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Most Effective vs. Most Efficient running form (Read 218 times)

Opandescent


    Been doing some research on the internet (and have been running/jogging for the past few months). I've tried Ct5k to start out, read scooby's article on the matter, looked up effective runners to try to imitate their stride and done some personal experimentation.

     

    By effective I mean 'fast' and by efficient I mean 'run but don't get tired easily'.

     

    I was wondering if anyone knew any tips on how to run 1) effectively and 2) efficiently. I understand that both require very different things (like fast twitch and slow twitch muscles, etc) but I was looking for how to optimize both or either one at once. I will be going into mandatory military service soon (about a year) so I need to get myself prepped for daily long-distance high-intensity running.

     

    I don't want to push to extreme pain training for it (I've done it before, about two years back I did a ferocious push-till-you-drop regime, in an attempt to get myself used to pushing. I kept this up for a year and never did get used to pushing myself into/through intense headaches, and instead developed a horrible running form). Also, I don't want to be pushing to keep up with regular training inside the military when I do go into military service, so I am seeking a way in which I can optimize form.

     

    Do any seasoned runners here have tips on proper form for efficient running and effective running? Please answer separately unless it is a general rule that applies to both. Anything that you feel is useful to know would help.

     

    I would also like to know how to avoid braking prematurely while running (I heard overextending stride causes this, but is there anything else?). I've also had much difficulty trying to maintain a steady view of the surroundings like Scooby advises (I find my head bounces a lot while trying to land on forefoot rather than hindfoot) and am having a lot of difficulty trying to 'glide' across the treadmill/track like he recommends.

     

    Also, I heard about peoples' personal running logs possibly being helpful on this forum. Is there anywhere that I can find out more about this?

      Been doing some research on the internet (and have been running/jogging for the past few months). I've tried Ct5k to start out, read scooby's article on the matter, looked up effective runners to try to imitate their stride and done some personal experimentation.

       

      I was wondering if anyone knew any tips on how to run 1) effectively and 2) efficiently. I understand that both require very different things (like fast twitch and slow twitch muscles, etc) but I was looking for how to optimize both. I will be going into mandatory military service soon (about a year) so I need to get myself prepped for daily long-distance high-intensity running.

       

      I don't want to push to extreme pain training for it (I've done it before, about two years back I did a ferocious push-till-you-drop regime, in an attempt to get myself used to pushing. I kept this up for a year and never did get used to pushing myself into/through intense headaches, and instead developed a horrible running form). Also, I don't want to be pushing to keep up with regular training inside the military when I do go into military service, so I am seeking a way in which I can optimize form.

       

      Do any seasoned runners here have tips on proper form for efficient running and effective running? Please answer separately unless it is a general rule that applies to both. Anything that you feel is useful to know would help.

       

      I would also like to know how to avoid braking prematurely while running (I heard overextending stride causes this, but is there anything else?). I've also had much difficulty trying to maintain a steady view of the surroundings like Scooby advises (I find my head bounces a lot while trying to land on forefoot rather than hindfoot) and am having a lot of difficulty trying to 'glide' across the treadmill/track like he recommends.

       

      Also, I heard about peoples' personal running logs possibly being helpful on this forum. Is there anywhere that I can find out more about this?

       

      The best article on running form I've read is Greg McMillan's "Think Tall."

      "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

        Check out New Balance Good Form running.  Youtube it.  You'll find some good videos.  The New Balance discussion on posture, cadence, midfoot strike, and lean is explained in a pretty easy to understand way for new runners.

          +1

           

          More like +1,000, actually, but I am but one man.

           

           

          The best article on running form I've read is Greg McMillan's "Think Tall."

          "When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." 
          Emil Zatopek

          Opandescent


            Ok, I'll have a look at those. Thanks.

             

            I forgot to say this in the OP though; by effective I mean 'fast' and by efficient I mean 'run but don't get tired easily'.

              Ok, I'll have a look at those. Thanks.

               

              I forgot to say this in the OP though; by effective I mean 'fast' and by efficient I mean 'run but don't get tired easily'.

               

              Not just that, but running with proper form is one of the best ways to stay injury free.

                 

                The best article on running form I've read is Greg McMillan's "Think Tall."

                 

                Good stuff!!!

                And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx

                 

                Rob

                Opandescent


                   

                  The best article on running form I've read is Greg McMillan's "Think Tall."

                   

                  I just finished reading that article but I have some questions.

                   

                  The article mentions 'running tall', or basically having a ramrod straight posture.

