Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018 (Read 704 times)

runethechamp


    Bros - I agree with the others, with your times on the shorter distances and your long run you should be able to reach 3:15 easily, especially if you can stay injury free.

     

    Watson - Nice result on your race! You're coming back very nicely now.

     

    Piwi - Nice result for you too! With the weather, the stairs, and coming off a cold earlier in the week I consider your time in that race to be very strong. On the other hand, where's that Gaga outfit? 

     

    Mark - Good week and nice workouts!

     

    Marco - Good to see you're getting nicely back in the swing of things.

     

    Corey - Nice week. 10 miles at m-pace is a good workout. When it comes to building mileage, I like Jack Daniels' approach of only adding one extra stress factor at a time. So if you are increasing mileage, don't add in other workouts at the same time, and add the mileage with easy miles, not by increasing hard mileage.

     

    JMac - Nice week and nice race for you too. Super strong finish to the race as well!

     

    CK - Nice week and very interesting info on the stryd data. GPS certainly isn't that accurate on a track!

     

    Lucky me, everybody is having a down week mileage wise (although I don't know how far you ran last week Bros - welcome btw!), so I'm at or near the top in this forum in number of miles this week. Ended up at 51.4 miles, a new weekly record for me, and towards the end of the week I finally felt somewhat fresh again. On my Sunday run, 8:10 (5:05) pace was well within my easy range, which I define as HR less than 145. I was also wondering this week how much effect it has for me to split up my weekend long run. This week I was planning on doing 14-15 miles on Saturday but I came home too late after taking my oldest son to a baseball showcase so I only did 5. Then on Sunday I did 10+ to get to my desired total. Personally I don't think it matters much at this stage, but once I get into the actual training program I obviously will make sure I get the long runs in.

     

    Weekly Summary
    Monday, May 28, 2018 thru Sunday, Jun 03, 2018

    <tfoot> </tfoot>
    Day Miles Pace Duration Description HR Egain Link
    Mon 1.2 10:45 0:13 Afternoon Run 119 (62%) 7 strava
    Mon 5.3 9:40 0:51 Evening Run 139 (72%) 754 strava
    Tue 5.8 8:56 0:52 Morning Run 141 (73%) 216 strava
    Wed 7.5 9:01 1:07 Lunch Reps 139 (72%) 133 strava
    Wed 2.5 10:03 0:25 Evening Run 120 (63%) 67 strava
    Thu 7.0 8:32 1:00 Lunch Run 136 (71%) 140 strava
    Fri 6.2 8:29 0:53 Afternoon Run with some faster miles 138 (72%) 189 strava
    Sat 5.2 9:25 0:49 Evening Run 124 (65%) 277 strava
    Sun 10.5 8:13 1:26 Afternoon Run 139 (72%) 232 strava
      51.4   7:38     2015  

    5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)

     

    Getting back into it

      Bros - Welcome back. 18 miles @7:33 no issues? I don't see you having issues breaking 90, especially given your other PRs. To me that seems really fast for a LR that doesn't have a workout component (MP miles, etc.) in it.
      One thing I didn't see you mention was nutrition for the marathon. I've never hit the wall before, but in my last marathon I took an extra couple gels compared to my first two and felt much better during the latter miles and after the race.

       


      Hey! You can check my running log next to my avatar to check the stats.   The 18-miler felt way too easy.  I was shocked to look at my watch to see a few 7:20 miles when I was consciously trying to just keep it easy and not push.   I did take a GU at mile 12 and stopped once (10-15 seconds) to have some water at mile 15.    Using the Daniel's plan, I don't have any marathon-pace runs until August...but I do have a lot of threshold/tempo work before that. 

       

       

      7th week! Wow, is this a 24 week plan? I thought 18 week plans for marathon training are possibly too long, didn't know they went that long.

       

      If you're putting in 60-80 mpw, I think 3:15 is a very conservative number given your shorter distance times. But you're right, we won't know until you run something longer like a 10 miler or half to see what kind of shape you're in. Just FYI - I don't really trust long run times just because they're not real workouts. Put another way, I was doing my long runs of 21-22 miles at 8:05 pace this summer with five to six 30 second stops for water, and I still came in at sub 3 for the race. I think it's better to use a race, or his TLT workouts, to judge where you're at, because I've also seen the opposite is true where people say they can do 20 miles at sub 7 and then come nowhere close to breaking 3.


