but when I saw the same 'comet'-reactions on yet another thread, it gave me the feeling that some of the older members just wanted to stay in the same old company, the same old circle, and that newbies weren't welcome anymore... Trying to summarize (which is extremely difficult for me, even when speaking Dutch' Wink): Yes of course, newbies have the obligation to 'look further than the length of their nose', as I would say in Dutch, but, on a forum called 'New to running? Come here to get help from more experienced runners', I would expect that a question would be answered by more than just some inside-jokes within the first few answers (OK, short answers were provided too, but 'shy people' might be scared away nevertheless.) No, I don't want to say the forum isn't welcoming anymore, but it felt strange to notice that exactly on a forum (running 101) that said 'new to running, Come here to get help from more experienced runners', newbies seemed to have to be carefull not to ask too obvious questions (that's where newbies are for, isn't it?). And many newbies will think their question is very pertinent and is probably never asked before I suppose. On the other hand... it IS important that the forum stays interesting for the experienced members. When they don't visit the forum anymore, newbies won't get answers from experienced runners after all. So, maybe a sticky post on top, titled 'Before asking a question', containing links to the most FAQs? (modified to correct some linguistic errors Blush)

    Running in Belgium
    Ann

     

     

     

    Purdey


    Self anointed title

      Ann. Well said. BTW - this topic has been covered before. Big grin

       

       

        I don't understand why it is a problem for people to avoid threads titled accurately with comet topics. As long as the title of the thread isn't misleading so as to lure innocent bystanders in with the promise of something new and exciting. Even old topics can generate new discussion and isn't that why we would want to participate in a forum rather than just search for everything on the internet at large. I mean really... pretty much everything on this forum is out there, answered by at least one voice. Everything here has been said before in at least some way. MTA: of course the newbies can just avoid the comet digs too... some of them are very funny. Live and let live man.
        The Graduates - a community of post C25K runners!

        Started Running 21 April 2008

        2008 Running Goals
        • Finish C25K 22 Jun 2008
        • Run 5K 43:29 29 Jun 2008
        • Complete a 10K fun run
        Purdey


        Self anointed title

          I don't understand why it is a problem for people to avoid threads titled accurately with comet topics. As long as the title of the thread isn't misleading so as to lure innocent bystanders in with the promise of something new and exciting. Even old topics can generate new discussion and isn't that why we would ... hang on. I think I've seen this response covered somewhere before.

           

           

            BTW - this topic has been covered before. Big grin
            Apparently I didn't search by the right keywords Tongue

            Running in Belgium
            Ann

             

             

             

              If you hadn't mentioned English is not your native language, I certainly wouldn't have known. It wouldn't take long to come up with lots of posts that weren't nearly as well written. I don't know if that other site was more newbie-friendly, but we did pick up a couple of newbie specialists after the Active debacle. Figbash (Tom) and LongRunNick usually jumped on the thread and provided great information, even if they had already answered it a couple of times that day in other threads. Newbies very quickly got a welcome, information and encouragement in one fell swoop. I've seen Tom posting, but has anybody seen LongRunNick in these parts lately?

              E.J.
              Greater Lowell Road Runners
              Cry havoc and let slip the dawgs of war!

              May the road rise to meet you, may the wind be always at your back, may the sun shine warm upon your SPF30, may the rains fall soft upon your sweat-wicking hat, and until you hit the finish line may The Flying Spaghetti Monster hold you in the hollow of His Noodly Appendage.


              Go Pre!

                Great Post Ann
                Scout7


                  The fact is, this site, just like in real life, contains people of varying levels of humor, taste, style, and personal predilections. Whens someone posts something that seems offensive or mean-spirited, chances are it's your interpretation of the post. Most likely, the poster had a different meaning behind it. The site is now much bigger than it was, and therefore there are more personalities than before. Some of us who have been here for a while DO get tired of seeing the same questions asked, and certain questions more than others because they are divisive topics. This wearing out is to be expected, as any parent with young children can probably relate. Additionally, whether we admit it or not, we bring external issues into our posts. Sometimes, we have a bad day. It happens. And sometimes, we let that frustration out through posts. Of course, some people (like myself) are just naturally cantankerous and blunt. When people ask for an opinion on a public forum, they are going to get good advice, bad advice, and stupid responses. Such is the nature of public discourse in this medium. Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff is useful. However, if you're not ready to deal with the sarcasm, humor, or other BS, it might seem that people are unnecessarily picking on you. I assure you all, this is seldom the case. To close, I'll leave with my observation of people who ask questions: The are two basic groups. Those who are looking for an answer, and those who are looking for justification. The first is easy to deal with, and approaches with an open mind; I have no problem helping this person, as he or she is open to all opinions, and will appreciate the answers provided, even if they don't currently fit that person's thinking. The second, however, already has an opinion, and no thoughts to the contrary can sway him or her from it. These are the ones I have no time for. If you want advice, be prepared for advice you don't want to hear. Otherwise, all you're hearing is what already fits your current mental model, and you learn nothing.