                   

                  When running tall I notice a significant bounce . This seems like a complete waste of energy regardless of how much I try to reduce it by pushing legs backwards rather than downward. However, if I lean all the way forward (with a straight back), I am able to make it such that the bounce is in a diagonally forwards direction, and it seems to contribute toward helping me expend less energy. The fact that my centre of gravity is now also in front of my legs also pulls me forward. I've also watched videos regarding using bending forward (but keeping back straight) to use the torque caused by your forwards-bending body to move yourself forward and it's worked for efficiency, but hasn't been terribly ineffective for speed. So I'd like to ask, is standing straight absolutely necessary for efficient form?

                    If you're bouncing, it's probably because your cadence is too slow.  Work on turning over  your feet quicker.  As a new runner, I'd shoot for a cadence of 170.

                      You should modify your letsrun post because they do not have running logs there.

                       

                      Opandescent


                        You should modify your letsrun post because they do not have running logs there.

                         

                        I would if I knew how to. I'm not sure where the edit button is.

                         

                         

                         

                        If you're bouncing, it's probably because your cadence is too slow.  Work on turning over  your feet quicker.  As a new runner, I'd shoot for a cadence of 170.

                         

                        I'm not familiar with that term (cadence), but I believe 170 refers to steps per minute, right? Is that in steps for both feet or one foot?

                          Kind of an interesting concept...  Interesting link (hadn't read the whole thing yet but will eventually), too.  However, all due respect, personally I think your view point is all completely off.  You seem to be a victim of too much information off internet.

                           

                          Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to think that; running fast = effective running form, running slow/easy = efficient form.  That, to me, is a completely wrong view.  If your running form is efficient, it is effective.  Do you think, all those elite sprinters, that they run so "effectively" and they waste an ounce of energy?  They run so powerfully, yet, they are VERY efficient.  Look at how Lagat glide through lap after lap at something like 4:10 per mile pace and yet looking like he's jogging.  That's efficient and effective.

                           

                          There are always physiological and mechanical fundamentals.  Each workout has a purpose.  If you want to have effective (to get, how do you say it, the bang for buck?) and efficient (don't waste your time and effort) workout, you'll need to do some studying.  Just because you run nice and easy, sometime you don't necessarily get "efficient" running form; and just because run fast (I'm not quite sure what you mean by "long-distance high-intensity running"...) and hard and "push through extreme pain" and run till you drop, that won't necessarily get you "effective" running either.

                           

                          There are certain sequence of development you'll have to take and it's not something "teach me on line and I'll be efficient and effective next week".  For example, hill training is one of the best ways to obtain this effectiveness and efficiency; but if you do it wrongly especially when you're not ready for it, it would backfire and it would hurt you more than help.  It's not like you change the way you land and you'll start running like Lagat overnight.

                           

                          This braking "prematurely" (I think you mean "excessive braking".  I guess you CAN brake prematurely but "premature" is more to do with timing) thing; "over-extending" (I think you meant "over-striding"), yes, can be one of the cause but you don't need to try to get long stride to brake excessively.  I see a lot of people today take very choppy strides, hardly lifting your knees, and they'll stick their leg out in the front and brake like crazy.  They hardly "over-extend" their stride, yet they get lots of braking.  Again, there's a lot more to excessive braking than simply over-extending.  You can also get lots of excessive braking, when you move your Center of Gravity up and down, by trying to "run tall".  As you might have concluded, that's not "run tall" at all.  I never ready what Greg had to say about it--I do however trust he's right; he knows what he's talking about--but I'm sure he had explained what it is and how it's obtained.  Runner's been talking about, and working on, "run tall" since 1950s.  Percy Cerutty of Australia talked a lot about it.

                           

                          Try to find whatever you can on coach Tom Tellez if you can.  He's a sprinting coach but working on your sprinting ability will help you develop efficient AND effective form for distance running.  Keep in mind, however, all the great running form in the world won't help you to get from Point A to Point B fast and well, if you haven't developed your fundamental fitness.

                           

                          Been doing some research on the internet (and have been running/jogging for the past few months). I've tried Ct5k to start out, read scooby's article on the matter, looked up effective runners to try to imitate their stride and done some personal experimentation.

                           

                          By effective I mean 'fast' and by efficient I mean 'run but don't get tired easily'.

                           

                          I was wondering if anyone knew any tips on how to run 1) effectively and 2) efficiently. I understand that both require very different things (like fast twitch and slow twitch muscles, etc) but I was looking for how to optimize both or either one at once. I will be going into mandatory military service soon (about a year) so I need to get myself prepped for daily long-distance high-intensity running.

                           

                          I don't want to push to extreme pain training for it (I've done it before, about two years back I did a ferocious push-till-you-drop regime, in an attempt to get myself used to pushing. I kept this up for a year and never did get used to pushing myself into/through intense headaches, and instead developed a horrible running form). Also, I don't want to be pushing to keep up with regular training inside the military when I do go into military service, so I am seeking a way in which I can optimize form.

