Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018
Bro - I know you didn't ask me specifically, but the JD workouts are supposed to all be paced at whatever a person should be able to do at their current fitness, rather than to be paced faster than current fitness in order to "harden" one up.
What I'm seeing is massive variation in what I was able to do a few weeks as to what I'm able to do know. I was able to do 9x1K at 6:00 flat threshold pace a few weeks back, but today's 40 minute threshold was a 6:49 pace. I was thinking 6:23-6:33 at least...so it was a bummer. I'm wondering if a bump in mileage had anything to do with it.
JMac/Keen - haha I think I might've conveyed the wrong impression there. ATM I'm averaging 75-80km/week training for HM's. This is with normally 3 workouts in there as well. Previously for HM's I was more around the 65km mark - for the marathon I was ~85km/week but with fewer/less intense workouts.
Bro - I didn't really follow any specific plan for the marathon I did last year. I've got a coach and basically just follow the weekly plans she sets. There were typically a couple easy runs, a long run (initially ~25km, peaking at ~35km), and a couple workouts. I was OK with the workouts but I was used to doing 3 workouts or so each week. There were a couple times when I really had to dig it in, typically when I had a workout early in the week coming off a high mileage weekend. The run I struggled with most was actually the long run the week after the 35km-er. I think it was ~25-26km and the second half was absolutely miserable.
10ks - OK this is where it gets tricky. I have the Taupo HM on Sat 4 Aug which is a goal race. Then North Shore HM on 2nd Sept (only doing it because I got a really cheap earlybird entry, not a focus). Then Devonport HM on 30 Sept. Then Auckland HM on 28 Oct.
The options are:
11 Aug - Clyde/Alexandra Road Race. Looks super fun (starts on a hydro dam!) but might be a bit soon after Taupo. Requires a flight but could do it as a day trip since the race is at 2pm.
25 Aug - Mt Maunganui. Fast except for the stupid Mt. base track.
9 Sept - Dunedin. Looks flat and fast but could be bloody cold and it's an expensive flight. Finishes in the stadium which could be fun.
16 Sept - Cambridge. Looks fairly flat and on-road with one small hill. Conveniently only a couple hours drive from home.
14 Oct - Pukekohe. No idea what the course will be yet. Area is flat with a few undulations. Conveniently only 1 hours drive from home!
There's a couple more in November too.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Cobra Commander Keen
Extra mileage could absolutely do that, particularly if you bumped up fairly quickly. I haven't checked your log yet, so that's just the first thing to come to mind. What's the weather like in your AO now vs when you were doing the faster workouts? Personally, heat (especially with a high dew point) crush me. 55* vs 75* for me is probably worth about 30 sec/mi.
Mark - Three workouts per week? What do those look like? I vote for Cambridge!
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Would be interesting to hear how long your recovery breaks were between those 1000s as well. On the other hand, your 5k PB indicates a threshold pace at 6:04, so the 6:00 seems reasonable.
If I read his tables correctly there's also about a 13 second per mile pace difference at that pace between a 20 minute tempo effort pace and one that lasts for 40 minutes. That doesn't bring you to 6:49 though...
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Mark I did that 10k last year at the Mount. I got 9.8km on Strava and you will lose about 1 min to stairs/hills. I may do the half in that event.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Keen - normally it's 3 out of: hill reps, tempo workout, longer intervals (e.g. 3x2km) or shorter intervals on the track (e.g. 800m repeats).
Piwi - amazing how your picture of those dumb stairs has put me off the Mount lol. To be honest if I'm going to travel more than a couple hours for a 10km, it's basically got to be something special e.g. flat/fast or some super cool course (like the Clyde to Alexandra one). Watson's suggestion of the Honest 10km would be perfect if the conditions were good and it didn't require a flight, there really isn't an equivalent in Auckland strangely. There is the Run Auckland series over winter but that is a mix of all sorts of terrain.
I think Keen is right, the Cambridge one looks like a definite goer, but I'm seriously tempted to do the Clyde to Alexandra one as well. I have a ton of Airpoints to use from when I was travelling heaps for work last year. The only question is whether I'd be recovered enough from the Taupo HM a week earlier.
