Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018
Hot Weather Complainer
Interesting - I would hope I'll be in the 50-70 miles bracket when I step up to marathon training but I might cross that bridge when I come to it. I'd be very happy with anything under 3:20.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Yeah, I've thought that same thing many times JMac, the human body is a pretty remarkable thing. Extremely grateful for decent orthopaedic surgery and rehab too - all I have to show for it now are two distinctly different-looking knees and a minor residual strength imbalance. And a couple of anchors in the top of my knee where they realigned the patellar tendon, although those are only noticeable to the touch.
Ah this is why you are so fast Mark. They probably put a carbon fibre spring plate in there like with the Nike 4%
Jmac those formula look about right. No way someone can hold pace in the last 1/3 of a marathon if the mileage hasnt been met.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
I think JMacs is about right. Although sometimes people do a relatively big volume cycle for a marathon which would also drop their half time too. E.g. 40 mile a week 1:30 half guy averages 60 miles a week over a marathon cycle. He could now (but does not) run a 1:27 half. He then runs 3:07 (= 87 * 2.15) but using his half PR he has a ratio of 2.08.
That pretty much happened to me first marathon. Half PR of 1:31:24, and ran 3:09:28 giving a 2.07 ratio. Admittedly the marathon course is a quick course.
Piwi - was your house a turn key? Or involved the whole way with design, decisions etc? We were the later.
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Intl. correspondent
Steve - the marathon is a beast and hard to compute. But what I've seen in the past is that there are basically 2 groups of people:
1 - They lack the necessary muscle endurance to complete a marathon. These are the people like me, no matter your 18 minute 5K PR, sub 3 is a pipe dream. Longest I could go before the body broke down was 39K when running 60 miles a week in average. These people have to work on muscle endurance by running big miles and strength training. When they have sufficient muscle endurance their shorter race times will start to translate. Then they can move to the next group...
2 - Those who are strong as bulls and have sufficient muscle endurance/über strong cores. People like Piwi who can do series of 10 pull ups whenever he feels like. Or Jmac or Keen. These will suffer then from cardio/speed endurance limits. They are one step ahead and likely will benefit more from MP runs and workouts. Since they are already beastly strong, they can work to improve speed endurance.
Any of these predictor formulas generally apply better to the second group. Though there was a spreadsheet floating around which took mileage and race day weather in consideration, but I can't seem to find it.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
RIP Milkman
Steve - If you'd be happy with anything under 3:20, then go for that. A marathon is much more enjoyable when you take it a bit conservative at the start and then negative split, as we've been saying. But to Watson's point, those ratios work off your recent half, not what you ran 3 months before training. If I ran a half before I started marathon training this year, it would have been right around 1:22 based off my 10K in June. However, I think I'm in about 1:18 shape right now based off my recent 10 miler, so I take 1:18, multiply by 2.15 (I averaged 59 miles for this cycle), and voila you get why I'm going for just under 2:50 (formula has me at 2:47:45 but need to add in a couple of minutes for hills/bridges in NYC course).
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Very interesting discussion. Flavio, I suspect I'm in the same group as you but I guess I will find out!
I feel like I'll be coming off a pretty good base if I do get through the next 5 weeks and get close to 90 mins. I've gone back over my training this year and I should be in the best shape I've been. Confidence I think took a slight knock last week running in warmer weather.
JMac, you must be in amazing shape. Good luck on Sunday. Based on what I've read about NYC I feel like it would be hard to PB in that with everything you have to go through at the start. Certainly not the same as the last time I PB'd when I lived a 15 minute walk from the start/finish and could time everything exactly as I wanted without needing any contingency. So you should start your clock at about -5:00 minutes! It's only fair.
JMac's FM calculator was pretty close for me. My HM PB at the time was 1:18 but all my recent races had been around 1:20. On about 50 miles per week and using 2.2 that would be 2:56.
Steve - I'd definitely go more conservative for a first marathon to start with like JMac says. It's a big learning experience and it'd be better to go easy and negative split it. I'd decided I had to get sub-3 and felt amazing on the day and went out too quick (even though I felt great)... paid for it in the last 7-8km's but still hung in there (just). Those last few km were an absolute death march and not something I'd ever like to repeat.
One of the best moments in Sunday's half was actually running past the turnoff for the full marathon and straight towards the finish line. I can still remember that turnoff in the full last year... it was about that point it dawned on me I was only halfway through the race and still had a loooong way to go!
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
The Auckland Marathon pics are up. They're kinda expensive as usual but there is one photo there that I pretty much had to buy. I may never manage as good a photo as this in a race ever again. This was right at the top of the Harbour Bridge. I remember pulling this face and throwing the horns at the time but I had no idea they'd manage to get an airtime shot into the bargain.
Watson our build was a full contract so all completed when we moved in. It was with a small company basically one guy with a helper so was pretty flexible.
Flavio really Im in the beastly strong group ? Why thankyou
Steve Im going to do an 18 week marathon cycle averaging around 100kms/week. I will go into this with about 10 weeks at 80 kms/week. I would consider this buildup a minimum but I have fairly high expectations as far as I dont want to just finish etc.
