Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018
Keen - Great race report. I can't believe someone yelled at you to do your own work in another race. He knows he could have just slowed down and gone behind you at any point right? Also, the tangent thing FASCINATES me. I find myself often running by myself on the tangents. Take an S shaped course, where you're running up the S. There are people who will just stay in the right lane the entire time, because either a) they feel awkward running on the "wrong" side of the road or b) they think they're wasting energy by going back and forth, not realizing that going back and forth is actually less distance. This was most pronounced in my latest 10K. These people all run sub 40 in a 10K and haven't figured out how to run tangents in a race? Come on now. Mark - I wasn't even around at that point for female runners. Glad you hated Times Square too!
Keen - Great race report. I can't believe someone yelled at you to do your own work in another race. He knows he could have just slowed down and gone behind you at any point right? Also, the tangent thing FASCINATES me. I find myself often running by myself on the tangents. Take an S shaped course, where you're running up the S. There are people who will just stay in the right lane the entire time, because either a) they feel awkward running on the "wrong" side of the road or b) they think they're wasting energy by going back and forth, not realizing that going back and forth is actually less distance. This was most pronounced in my latest 10K. These people all run sub 40 in a 10K and haven't figured out how to run tangents in a race? Come on now.
Mark - I wasn't even around at that point for female runners. Glad you hated Times Square too!
JMac, it is crazy how often that happens and people pick crappy lines even when they're relatively quick. I really noticed it in the NZ Champs race because everyone was running tight racing lines to the point where the odd elbow would clip the top of a course marker. That stuff all adds up and on a half marathon it's not hard to see how you could end up running 200m or so extra just from picking bad lines.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Cobra Commander Keen
Mark - Thanks! If Flavio hadn't mentioned the HR thing I probably never would have taken a close enough look at it to even notice the issue since I wasn't at all concerned with checking HR during the race. This was the first really big HR issue I've had with this watch. I have noticed that in cold weather (at/below freezing) it's prone to issues, but I've assumed that's because of less blood flow to my arms and vasoconstriction in the cold.
This makes two pretty good races (counting my lone 10k) that have come at the end of big mileage weeks. Hopefully that holds true for my kinda-hilly HM in a month. I'm now thinking of aiming for ~1:26 there. Thoughts?
JMac - Thanks! That guy yelled at me when I was coming up behind him in order to pass - we were at about mile 9 or 10 of a 15k, and going directly into a ~15mph wind. I was about to suggest that we pull for eachother every other kilometer to help with the wind, but when he told me to "do my own work" before passing him I decided to just drop him and had a good 2 minutes lead by the end. That guy is easy to recognize because he always wears the same Green Lantern tank in every race.
People not running tangents just puzzles me. It's free time off your race - or rather extra time you just don't add. At one point during this race everyone was running on a curve to the left, but the tangent was on the far right (inside) of the curve. That tangent also happened to be between the volunteers holding drinks and the drink table - guess where I ran!I do the tangent thing on easy runs myself so long as I'm not going to disrupt any traffic (which is rare).
Sadly, the only females I "know" who can sniff sub-90 are step-up-from-imaginary friends from the sub 3:20 thread (waves to DWave as she lurks).
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Hot Weather Complainer
The best example of tangents paying off you will ever see is Rod Dixon in the New York Marathon in about 1983 I think it was. Turned second into first, you can see on youtube he looks like he's running a different race.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Keen - 'do your own work' guy sounds comedically foolish. No half-decent runner in their right mind would turn down the offer of sharing the work across a race with a similar runner. I don't always have other runners to work with in races, but when I have, it's frequently resulted in a PB, and that's no coincidence. Aside from sharing the work into the wind, it can often provide competitive motivation, as well as distraction from the grind (and bear in mind I am a big introvert too!).
