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1 have 11 months before my 1st marathon (Read 103 times)

HotJava


    Hi all,

     

    I'm looking to run my first marathon in September 2019 and I'd like to do it in under 3:30.  I'm 53yo male in pretty good gym shape.  I ran a 1/2 marathon on Oct 7th 2018 in 1:54 without doing any speed work and on 3 days a week of running (some weeks 2 days).  I know that it is a pretty lofty goal but I'm willing to put in the work.  I'm just not sure how to go about targeting this marathon 11 months away.

     

    My main question is, should I create 2 training block (5mos and 6mos) which targets a 1/2 marathon in the Spring of 2019 and then the 2nd training block would target the full marathon in September 2019?  I seem to notice that the marathon training plans are pretty much just 5 to 6 months max.  Or is there a steady plan to build over 11mos.

     

    I'm not concerned with training to complete a marathon.  I want to know if a 1:54 half with unstructured training without speed work is enough base that could propel me to a 3:30 marathon in 11months of training.  I know there is no magic pill - just looking for reasonable feedback.

    Christirei


      I might look at doing a three or four month training cycle for a 5 or 10 K to work on your speed, then take a couple of months to just build mileage and then start a 18-20 week marathon training plan

      wcrunner2


      I'm out of ideas

        Use the next 5-6 months to build up a mileage base and move to 4-5 days per week of running. Depending on where you are then, look at one of the intermediate or advanced training plans from Pfitzinger, Hanson, Hudson or one of the others often recommended here.

        2019 Races:

             10/26/19 - Piedmont 8-Hour

             11/23/19 - Crooked Road 24

        2020 Races:

             07/11/20 - Ethan Allen 6-Hour

          11 months is a long time to follow a training plan. IMO, can get a bit tedious and feel like work. I'd just increase mileage sensibly from now until spring with occasional races (5k-Half marathons).  Based on the results from these races you can either build a 16-20 week training plan or follow one of the many canned plans available.

          Bert-o


          I lost my rama

            I'd break it up into the two parts.  Forget about the full marathon and focus on training for a spring Half first.  Once that's done and you'll know how your time is, then you can focus on a realistic goal for training for the Full.  Pick a plan mentioned above - they're all good.

             

            Also, speed work won't help you get faster for endurance races.  Volume (more miles) is what's needed.  Any reputable marathon prediction calculator uses overall weekly miles as the primary variable in your predicted result.  That won't ever change.  Get more days running, get more miles in, then you will get faster running farther.  Just don't over-do it and get injured, that's the crux.

            3/17 - NYC Half

            4/28 - Big Sur Marathon  DNS

            6/29 - Forbidden Forest 30 Hour

            8/29 - A Race for the Ages - will be given 47 hours

            wcrunner2


            I'm out of ideas

              Also, speed work won't help you get faster for endurance races.  Volume (more miles) is what's needed. 

               

               

              While I agree that more miles are needed, speed work plays an important part in training for endurance events, even ultras, and the faster your goal in endurance events, the more important it is. For the marathon and ultras I'd lean more toward tempo runs for speed work, but even intervals will help. You'll see speed work incorporated in Pfitzinger, Hanson, Hudson, even Higdon's advance programs.

              2019 Races:

                   10/26/19 - Piedmont 8-Hour

                   11/23/19 - Crooked Road 24

              2020 Races:

                   07/11/20 - Ethan Allen 6-Hour

              Bert-o


              I lost my rama

                 

                While I agree that more miles are needed, speed work plays an important part in training for endurance events, even ultras, and the faster your goal in endurance events, the more important it is. For the marathon and ultras I'd lean more toward tempo runs for speed work, but even intervals will help. You'll see speed work incorporated in Pfitzinger, Hanson, Hudson, even Higdon's advance programs.

                 

                Agreed that it's an important component, but too often I see novice runners make it a priority over volume.  Get the volume first, then speed work second.  Most do it the other way around, including myself the first time.  Hence, I will over-emphasize volume.

                3/17 - NYC Half

                4/28 - Big Sur Marathon  DNS

                6/29 - Forbidden Forest 30 Hour

                8/29 - A Race for the Ages - will be given 47 hours

                gsaun039


                Caffeine-fueled Runner

                  Volume first, speed second.  The speed will come with volume to start with, then as you prepare for the marathon, you can select a plan that incorporates speedwork.  The plan I used basically had a speedwork day on Tuesdays and then incorporated a portion of the medium-long (10-16 miles) and long runs (more than 16 miles) with HM pace or MP during part of the run.

