Forums >Running 101>marathon cut off times need to change to increase good health
Anyone read Marathon Investigation
I legit hate this guy's MO.
RIP Milkman
Some of the stories are a little annoying (like the one linked to, that was so dumb), but curious why you feel that way.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Isn't his name Derek? I don't like it, either. I find the fact that he would spend so much time seeking these people out a lot creepier than some low-level runners cutting some courses, if in fact, they did.
I don't read his site but he does post on other running messageboards from time to time.
Vigilante judge and jury shit is generally always bad, but especially when it's just running. Fuck that guy.
Runners run
Mmmm Bop
As he reached mile 6, he headed to the line of at least 500 people waiting to take a potty break. That’s a lot of people making school boy errors!
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
(edited). Screw it. What Mikey said but with an accent.
Fuck that guy and his self righteous bullying. And screw doxing people. It isn't ok.
Was I the only one who watched the video & immediately thought of the corrupt marathon officials cutting the course?
As far as the site, I have mixed thoughts. When it is people with huge social media following & making money somehow off of it, I don't have an issue with the articles that show they cut a course or did something else against the rules. If it's Joe Nobody, not sure it needs to be a public thing.
Screw it. What Mikey said but with an accent.
I'm really enjoying the fact that I'm the one *without* the accent here.
(edited).
Too bad, that was a good rant.
Dave
(snip)
OG serial cheater Kip Litton.
For anyone not familiar with this story, it’s a fascinating read. Long article, but well worth investing the time.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/08/06/marathon-man
Slower but happier
Not a big fan of the MI approach of public outing, here's my thoughts.
The goal, I imagine, is to keep races fair by stopping serial cheaters and discouraging new ones from starting. I don't think that the harm from cheating is trivial. I think we have to question if public shaming is the best way to go about that goal. Has public shaming made a significant impact on the number of cheaters? What is the cost vs. benefit?
Public shaming is different than providing general information about how and why people cheat, methods to take to prevent it, or from privately contacting races/RDs with concerns about cheaters. It's not tenable to think the internet,-by likes and downvotes-can somehow be used in this fashion to deliver justice effectively. I think the burden of proof is on the supporters of public shaming to prove its effectiveness. I have not seen that it is particularly successful in other areas of society (addiction comes to mind), but that is another topic unto itself I suppose.
I do admit that it is entertaining- a kind of voyeurism into the cheaters who are as far as I can tell looking for attention or whatever their motivation/compulsion. But that doesn't seem to be reason enough to support going after these people in such a public manner. Another concern is some are psychologically unstable and may be unpredictable when outed to such an extent. A second concern is that cases which seem clear cut, may not always be that way (see below re: unhinged boyfriend). I also question the motivation of even doing this kind of outing. Especially as the angry clicks generate $$$ for the posters.
I am happy to have part of my race fees going to maintain integrity of the race, but I think input such as MI gives should be done as a consultant, not publicly outing people. Races/organizers that ignore cheating should be held accountable or at least make it public that cheating is allowed in their marathon (and throw in doping while you are at it)
There was a Ten Junk Miles podcast awhile back did an interview with Derek about this whole issue. Scotty, the host discussed some of the concerns of outing cheaters on the internet. Worth a listen if this topic interests you. In a more disturbing follow up podcast where they called one of the cheaters to talk, they instead got her boyfriend on the line, who was clearly unhinged. It wasn't obvious to me that the cheater in question had been the on line persona causing all sorts of trouble and saying the things that Derek was using as part of the justification to go after her. It seemed equally if not more likely it was the boyfriend using her identity. This was another example of a potential issue of who are you actually talking and reacting to when you are online anyway.
TL;DR Dont run with a pitchfork. If you fall you could hurt yourself or someone else. If you are feeling confident the internet is a vehicle for improving morality and behavior, just watch a few episodes of Black Mirror and what he said...its just running. If you think this is too long and overbearing just read my RRs!
2020 goal: couch to 5K, currently working on the couch block
Mother of Cats
I have to admit, I have a contrary view. In my view, races don't always do enough to deter cheaters - which is somewhat understandable, since they are dealing with limited resources. But it's frustrating - I've had to contact races numerous times to point out bib-swapping so that I can get the masters award that I earned. I like knowing that someone else is focusing on this also.
[full disclosure - he was very helpful in getting Jane Seo disqualified from the AIA half, which elevated a friend of mine up to the placing she had earned.]
As for the public shaming - that happens all the time in other areas of life. When you do wrong, it often attracts negative publicity. My local blogs call out people all the time for parking in handicapped spaces, etc. I have no issue with that.
Also worth noting that he has been doing this work privately as well - some races, most notably CIM, are now hiring him to police their results.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Will Run for Donuts!
I have to admit, I have a contrary view. In my view, races don't always do enough to deter cheaters - which is somewhat understandable, since they are dealing with limited resources. But it's frustrating - I've had to contact races numerous times to point out bib-swapping so that I can get the masters award that I earned. I like knowing that someone else is focusing on this also. [full disclosure - he was very helpful in getting Jane Seo disqualified from the AIA half, which elevated a friend of mine up to the placing she had earned.] As for the public shaming - that happens all the time in other areas of life. When you do wrong, it often attracts negative publicity. My local blogs call out people all the time for parking in handicapped spaces, etc. I have no issue with that.
Exactly. Cheating has consequences to other racers. I've seen awards given to people who cut the course, and it sucks.
I once witnessed a runner cut the course buy running across a narrow park in the Rock n' Roll DC marathon. It probably only saved him about .25 miles, and I wondered why he even did it, but then I noticed he was wearing a Boston shirt, so maybe he was chasing precious seconds for a BQ. If he bumped a legit qualifier from the Boston field, f*&# that guy. In small (usually very small!) local events, I've sometimes got a chance at an age group award. If someone legitimately beats me because they trained harder and ran a better race, good for them and they have my respect. If they cheated to beat me, I'd rather they find another sport.