Re your upcoming HM, I think the trick is understanding what works best for you. Maybe you're someone who actually runs better with more mileage in the legs on race week? Gene Rand is a local guy who is a bit like that. He ran a 2:41 marathon recently having run 193km, 181km, 109km in the 3 weeks before race week and then had 50km already in race week before the race itself.
And I wouldn't be too concerned about the hills. There's no reason you can't PB on a hilly course as long as you run them regularly - and judging from Strava you generally have a decent hill or two in most of your runs. Making the most of the downhills is actually the key, I reckon.
Steve- thanks for the tip. I will have to look it up.
Intl. correspondent
Jmac - When I was at Times Square there’s this guy walking around with another dude filming him.
So he waits a bit and then his girlfriend arrives. After a bit, a quartet of strings arrives and starts playing some romantic songs.
Now everybody stops what they’re doing to see what’s up.
The guy gets on his knees and prepares to propose to his girlfriend while the quartet is still playing some tunes.
Everybody starts clapping for the happy couple. Except, she denies him, starts crying and goes away.
The guy walks around a bit spaced out.
I was almost 100% sure it was staged, but I never figured out why they’d do that.
Keen - If you’re not blue after the second mile of a 5K you’re doing it wrong haha
me - I'm in the states, San Jose, California. 2 weeks of on boarding at the customer's office, then I'll be back in Brazil and continue working from home, if all goes well
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
RIP Milkman
I feel like Piwi has posted this before, but this goes to what Steve what does talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llfcZUyTJGA
Watching this guy leading the race run along the blue lines is fascinating to me.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Ooh that makes me emotional just watching, such a great race. From what I understand now is that the blue line is the shortest path to the distance so maybe back then it wasnt ? I know the commentators were complimenting Kipchoge on running the blue line while his competition didnt always at London I think.
Flavio 50% of marriages in the US end in divorce so its probably for the best
Jmac one of our strava friends Jason Lufkin is in my town today but I missed him for a run today as I got his message too late. Hopefully he is still here tomorrow and I can take him for a jog,
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Piwi - yeah the first time I watched I just got hooked into the story and forgot why I was actually watching the video. Such a great finish by Dixon and incredible how you can see the other guy is just broken when Dixon runs him down.
JMac - this discussion is very timely given that this is the course for Sunday... mostly flat but VERY technical!
Flavio - Yup! Like I said, poorly executed. I'll do better next time.
JMac - I found that video after reading Steve's reply - I hadn't heard of Dixon before. Very impressive running, and perhaps more impressive that he was able to do that kind of math at about mile 23!None of the marathons in OK have that line painted, though I sure wish they did.
Mark - I agree about that guy. It kinda ticked me off when it happened, and I don't think I would have finished the race as fast as I did without the extra incentive of wanting to see just how much distance I could put between us. Have fun memorizing that course, or writing it on your palm!
Piwi/Mark/Blue Lines - The blue line in NYC is NOT the shortest path. It's just painted down the middle. In London, it actually is the shortest possible route (SPR). I never knew London had that but found it out after we started talking about this. Here's something from David Katz, the official measurer for the NYC and Olympic marathoners (same guy I sent out a few months ago):
Prior to the 1983 race (can't remember if it was a few weeks or a few days) Rod asked me to travel to New Zealand to measure some of their road courses. I explained the process which included measuring the shortest possible path (SPR) within 30 cm of kerbs and cones. Plus I told him it was unlikely that any runner could run that SPR. He replied that he could.Fast forward to the final miles of the NYC Marathon. I'm at the finish line watching the race on our TV monitor as Rod is slicing ever tangent of the undulating roads in Central Park while Smith was running down the middle. His win was historic. I don't think he ran a single step faster then Smith, but he ran every step smarter!
One other question for the group (and Mark) especially since he's running a technical race: how do you handle hairpin turns? You definitely can't run the SPR like you could on an S type route.
Chicago has the SPR marked on their course I've heard, but I'm not certain of it.