      Yes, it's the 24 week plan from his second edition book.  The only real variation from his plan is that I want to do a few 8x200 FAST reps maybe once a week with full recovery to keep in touch with my mile/5K speed.  After the marathon, I want to race a few 5K's off that fitness and see what kind of results I get.   I've always been more low-mileage/high intensity guy (especially 5 to 6 years ago when I did lots of 200's and 400's on the track) and neglected tempo work.   Time to bring some new stimulus in and see what happens.  

      I'm also envious that you are running NYC.  Maybe if Chicago goes well, I'll consider throwing myself into the lottery.

      JMac11


      RIP Milkman


        I'm also envious that you are running NYC.  Maybe if Chicago goes well, I'll consider throwing myself into the lottery.

         

        Or just go out there and run a sub 1:21 half this year 

        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

         

         

          Rune congrats on the 50 miles. The long run is best kept as one run but like you say at this stage it doesnt really matter as long as you get some long single runs in the future. Golden State looking unbeatable at the moment . Is there a Lady gaga clause for wind/hills exception times ?

           

          Keen excuse my ignorance but what is this Stryd stuff ? I could google.....but I will let you do the hard explaining 

           

          Bros if you can bring your endurance in line with the 17.30 5k then low 2.50s are possible. I ran 2.54 with 17.30 5k form. The marathon plan should help nicely.

           

          Jmac 30 miles and sore calves...we are twins in different hemispheres . That staircase is sooo shit. They put it in about 2 years ago as it was going to cost too much to remove and strengthen the slip area. Problem is every race here runs around that track which is one of the most popular walking tracks in NZ and any times/PRs from previous races are out of reach now. I got a photo of the beast somewhere...

           

          55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

          " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

          Somewhere in between is about right "      

           

          Marky_Mark_17


            Bros - welcome back!

             

            Rune - nice week and probably not a biggie splitting up your LR as you are not in your actual training program yet.

             

            CFarr - solid week... I suspect Piwi and JMac will be of more us on the marathon front than me!

             

            JMac - I really want to take down my 5k and 10k PRs, but there aren't a lot of suitable races around here.  Actually considering flying to Wellington or possibly driving to Cambridge.

             

            Piwi - Stryd is the power/wattage based training system that Dan (Iamdisappoint) and Mick off the sub-3 forum use.  I don't really know anything about it but it's clearly been very effective for Dan.

             

            Keen - 44 miles is pretty good if you're saying it was a slightly lazy week!! In terms of long runs, I go out of my way to find decent trail sections to include, they are a nice break from the streets and make the long runs more interesting/less boring.  There's a lot of random little spots dotted around home, a guy I know posted a run a few weeks ago which was ~21k and over 11k would've been on trails, not bad considering it is basically suburbia the whole way.

            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

            * Net downhill course

            Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48

            Up next: Runway5, 4 May

            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

            CommanderKeen


            Cobra Commander Keen

              Rune - Great job on the mileage PR, even more so that you were feeling so good late into it.


              Piwi - Stryd is a running power meter. Very handy for pacing, especially uphill. And the distance it calculates is also much more accurate than the ~2% error of GPS. Every so often one needs to do a test to help make sure zones are set accurately. It doesn't actually measure power like a cycling power meter does, but rather estimates it using a bunch of accelerometers. But it is consistent enough to be very useful. I think there are a couple guys in the sub-3 forum who have used it with great success.


              Mark - I'd love to run on some dirt trails but I don't really have that option. With the exception of the ~1.5mi XC course it's a 20 or so minute drive to get to any dirt trails. And those are right next to the lake with the flat, paved path that is basically the same as the surface of my fall marathon.


              My quads are a bit sore after those all-out efforts yesterday morning. Not bad, just enough to be noticeable. Not a complaint, just an observation since I don't typically get sore after any of my workouts. 
              Silly low HR during my run this morning, which was pretty awesome. Hopefully I'm getting more acclimated to the heat and humidity.

