Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018
Cobra Commander Keen
Watson - Nice RR, and your pacing looks really good. I really like the idea behind the Hagly Hundy. Do you have any plans for what's next?
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Watson - nice RR and good job on the race. Your pacing was really consistent throughout - even though it's a flat course there's a lot of corners in there as far as I can see which would've messed with the pacing a little. Good stuff considering you had a relatively short build-up and probably a real confidence builder after your last race.
TBH I've never used caffeine pills as I feel like they'd add to my already excessive number of pre-start bathroom breaks!
I'm considering lining up a 10km race to try for a PR takedown - ideally one alongside a HM or full because that tends to attract a good field. Christchurch or Wellington would've been options but I had to help my sister in law move house last weekend and I'm busy the weekend of Wellington too. Dunedin in early September is an option but a long way to go for a 10km race. There is actually one in Pukekohe in mid-Oct that could be a goer, would be a good tune-up prior to the Auckland half.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
RIP Milkman
I really do love reading race reports, always happy when someone takes the time to write one. Watson - good work especially on the light training. I really would love to see what you could do with a consistent block of mileage (eg average 40+ miles over a 6 month period). I'm going to shoot for averaging 60 over the 15 weeks prior to taper. Number one requirement is health of course.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Watson nice race report. You paced extremely sensibly and got the result. You now know your tempo pace is 4.10/km for future workouts.
Mark nice on the 10k race as it will give you more training motivation.
Jmac Ive been in 8 10k roadraces and they have all been a bit nasty as far as hills etc. In 2014 I got pissed off with my lack of 10k progress so went to the track and ran a 36.44 10 000m solo time trial which was 15 secs faster than any 10k roadrace I had done. Considering no race atmosphere/adrenalin etc I was really pleased with that result. On the track you can just lock into an aggressive 10k pace and hold.
Good luck anyway !
Here is one of my non paying photos from the weekend
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Piwi - I have always struggled to hit the "correct" workout pace during training. The taper and race day magic seems to do more for me than most people. My PR was 4:05/km pace, but my training tempo pace at the time was more like 4:15/km. Training fatigue definitely drops my pace.
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Watson - I am definitely noticing the training fatigue now I have upped the mileage again. I used to be able to hit 8-10km tempo's at HMP but now probably the most I could sustain would be 2x3km based on the pace from my last race. The volume definitely makes a big difference.
Piwi - I get your frustration re 10k road races. There actually aren't that many flat courses around which is kind of what you want for a 10km course. The Albany Lakes course where I set my PB has a nasty hill at the back of the course and is a two-lapper, so it doubly sucks on the second lap.
Mark - there is a small monthly flat 10km race in Wellington. Flat course, would be quick in a southerly, not so much in a northerly! "Honest 10k" (legit distance) series. Start by Oriental Bay gym & pool, go down Oriental Bay then Evans Bay to Cobham Drive, then return.
Watson/Mark Ive done the Hamilton Half 10k twice ( where I was supposed to meet Watson one year but I did a no show ) which is quite hilly and the others have all involved the Mount Maunganui base track..
Watson theres something badass about people who train slow but race fast. I probably say this as Im one of the slowest daily runners on my Strava feed often running between 5-5.30/km. This is not a dig at Mark who trains fast and races even faster but more at the hordes of runners who train at 4.30/km pace with no warm up kms but dont break 20 mins for 5k.
Piwi: I train slow and race slow You do look a bit tired on the photo this time not like on the park run photo! Hope you had a good time there.
Watson: great RR thank you. Great pacing too. I usually take an ibuprofein and a coffein pill as my EPO light. And I try to drink or just wash some Gatorade through my mouth at the stations. Its proven to boost performance even if you spit it back out. Dont ask me how but the brain basically gives the body the signal that the electrolytes are there and to digg deeper. The ibuprofein just increases pain tolerance or decreases perceived effort - both resulting in the ability to run harder. How many mg of caffeine do you take?
Me: PT did some dry needling which did nothing. I think the resting was good. I did a 5k jogg yesterday on the bouncy track near work at an appalingly slow pace and felt ok afterwards. I did feel the calf during the jogg so will pause a few days before doing another slow stroll. I hope to be able to slowly return because cycling sucks big time. Not a big fan of cross training (other than tennis).
HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)
2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!
MJ - You may want to keep up with dry needling. It takes me 4-6 sessions before I get the relief. It's sort of like rolling out a knot: you're not going to get it done in one session.