                  Dave

                    It does seem that the Running 101 forum has evolved into something other than that for which it was intended, namely a safe place for newbies to ask questions and get help and encouragement. I'm probably as guilty as most so I'm not pointing fingers. There are places here for discussions with a bit more of a hard edge. Maybe we could agree to treat Running 101 as more of a "safe zone". And I do miss Long Run Nick.

                    I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

                    dgb2n@yahoo.com


                    Go Pre!

                      Great posts Scout & Dave
                        Some of us who have been here for a while DO get tired of seeing the same questions asked, and certain questions more than others because they are divisive topics. This wearing out is to be expected, as any parent with young children can probably relate.
                        Which is why almost all kids really like their grandparents, they're patienter and smarterer.

                        E.J.
                        Greater Lowell Road Runners
                        Cry havoc and let slip the dawgs of war!

                        May the road rise to meet you, may the wind be always at your back, may the sun shine warm upon your SPF30, may the rains fall soft upon your sweat-wicking hat, and until you hit the finish line may The Flying Spaghetti Monster hold you in the hollow of His Noodly Appendage.

                        Roses Revenge


                          Newbie here - sort of. I'm a long time participant on several different boards but relatively new to this one. I've seen references to comets and got that it was an inside joke, but didn't really understand the reference until this morning when I did a search on Comet. I think it's really an appropriate image and may use it some other places I frequent. I'm also a newbie runner - even though I've completed six marathons in the last three years and was first in my age group for 2 of the last 3. I have lots of newbie questions about running and figuring out how to move from walking to running - what I should eat/drink, how I should train, what kind of plan to follow when I have a good base from 3 years of marathon training but not as a runner, etc. Some of you I recognize from other places, some I don't but that's okay, I'm getting to know you from reading your posts. I think there will always be newbies that think their question is unique. I know there are newbie questions I've asked elsewhere that were probably comet-like, but that I wouldn't have known what keywords to use in a search. I'm always thrilled when I realize I can answer a newbie question! All this to say, thanks for being here and thanks for helping all the newbies. Eventually the newbies learn or go away to bug someone else. Rose MM991

                          Marathon Maniac #991 Half Fanatic #58 Double Agent #22  It's a perfect day and I feel great!

                          celiacChris


                          3Days4Cure

                            If you want advice, be prepared for advice you don't want to hear. Otherwise, all you're hearing is what already fits your current mental model, and you learn nothing.
                            That should be in the description of Running 101. I'm a newbie, but always try to search before posting a question. I've always gotten great advice (sometimes two different viewpoints, I try both and find what works for me), and it has helped me grow and develop as a runner. If you post in any online forum and don't have a thick skin, its not a good idea. A suggestion--can we have a sticky post that is a FAQ and has "read first before posting" that provides links to frequently asked and comet topics so we don't have 1000 threads of the same ilk?

                            Chris
                            PRs: 27:26 5k/ 49:52 5mi/ 58:17 10k/ 2:09:24 half/ 5:13:17 Full

                            Post-Bipolar PRs: 38:35 5k/ 1:09:34 8k/ 1:09:39 5mi/ 1:33:03 10k/ 3:20:40 Half

                             

                            2022 Goals

                            Back to 10k

                             

                            xor


                              Some newbies are just newbies to running... many also seem to be newbies to message boards. Certainly newbies to the culture of the message board in which they are asking their question. Having been on the internet since the time of relay and old school usenet, one thing I do know: FAQs and stickies are nice to have, but only as places to point people back to. Expecting people to read them in advance is nice, but many will not. It's just part of being a newbie. Heck, oldbies don't use Search that much either. Simply posting an image of a comet is one of those "clubhouse" (the old CR free-form area) too-cool-for-school in joke responses when it shows up in newbie. It makes no sense. Anyway. There's a HUGE difference between a question like "how many miles should I get out of shoes?" and one like "can I bandit Boston" or "is music ok?" The first one should be a one page thread with clear answers, the second two will go on for 10 pages with people all pissed off... questions with no clear answers. If a newbie asks a question that is clearly divisive, I think it is PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE for an oldbie to nicely point out that the person has wandered into a minefield. And as we all know, some newbies aren't really newbies... a select few are trolls who have asked the divisive question just to cause trouble. Unfortunately, some newbies get accused of this unfairly. That is the way of the world. I showed up here a couple weeks ago and just casually tossed the term 'comet' into a thread. It's my term that I used to use on CR. It seems to have really taken off here, which is kind of nice, but I certainly didn't intend it to be used *without explanation* as the first-page answer to a non-divisive topic. Even if the topic has been asked before. Again: Search is a wonderful thing. Which most people don't utilize as their default action. Shoes last 300-500 miles. Don't use cotton socks. Run a lot of miles. Slow down. Eat.

                               

                              Trent


                              Good Bad & The Monkey

                                Here is the thing, many of us old farts have answered these questions at great length. And there do exist in-depth discussions out there that are fairly informative. Rather than expect forumites to rehash and rewrite all that, over and over, through the months and years, newbies probably should search. In many cases, the older posts and threads will be more informative than newer ones anyway. SRLopez, I have seen the shoe milage discussion get as ugly as the Boston Bandit discussion, again with no clear answers. Seemed to me like a good comet.