                  PR's--- 5K  24:11,   10K  49:40,   10-Mile  1:26:02,  HM  1:56:03,   Marathon  4:16:17

                  Maniac #11112, Fanatic #14276, Double Agent #2335

                  DavePNW


                     

                     Get the volume first, then speed work second.  

                     

                    For my first marathon, I did neither. Results were as you would expect.

                    Dave

                    paul2432


                      Give us some more info.  What is your height and weight?  What is your 5K time?  What is your gym routine (are cycling or elliptical on your non-run days)?  Did you run the HM evenly or start out too fast and fade (too fast and fade means you could have run faster with better pacing and 1:54 would not represent your true fitness).  Also, was the HM hot or hilly or any other factors that would slow you down?  Is your planned September 2019 marathon hot or hilly?  September marathons can be hot.

                       

                      I think 3:30 is not impossible, but probably a lot harder than you think*.  I don't think it matters too much how you structure the first 7-8 months as long as you consistently make progress.  Ideally you get up to 5-7 days/week leading into the last 3-4 months.  Gradually build mileage to the extent you can tolerate it.  Remember it's consistency that matters.  50 MPW week after week is much better than getting up to 75 miles for a couple weeks then needing to drop down to 10 MPW because you are hurt or worn out.

                       

                      Regarding speedwork, I agree and disagree with the others.  I agree that workouts like 10x800 probably aren't necessary during your buildup and may be counter productive.  On the other hand, I think it's critical to work on your true base speed year round, especially for older runners who lose speed (I'm 50).  There are lots of ways to do this.  At the end of a run do 8-10 ~20 seconds strides (I run these around mile pace).  Full recovery after each one.  Or you can disperse them throughout your run.  Every 5 minutes or half mile or whatever (after you are warmed up) pick up the pace for 20 seconds or so.  Another thing you can do is hill sprints.  Find a reasonable steep hill and sprint up 10-15 seconds.  Walk back down until and wait until fully recovered.  Repeat 10-12 times (start with 3 or 4 and build up over a few weeks).

                       

                      *It's also probably true that if you stick with it for 3-4 years and continually progress, you can do way better than you ever thought possible.

                      berylrunner


                      Rick

                         

                         

                        My main question is, should I create 2 training block (5mos and 6mos) which targets a 1/2 marathon in the Spring of 2019 and then the 2nd training block would target the full marathon in September 2019?  I seem to notice that the marathon training plans are pretty much just 5 to 6 months max.  Or is there a steady plan to build over 11mos.

                         

                         

                         

                        What I would do is start building a big base of miles now.  That is the magic pill.  Start a training cycle for a spring Marathon with a target of 3:45-50 and you may hit sub four when you have problems.  Nobody hits their time goal in their first marathon (took me 4 tries before I got the time I wanted).  Run it pretty conservative to minimize recovery time.  Then start a training cycle for your fall marathon where you can fix your mistakes.

                         

                        Like Paul said, more information would be helpful, but even then, everyone is different.  What is the significance of a 3:30 time for you?

                         

                        09-06-19   Last One Standing

                         

                        10-05-19   St. George Marathon

                        npaden


                          Lots of great advice, but I think you may need to temper your expectations a little bit.

                           

                          I was similar to you and ran my first half marathon on a short training cycle in 2012.  Ran it in 1:55:55 and was pretty happy with that.  (My goal was under 2 hours).

                           

                          I ran my first marathon the next year (on possibly my best training cycle I've ever had) and ran a 3:48:09 and was very happy with that.  (My goal was under 4 hours).

                           

                          It took me another 4 years and around 8,000 miles to get my marathon under 3 1/2 hours.  Of course the marathon wasn't my focus for a couple of those years but you either have to be a good runner or you need to put in some real work to start getting your marathon time down to BQ levels.  It can be done, but I caution you to think you can do it in one year of training.

                           

                          Setting things up for a spring half marathon to see how much you've improved is a great idea IMO.

                          Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

                          Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

                            Both you and Eliud Kipchoge. :-)

                             

                             

                            I ran my first marathon the next year (on possibly my best training cycle I've ever had) and ran a 3:48:09 and was very happy with that.  (My goal was under 2 hours).

                             

                            npaden


                              Both you and Eliud Kipchoge. :-)

                               

                               

                              Whoops.  I fixed my typo.

                              Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

                              Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

                              Bert-o


                              I lost my rama

                                 

                                Whoops.  I fixed my typo.

                                 

                                  I must admit, I liked seeing that 2 hour goal.

                                3/17 - NYC Half

                                4/28 - Big Sur Marathon  DNS

                                6/29 - Forbidden Forest 30 Hour

                                8/29 - A Race for the Ages - will be given 47 hours

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