Piwi - My easy pace has changed by about 15 seconds per mile over the years, yet my PRs have changed by over 1 minute per mile. I was definitely in that group that ran them too fast. I think I'm about right now though (depending on the day, run them about 60 seconds per mile slower than marathon pace).
Mark - I didn't know you were upping mileage. What are you looking to get to/sustain at?
Tempo Speed - Speaking of tempo pace, I've been having a hard time dialing back my tempo pace. I should be doing my cruise intervals at 6:10 per mile, but they keep coming in right around 6:00, with some intervals in the 5:55 range. I'm trying to just go by feel, but clearly that is leading to them being too quick. I'm not too worried though, once I enter marathon training and need to do tempo work after running 8 miles, I'm sure my body will adjust to the slower pace. EDIT: Just want to make clear, this wasn't a humble brag of any sort. It's actually an issue I'm struggling with and there's a lot of literature to suggest that I'm harming myself by running 10 seconds per mile faster than I have to for tempo runs.
Piwi - I'm right there with you on slow training paces. I'm about 8:25/mi (5:15/km) these days unless I'm doing a workout. At the same HR/effort I'll be in the 7:50-8:00 min/mi ($:52-5 /km) in the fall, though. Temperatures really affect my paces. My PRs are quite a bit slower than yours, though! Just give me time and mileage...
Mick - I'm a big fan of RRs as well. bibbz.net has a ton if you get bored, it is mostly ultras right now, though.
Mark - Count me as another who's curious about your planned volume.
JMac - I got the intention the first time around.
"Mick", "Mark", "Mac" Lots of "M's" on the board!
10ks - I really liked the one I ran earlier this spring and am looking forward to the next time I run one. These aren't nearly as common around here as 5ks, so it'll probably be mid-December before I can run one given my upcoming training. It's a race I've wanted to run for years, but never have been able to. 2x 5k laps around a small local college, very flat and fast. For people who have run either the 5k or 10k there more than once they give out bonus shirts for anyone who beats their PR from that course in a previous year, or who beats the equivalent time if someone steps up/down in distance.
Yesterday I was putting my marathon plan into my Garmin Calendar and when seeing paces for workouts I got the same "sh!t that's fast" thought I did this spring for my HM plan. At least that one taught me I could do things faster than I thought at the time, so the panic didn't last quite as long. The thought "So..Much..Threshold..." also occurred to me. I'm actually looking forward to that part, though. My goal race is really flat, so I'm thinking of doing all my LR and workouts on the track or some other super-flat trail and leave rolling hills to my easy days. Specificity and all that.
Watson - I agree with the others, very well paced race by you and nice RR! The pace increase at the end is impressive.
Piwi - Nice race face!
Mark - Tell us more! (about the volume increase)
Regarding workout paces, I try to hit them at the correct pace, and I usually do, but especially shorter ones can go too fast (see below). On the other hand, my easy pace is mostly slow now, especially before and after workouts. Now we'll see how this all works out when I start my program.
I did one more of my leg strengthening workouts yesterday. 8x400 reps, and I ended up running all the reps too fast. On the other hand, I didn't really feel my form suffering until the last rep so I think it was ok. 400 splits were between 1:20 and 1:26, average right below 1:24. Did a full set of Kenyan drills beforehand as well, and today my ankles are sore as heck, especially my left one. But I think that is to be expected with a considerable amount of time and distance spent with my feet striking the ground farther forward than they usually do.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Marky_Mark_17 - When you did your marathon on the Daniels Plan, did you bomb/flop/fail several of the workouts? The reason I ask is that if I'm doing two quality workouts a week, it seems that one ends up going bad while the other is great. And it's not like I'm running too hard on my easy days in that I can't recover, it seems like I'm just not able to nail them like the workouts I typical prescribe on my own. Is the point of the Daniels plan to "harden" you so to speak? I don't remember flopping so many workouts in my near decade of running. I don't think mileage is the problem either...I've hit close to 60 a few times this year and don't feel like it's too much of a physical burden.
JMac - maybe try starting your tempo at 6:20 pace? So aim to be a tad slower early on.
Piwi - LOL.
Keen - what plan are you following?
Bro - I know you didn't ask me specifically, but the JD workouts are supposed to all be paced at whatever a person should be able to do at their current fitness, rather than to be paced faster than current fitness in order to "harden" one up.
Watson - It's a Daniels' 2Q plan. The first month the mileage is all at/under 55mi/wk, then everything else until the taper is 60-61mi/wk excepting cutbacks. That's actually less mileage than what I plan on doing (~65mi/wk) between now and when the plan starts (in about 5 weeks), so I may end up adding in some easy miles.