              5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

               

              Upcoming Races:

               

              OKC Memorial 5k - April 27

              Bun Run 5k - May 4

               

              JamesD


              JamesD

                I can still feel that my hamstring isn't right once or twice a day, so I'm into my third week without serious running. My arms seem to have adjusted to swimming 3x/week, and I'm gradually increasing my distance, so that's something.  Will start some gentle pool running once I don't notice the hamstring for a day or two. Am also doing a few leg-strengthening exercises each evening.  I made an appointment for tomorrow with the fancy local sports hospital/clinic (those of you who are U.S. baseball & football fans may know the name of Dr. James Andrews, who does Tommy John surgery on lots of pitchers; this is where he got his start).  However, the person I spoke with said their doctors only look at one issue per visit, so I decided it'd be better to have him look at my left knee -- a long-term problem that seems like it will be more difficult to address.  He'll probably send me to a physical therapist, who I can also ask about the hamstring.  It has been interesting looking online for information about hamstring treatment - some sources say to do nothing but rest, others say to start gentle exercise immediately, some say stretch, others say don't stretch.

                 

                Since I'm not running anyway, last weekend wound up being a good time to go to Las Vegas.  Main purpose was to see my wife's sister, who was visiting from Chile for a jewelry industry convention.  We don't gamble, so I just showed our son a little about how the casino games and sports betting work.  He's not enough of a math/cards geek to be seriously into it, and I'm just enough of one to know that I would have to learn much more about a game to play well.  Enjoyed a helicopter flight over the city, a tour of Red Rock Canyon, and a magic show.  Didn't enjoy all the cigarette smoke in the hotel lobby/casino.  Whichever one of you mentioned that the casino entrance (from outside) signs are a lot bigger than the exit (from inside) signs must have been at our hotel.

                 

                Congrats to all the racers, and good luck to those starting training plans.

                Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                '24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32

                watsonc123


                  Rune and Mark - good weeks.

                   

                  JMac and Piwi - once again, well raced.

                   

                  James - have you tried accupuncture on the knee.  About 10 years ago I had a very painful left ankle, and the most effective treatment was accupuncture deep into the joint.

                   

                  Bro - sub 3 should very achievable if you can AVERAGE 60+ miles per week.

                   

                  Piwi - Isaac has moved, he is now just out of Dunedin.

                   

                  Re crazy NZ courses that are not certified.  One of the many good things about the Christchurch event is the properly measured distance.

                  PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                   

                  40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                   

                  2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                   

                  2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                  watsonc123


                    Also

                     

                    Keen - good week.

                    PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                     

                    40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                     

                    2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                     

                    2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                    Marky_Mark_17


                      Watson - I know the CHC course was accurate distance-wise but was it actually certified?  The old pre-earthquake course had certification pre-earthquake but I'm not sure the current course is?  I seem to remember we had this discussion a few months ago and the only certified HM courses were Auckland, Wellington, Coatesville, and Rotorua (for the Marathon)... but my memory could be off.  But yes, we sure do have a lot of courses of questionable distance.

                       

                      Me - had to retire a pair of Saucony Kinvara 8's today.  I'd been getting that slightly tired foot feeling you get when shoes start to wear out (I notice it in the forefoot).  Anyway when I had a look at the sole, I discovered there was actually a chunk of glass as big as my little fingernail embedded in the middle of the forefoot!  No wonder they felt a bit off.  I took it out, out of curiosity and it left a pretty big hole.  Kinda lucky it wasn't any bigger or it might've gone all the way through!  I love the Kinvara's but I do find they start to get dead after ~500km whereas most shoes I can run for 600km+.

                      3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                      10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                      * Net downhill course

                      Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48

                      Up next: Runway5, 4 May

                      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                      watsonc123


                        Mark might be right, looking on the website, the course might not be certified.  I ran 21.32km according to Garmin.  On the courses that I have most faith in accurate distance, have been about 21.3km, except Sydney where Garmin got lost. In a good size field unless at the front, it is pretty much impossible to run the shortest route.

                         

                        My PR was on 21.0km (small number of runners) but a few people had 21.3km, so I hope it was accurate.