Mark theres this one on Rotorua but looks to be only 1 week after Auckland Half http://rotoruahalfmarathon.com/10k/
Looks flat as with a portion through the sulphur flats.
Piwi yeah that one is definitely an option too. It’s actually 4 weeks after Auckland so no issues there. A week before Omaha but that should be fine for recovery for a 10km.
RIP Milkman
Bro - I did Daniels 2Q for my marathon last year. I definitely saw some of my paces decrease through the plan, but that was because (as Keen alluded to) that the weather was getting worse. There were some workouts I was doing in 80 degree heat plus 65 degree dew point. You need to use a pace adjust or for that (Temp plus dew point is a great one). You should notice that the workouts get harder, as I was alluding to. For example, 6x1K with only 2 warmup is much easier than 6x1K with 8 warmup. You should be using paces that correlate with your fitness around that level. Put another way: It’s okay if you’re a fast twitch guy and do your I pace at faster than the equivalent M pace at that VDOT. However, given it’s marathon training, it’s okay for your I pace to be at the equivalent marathon VDOT.
I’d be happy to keep talking Daniels as I used it last fall and a) loved it and b) using it again this fall.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Another 10km option for Mark is Wellington round the bays in February. Quick field.
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Bro - I did Daniels 2Q for my marathon last year. I definitely saw some of my paces decrease through the plan, but that was because (as Keen alluded to) that the weather was getting worse. There were some workouts I was doing in 80 degree heat plus 65 degree dew point. You need to use a pace adjust or for that (Temp plus dew point is a great one). You should notice that the workouts get harder, as I was alluding to. For example, 6x1K with only 2 warmup is much easier than 6x1K with 8 warmup. You should be using paces that correlate with your fitness around that level. Put another way: It’s okay if you’re a fast twitch guy and do your I pace at faster than the equivalent M pace at that VDOT. However, given it’s marathon training, it’s okay for your I pace to be at the equivalent marathon VDOT. I’d be happy to keep talking Daniels as I used it last fall and a) loved it and b) using it again this fall.
Thanks - I was thinking that Marky_Mark17 was using the Daniel's plan. Thanks for responding. I had no issues doing 9x1K at 6:00 flat pace with a 1 minute walking recovery on a 65 Degree day after a 2 mile warm up. But the workout yesterday was 20 min easy + 40 minutes Threshold + 20 min easy and I really tanked it. It was 82 degrees yesterday with a 54 dew point and sunny, so that might have factored in.
Looking forward to this weekend's 6 sets of 4 minutes hard with 3 minute jogs.
Thanks - I was thinking that Marky_Mark17 was using the Daniel's plan. Thanks for responding. I had no issues doing 9x1K at 6:00 flat pace with a 1 minute walking recovery on a 65 Degree day after a 2 mile warm up. But the workout yesterday was 20 min easy + 40 minutes Threshold + 20 min easy and I really tanked it. It was 82 degrees yesterday with a 54 dew point and sunny, so that might have factored in. Looking forward to this weekend's 6 sets of 4 minutes hard with 3 minute jogs.
I use this chart in the summer. Note that if you’re doing cruise intervals, you should take half of the adjustment, but anything like 8+ at marathon pace should take the full adjustment. Personally, I find dew point hurts me much more than temperature. Put another way, I find 75 plus 55 to be pretty good running conditions (not perfect but not bad), but 65 temp and 65 dew point will seriously hamper a workout.
100 or less: no pace adjustment
101 to 110: 0% to 0.5% pace adjustment
111 to 120: 0.5% to 1.0% pace adjustment
121 to 130: 1.0% to 2.0% pace adjustment
131 to 140: 2.0% to 3.0% pace adjustment
141 to 150: 3.0% to 4.5% pace adjustment
151 to 160: 4.5% to 6.0% pace adjustment
161 to 170: 6.0% to 8.0% pace adjustment
171 to 180: 8.0% to 10.0% pace adjustment
Above 180: hard running not recommended
Hi all. Apologies for my extended absence. I've been meaning to stop by the board.
Around the last time I posted, I was dealing with a perfect storm that made me stop running for a while (a while being about 3 weeks). Fatigue, stress from long hours at work, final exam for my night course... I quit mid long run one day and called off the May half-marathon.