I typically swing just a bit wide of a hairpin turn point (see dashed red line below) so that I don't have to slow down as much, which I think more than makes up for the extra bit of distance in this case.
For a technical course like the one Mark is running I've found that looking way ahead to see which side of the road runners ahead of me are disappearing around helps with running tangents when I either can't 100% see the next turn and/or don't have it memorized.
Full credit goes to DWave who just posted this in the sub-3:20 thread:
Keen - What is the green line? I tend to run dotted red like you. What about L shaped turns? Those are somewhat similar, and I think I tend to run a little wider. I'm always worried I'm going to pull my calf or something if I take it too sharp, plus it definitely slows you down.
JMac - That's how you'd take the curve if you were in an auto-race. Taking a 90* turn depends a bit on what's after the turn. Is the next turn in the same direction as that one, or is it going the other way?
If it's on the same side I'll swing just a bit wide so it's easy to straighten out right next to the curb. If the next turn is the other way I'll take it a little tighter and let momentum carry me a bit more into the road along the line to that next turn. How close to the curb I take the turns depends on the road condition, too. If it's slanted too aggressively toward the curb or if there is a drain I'll usually go a little wider to avoid that, unless it's one I've run before and I have a high certainty that nothing bad will happen if I cut it close. I'll also typically go around puddles if possible. No sense in adding weight to my shoes and a blister risk if it's not a trail race.
I would generally take the red dashed line as well. IMO this is the right balance between an efficient angle and not decelerating too much. The problem I would have with the green line is that I feel like the sharper turn (or at least it looks sharper) would require a significant drop in speed. So, pretty much the same thinking as Keen.
The helpful thing about the Dunedin Half doubling as NZ Half Marathon Champs is that there should be a pretty good field of fast runners - meaning I will be able to watch how quicker runners in front take the corners!
Keen - I have no idea how I'm gonna get that course down. I'm leaning towards printing a shrunken version of the image to keep in my pocket just in case. With a reasonably deep field, there should hopefully always be someone in front to watch, but a course error would still suck. Plus being NZ HM Champs they may have extra marshals on too from Athletics NZ.
And yep, I am totally with you on avoiding the puddles if reasonably possible!
Hi guys, I'm still running! Sorry for the absence, it's been pretty hectic here at both home and work after my trip to Norway. First of all, great races by Mark, Marco, and Keen! Piwi, good to see you are running even if it doesn't all make it onto Strava (although I'm not sure if it actually happened if it isn't there ).
I am still trying to work through a sore hamstring that I think happened when I did intervals and reps Tuesday after my last HM, immediately followed by our flight to Norway (did the intervals early afternoon, got on the flight in the evening). It's sore at the very top (probably has something to do with where it is attached), but I have yet to be really hampered by it when running. Sitting sucks though, especially when I have to go to the bathroom, which also could be used as an excuse for not posting more here . I ended up cutting my miles somewhat while in Norway, it was just too difficult to get it all done with travel and family and friend obligations, but only missed one workout. Coming back here everything felt off for close to a couple of weeks (including a tempo workout where everything fell apart),but I seem to have finally found my stride again. Last week I had an M and T-pace workout that felt too hard (but I completed it), and a 20-miler on Saturday where I felt good and I had plenty of juice left in the legs at the end. Yesterday I had another M and T-pace workout where everything was clicking and I went from questioning my training program to being hopeful about a 3:15 finishing time in Amsterdam.
This weekend I am running in a HM race, but it's just to get some company for my planned 14-mile m-pace workout (I guess it will be 13.1 miles). It makes for good practice at running with lots of people, managing fueling and drinking stations, etc. I will run at 7:20-25 pace, which is pretty much equal to a 3:15 marathon finishing time. And if I'm lucky I get to meet Flavio afterwards as he's in the area for his new job!
Anyway, here are my workouts from last week. Looking forward to hanging out here more again!
Weekly SummaryMonday, Aug 27, 2018 thru Sunday, Sep 02, 2018
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it