                        PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                         

                        40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                         

                        2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                         

                        2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                          Mark that sounds about right for Kinvara 500kms is typical. I bought one of the first versions in about 2011. They looked nice but this was when i found low drop hurt the skin under my feet.

                           

                          James cool holiday.

                           

                          Watson/Mark once again my race came up .1 short on strava. My mates Garmin got 10km.

                           

                          Keen gotcha on the stryd. Ive known Dan from the forums for years. Hes done really well training by power. Im a dinosaur and havent tried heartrate based running yet. I think its good to try different methods, even no watch at all !

                          55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

                          " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                          Somewhere in between is about right "      

                           

                          JMac11


                          RIP Milkman

                            Still fascinated by this course length discussion.

                             

                            My hip has gotten sore again. I don't think I injured it during those hills 2 weeks ago, but I definitely did something with my leg, as all of these tirgger points are popping up in my hip. Plus, my hamstring is sore in a weird spot and my knee hurt in a run for the first time in ages. I imagine I just have some knots in my hips from the hills and just need to keep working on it. I've gone all year since my injury recovery without any niggles/trigger points, so this is quite annoying to have to deal with again!

                             

                            Also working on building out my marathon training plan, not sure how aggressive I want to get in mileage. Going to just go with the flow I think and see how my legs feel.

                             

                            My 10K next week is a total crapshoot. I'm going to the US Open (golf) the day before, which will mean probably 10+ miles of walking, beer, bad nutrition, etc. That isn't exactly a recipe for a good race time the next day. I'm definitely in shape to PR, but I'm not going to count on it given what I'll be doing the day before and that we're getting into the hot and humid days of the year. I'll be happy with anything sub 40 haha. Also, check out this course profile, I've never seen a 10K with this many turns! The longest straight section must be less than 0.5 miles. Running the tangents is a must. https://liveresults.nyrr.org/e/NYRR-QUEENS-2018?_ga=2.40199978.904358913.1528297684-398161197.1500506609#/map

                            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                             

                             

                            runethechamp


                              Mark - Your shoe retirement post is a good reminder to myself that I probably need to retire a couple of pairs myself. I have two pairs of Hoka Clifton 3s that both have about 750 kms om them, and I actually notice that my ankles tend to get sore when I use them. I only use them on shorter, easier runs, but it might be a good idea to retire them all together. As I can't find this model anymore, and my last pair has about 350 kms on them, I will need to find some other shoes to noodle around in on my easy and long runs.

                               

                              Piwi - Yes, Golden State is looking good! And those stairs look brutal. And I consider the Lady Gaga outfit challenge to be on some sort of honor system, so you're probably good 

                               

                              James - Hope you get your knee figured out!

                               

                              JMac - Same with your hip/hammy/knee. I still consider myself injury free and I'm crossing my fingers it will last. And that course is crazy, especially for a 10k! Good luck on Sunday.

                               

                              Watson - If a course says it's certified now, I'm still leery. If it's a marathon and I want to use the race as a BQ I want to see the certification number and what the certified actual course is. I do not want any repeats of my experience in March!

                               

                              I took Monday off, ran 7 easy yesterday and 3.7 easy this morning (and my ankles are sore just from this). I have a workout with 8x400 reps at approximately mile pace this evening, and I'm realizing the start of the actual training program is creeping up on me. Less than 2 weeks to go before I have my first workout of 4 miles e-pace, 8 miles m-pace, 1 mile t-pace, and 1 mile easy to cool down. Jack Daniels sure knows how to kick off a training program properly!

                              5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)

                               

                              Getting back into it

                              watsonc123


                                Just checking on the Wellington Marathon - the 10km, half and full have IAAF certification.

                                JMac - how much volume is always a tricky question.  Some people seem to be fine all the way up to 100 MPW, but others fall apart at 60 MPW.

                                RR:

                                https://www.strava.com/activities/1621752576

                                Half marathon at the Christchurch Marathon.

                                Net 1:29:37
                                149th place out of 1574

                                This was my only my second race this year.  My only other race was a bit of a shocker,  being a well short half marathon (really 20km) on a hot day in March on a very slow course.  I ran 1:33 that day (so 1:38 half equivalent) which was a bit of a shock.

                                For this race, I wanted 1:29:59, but had no idea whether I could manage it.