Great photo Mark and I like the forum name on the shirt. Im going to get a custom Piwikiwi top made for Brighton next year. Ugh yeah I remember that turnoff in the Auckland Marathon. I saw my family just after that and that was where feeling good ended as I carried on to the long out and back along Tamaki Drive.
Jmac not long to go, excited for you.
I managed a tempo this morning 10kms with 7@tempo and my calf was fine.
I promise I will post my RR sometime soon, I'm almost done writing, but figured I'd give an update after I saw my leg doctor today. The diagnosis is left proximal hamstring tendinosis, and it needs time to heal. I'm probably looking at a minimum of 3 months away from running, which will give me plenty of time to get better at swimming, or something else that doesn't aggravate the injury. Strength training will follow at some point but I will have to see a PT first to get the right exercises to do at the right time. The path forward right now is icing 3 times a day, very light stretching, and as little sitting as possible (good thing my office has an open standing desk station right now). I'll still try to hang out here as much as I can though.
Steve - I think 2 x HM time + 15 minutes is a good starting point, and then you can work from there.
Mark - Great photo and great race!
Watson - Good to see you're back again.
Piwi - Good to hear your calf is better
JMac - Your foot is fine . Just remember last year how worried you were and how sure you were you had a stress fracture...
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
piwi, that sounds like an awful lot and maybe more than my body can handle...then again, I'll have about 6 months, or maybe 5 after a light month after the next half and I'm currently at 70km/week so it isn't a huge jump.
Piwi- a lot of races do personalised bibs by default now. At this point I'm too superstitious to change the nickname (it got me a podium finish the first time I used it and has been generally good to me ever since), aside from which it would confuse all the Running Events crew that know me as 'Marky Mark' (helpful differentiator from Mark Boyce who does a few of their events too haha).
Rune - sorry to hear the sucky news about the injury. Please hang around here as I'm sure we'll all miss your consistently excellent pics on Strava over the next few months! Most of us have been there with injury issues at points in time.
Steve - the key is really building mileage up gradually and still allowing the odd down week for recovery. At 70km/week you have a good starting point. I did most of 2016 at 60-70km/week, then built it up to 70-80 over the first half of 2017, and as high as 80-90 when I was training for the marathon in the second half of 2017. The first few times I did 70km's in a week I was pretty knackered (and similarly when I started doing 80+). These days if I do an 80km week I'm pretty sweet as long as the balance of training is right.
Mark - I expect your future pictures to be in Vaporflies
Rune - Look at that xray I posted! It seemed like a legit diagnosis. Anyway, really sorry to hear about your hamstring injury. As I stated on Strava, important to stay positive. And I agree with Mark - keep posting on Strava and don't disappear, we've all enjoyed your posts.
Steve - You're going to see significant gains if you can average 100 KM/week, but it's a lot to average since it means you'll need weeks around 115KM to make up for short weeks. For now, the most important thing for you is to get consistent. I averaged 60 miles for my marathon, but I made sure I was doing 40-50 MPW consistently before moving up to my peak of 75 miles. In KM, I would say the goal should be to increase your weekly KM by 10 each month. I like taking a down week after 3 up weeks, and it sounds like you could with your injury history as well. Some people, like Mark, are machines and can just keep mileage up all the time. More normal folk like me you and Piwi can't. So do something like 60 60 60 40, 70 70 70 50, 80 80 80 50, etc. Goal is to slowly build up your KM.
Cobra Commander Keen
Rune - Sucks about the injury, but hopefully recovery/rehab goes well. Please stick around!
Steve - You can (almost certainly) handle a lot more volume than you think you can. That's something I've learned this cycle. Year-to-date I have averaged ~10mi/16km more per week than I did in the 16 weeks prior to any of my previous marathons, and this cycle has been ~20mi/32km /wk higher than those other cycles. Yes, it takes some time to gradually build up and seems daunting at the outset, but after a while you adjust and it's not bad at all.
JMac - You have a pretty low bib number for NYC, right?
I tried some jackets on at a bike shop last week, plus looked through the website of a company who made some I liked. None of the jackets at the shop worked - they were all either wind breakers or WAY too heavy - but it helped to check the sizing. I'm thinking about trying a Castelli Transition jacket if/when a shop gets some in. From the online description and the fit of the others I tried (quite slim, with long enough sleeves!) that might be what I'm looking for. The downsides are that it's ~$180, and the cycling cut means the back is a bit long while the front scoops up around the waist.
I wimped out on some easy miles at the end of my T run this morning. I was nicely cool on the run until some unexpected rain blew in, which I certainly wasn't dressed for - unlike the last time it was raining during a workout.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Keen - My bib is 1706. Technically I should be in the "local competitive" corral but I had no idea how to apply for it and missed the boat, which would have put me into the triple digits. Either way, I'm in the front most corral and lowest section of numbers you can be in without being an elite, so that's cool. I'm sure someone will track me over on sub 3, but it's here: https://liveresults.nyrr.org. Marathon tracking for NYC really is the best I've ever seen, as they actually give you splits every single mile. I feel like when I track other people, it's rare to even get splits every 5K.
On your jacket comment, I went looking for jackets this past weekend. Even the small at most companies is way too big or baggy for me. I don't feel your pain with the height issue given I'm only 5'9", but it's horrible for runners.