                           

                          Do any seasoned runners here have tips on proper form for efficient running and effective running? Please answer separately unless it is a general rule that applies to both. Anything that you feel is useful to know would help.

                           

                          I would also like to know how to avoid braking prematurely while running (I heard overextending stride causes this, but is there anything else?). I've also had much difficulty trying to maintain a steady view of the surroundings like Scooby advises (I find my head bounces a lot while trying to land on forefoot rather than hindfoot) and am having a lot of difficulty trying to 'glide' across the treadmill/track like he recommends.

                           

                          Also, I heard about peoples' personal running logs possibly being helpful on this forum. Is there anywhere that I can find out more about this?

                            Dude.  You totally need to find this guy named Robert.  He would be so perfect for you.

                             

                            These are the things he and you share in common:

                             

                            1) Talks about military training (check)

                            2) Talks about running efficiently (check)

                            3) Talks about personal experimentation with his own form (check)

                            4) Talks about overstriding (check)

                            5) Talks about gliding (check)

                            6) Talks about running on the treadmill (check)

                            7) Talks about optimizing form (check)

                             

                            He also seems to like to make up sockpuppets to advance his cause (which is mainly him).

                             

                            Wait...a...MINUTE!

                             

                            Been doing some research on the internet (and have been running/jogging for the past few months). I've tried Ct5k to start out, read scooby's article on the matter, looked up effective runners to try to imitate their stride and done some personal experimentation.

                             

                            By effective I mean 'fast' and by efficient I mean 'run but don't get tired easily'.

                             

                            I was wondering if anyone knew any tips on how to run 1) effectively and 2) efficiently. I understand that both require very different things (like fast twitch and slow twitch muscles, etc) but I was looking for how to optimize both or either one at once. I will be going into mandatory military service soon (about a year) so I need to get myself prepped for daily long-distance high-intensity running.

                             

                            I don't want to push to extreme pain training for it (I've done it before, about two years back I did a ferocious push-till-you-drop regime, in an attempt to get myself used to pushing. I kept this up for a year and never did get used to pushing myself into/through intense headaches, and instead developed a horrible running form). Also, I don't want to be pushing to keep up with regular training inside the military when I do go into military service, so I am seeking a way in which I can optimize form.

                             

                            Do any seasoned runners here have tips on proper form for efficient running and effective running? Please answer separately unless it is a general rule that applies to both. Anything that you feel is useful to know would help.

                             

                            I would also like to know how to avoid braking prematurely while running (I heard overextending stride causes this, but is there anything else?). I've also had much difficulty trying to maintain a steady view of the surroundings like Scooby advises (I find my head bounces a lot while trying to land on forefoot rather than hindfoot) and am having a lot of difficulty trying to 'glide' across the treadmill/track like he recommends.

                             

                            Also, I heard about peoples' personal running logs possibly being helpful on this forum. Is there anywhere that I can find out more about this?

                            There was a point in my life when I ran. Now, I just run.

                             

                            Well, fuckers

                            He still stands

                             

                            The Diary of a Once-ran.

                              I finally had time to look at that Scooby stuff.  First of all, I wouldn't necessarily trust a body builder talking about running.  In most cases (not all), they are self-promoting loud mouth attention seeker.  Most, not all, of what he says is right.  Particularly the one where he talks about "floating" and keeping your head stable; but his practical application on how to achieve that is not much to praise about.  I'm glad that pea technique is the only thing he "patented" because that's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of.  The problem with saying something is important (which is true) and focus on just ONE THING (like "keep your head still") and ignore, or completely slip it out of his radar, the bigger picture; or ignore necessary exercises to achieve that; is that the audience would also focus only on that one aspect and that one aspect alone.  A good example of this "barefoot running".  I've seen hundreds (well, okay, maybe dozens...) of examples where "oh, look at me running barefoot!" type of YouTube clips where the guy is still landing on the heel.  So at least Scooby is correct on that (well, sorta...).  But then this "forefoot running" is the same too; they focus so much on landing on fore- or mid-foot landing but, if they are sticking their foot way out in the front too much, you'll get just as much unnecessary braking; possibly worse yet, you'll get so much "pull" on the shin that you're more likely to get shin splint this way.

                               

                              Out of ALL the sites that talk about running form or technique drills, why the heck did OP come up with this site?  I almost wonder if the OP is in fact Scooby and he's just trying to promote his site...

                                 

                                The best article on running form I've read is Greg McMillan's "Think Tall."

                                 

                                I was lucky to run at a high school where the coach and the upperclassmen focused on proper running form. It was something we worked on frequently. As a result, nearly every runner leaving the program had very good form. Notice that I didn't say "the same form." We all had differences in our body structure and function, so we had variations in our form. We all, however, looked good running."

                                 

                                ... and that is the most important thing.   Sounds like the Fernando Lamas school of running!  Nads - You look mahvelous!

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