                                Training had been a very short cycle of about 4 reasonable weeks (40-50 miles) plus a one week taper.  My tempo runs during this period had been around 4:30/km or 7:14/mile which did not state sub 90.  During my taper week, my tempo pace was better at about
                                4:12/km or 6:45/mile.

                                I ran the full at Christchurch in 2015, but the 2018 course was different.


                                Conditions were good, there'd been quite a bit of rain in the days leading up.  But the morning was good temperature (6-8 Celcius or 43-47 Farenheit), with almost no wind, and overcast.  The course is flat.

                                I drove there and parked about 1.2km / 0.75 miles away and walked.

                                At around 20 minutes to the start, took my race caffiene pills, took off my extra clothing and dropped off my bags.

                                I then did a very small warmup.  Only about 2-3 minutes, which is the shortest warmup I've done for a while.

                                Like 2015, in 2018 the 10km, half and full all start at the same time (8:00am).  In 2015 it was quite chaotic as I spent the first 1km overtaking walkers who must have placed themselves behind the elite mat.  This year it was much better, with the walkers having
                                to be at the back, and the starting area being much bigger.

                                I found the 1:30 pacer near the start and waited.  I must have looked nervous as he told me to relax for the first 10km.

                                Everyone then moves forward to the start line.  We have a moments silence for the late Dick Quax (Olympic silver medalist and 1984 Christchurch half winner).  Then the wheelchairs go, and one minute later the runners.

                                The first km was very busy with many runners, with the obligatory lot who started way too fast and were already slowing by the 1km mark.  I stuck in the 1:30 group, which seemed quite large.  At the 1km mark, one of the runners was complaining that we were too quick at 4:10, but the 1:30 pacer had 4:16, I told them I had 4:15, so we were all good.

                                The second km was 4:08, so I was worried we might be slightly quick.  In hindsight I suspect it was just GPS inaccuracy.

                                At around 4km we get to North Hagley park, which has a narrower running area as we're off the road.  We're still passing those who started too quick.  At around 5.5km, I notice that the caffeine is starting to be felt.

                                I am still worried about drifting from the sub 1:30 group (the track is narrow and there's still a lot of people slowing), so I make sure I don't get seperated by being caught behind the slowing runners.

                                A little later (just after 7km) through North Hagley we go through the Hagley hundy which timing mats 100 metres apart, where there are prizes for the quickest 3 men and 3 woman in every 15 minute slot.  One guy sprints past us.  Annoyingly, the race results show the hundy split but have no distance and pace for the pre and post hundy sections.

                                We then come back into the city centre.  At around 9.5km we turn left to go east, whereas the 10km runners head for finish.

                                Since the start, the official markers and Garmin drift apart.  So according to Garmin, we're marginally ahead of pace, but the official markers are exactly at pace.

                                We then get around to the river area, which is harder to run on.  In 2011, the city had a large earthquake, and this whole area around the river used to have houses, but not any more.  There's clearly been minimal repair on these roads too as there's pot holes and puddles everywhere.  The group is still large, so inevitably, my feet get wet.

                                I'm still holding pace.  I think I can go sub 90.

                                At around 16km, we split off from the marathoners and head back to the city centre.

                                We go through 17km, and for the first time in the race I take from the drinks station, just a little water to drink and pour over my head.

                                With about 2km to go, I'm confident of no bad fade, so I drift off the pacer.  I'm also a little worried about the markers being slightly out, and us being just over 1:30 pace too.

                                Pace is pretty good, I've quickened up a little.  Heading for home, and a woman on loud speaker is stating 600 metres to go.  I look at my watch and try to work out my time unsuccessfully .  I'm quickening up a little now.  This year the finish is around a small bend, so you only see the finish line with about 100 metres to go (although I knew where it was).  I run as hard as I can, stop my watch and see 1:29:40 on my watch (official 1:29:39).

                                I then see the sub 90 pacer come through at net 1:29:59 (great pacing), and I thank him.

                                I then bump into an RWOL poster who must have been near me the whole time.  And I go grab my gear and head off, quite pleased.



                                PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                                 

                                40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                                 

                                2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                                 

                                2024 PRs: 5km 20:25