I decided to slowly start running again because it is a fantastic stress reliever (my stress relief of choice) and, as the weather got nicer, hours normalized at work and I finished my course, I started getting consistent again. I was at about 20-30mpw for 4 weeks when coming back. I've since been more consistently around 40mpw. I decided to set a goal race of a 10k in September that would be more feasible on 40mpw. I'm using Daniels' 40-50mpw 5/10k 24 week plan. I'm currently in phase II and also decided to implement a "down week" every fourth week (dropping one speed workout and aiming for 75% of normal weekly mileage).
I do have my eye on a fall HM (the same one I set my PR at last year). I just interviewed for a teaching position that would require I move quite far a way before then though, so it's all up in the air.
Anyhow, I always enjoyed the banter here and haven't gotten a great ton of advice. My non-committed goal is that sub90 in October so I'll be around to pick your brains, as always
On that note, training has been going great. I did a fitness test before Phase II of the plan started, running a 5k in 20:12. I am about 15 pounds over ideal running weight so I was very happy with that result (my 2nd fastest on a legitimately measured 5k course, 3rd fastest overall) Through phase II, where the speed work is introduced, I've been successful in all of my workouts, save the last one. My most recent involved a 3 mile tempo run bookmarked by 4x200m repetitions at 3k pace. My tempo pace, as per most recent 5k, is about 4:19/km or a 6:57 mile. I've mostly been doing tempo intervals in mile repeats so I decided "20 minutes" would be more achievable and be close enough to 3mi. My tempo pace ended up at 4:26/km or 7:08/mi. It was pretty even, though, so I was happy that I just finished.
I think my biggest goal, apart from consistent running, is getting the weight under control. I was at 180 pounds at the 5k race (usually racing 165-170). I put a goal of a pound a week to get down. With the consistent mileage and a little discipline with junk food eating, I've been on target so far. 3rd week weigh in on Sunday.
Personal Bests: 5k 19:43 (04/2017), 10k 43.24 (10/2016), Half 1:33:18 (10/2017), Full 3:32:47 (05/2017)2018 Targets: 5k: sub19, 10k: sub41, Half: sub90
JamesD
Blair - Welcome back. Glad to hear you're making progress on both training & gradual weight loss. Good luck on the teaching position.
My hamstring seems to be slowly getting better, but I'm not ready to test it with a run yet. Oddly, I tweaked my other (left) hamstring hitting fly balls to my son, but it feels like surface tightness (if that makes sense) that'll be ok in a couple of days, not something deep inside the leg. I swam 3x this week, a little longer than before, and did pool running afterwards twice. Today was the first time post-injury that I got in a decent amount of time - ~30 minutes swimming and 20 minutes easy pool running immediately after. That seems like the aerobic equivalent of a decent easy day. The doctor I saw on Wednesday said there was nothing structurally wrong with my left knee, which was reassuring. I've been doing a few strengthening exercises as well. Until about March of this year, I was interrupting my easy runs with exercises every half-mile or 3/4-mile. When I cut out those breaks, I didn't make them up any other time, and when I started again after the hamstring injury, my balance in particular was noticeably worse. It's a little better now after a week or so.
Our family is going to Florida this week for four nights at two beaches (Clearwater & Flagler Beach). Hope to get some exercise in the water and be able to start running once we're back.
Post-1987 PRs: Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)
'24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32
Blair - welcome back! Saw you were logging runs on Strava again. Can definitely see how it would've been tough juggling so much, I just get by between work, family and running but throwing a course or study in there as well would mean something had to give! I find it a great stress reliever too though, whenever I am busy at work, the last thing I sacrifice is running because it just helps keep my head clear.
James - hope you have a nice break in Florida and that you're ready to run again after a bit of a rest.
Me - another very CONSISTENT week at 77.2km (that's now 8 straight between 75-85km). Was a bit flat for Wed's long tempo run, but felt great Sat morning and that carried on into today's long run where I found I still had plenty of gas to tear up the nasty East Coast Rd hills after 17km.
M: 11.6km easy
T: weights
W: 18.5km incl. 40min tempo
Th: 12.9km incl. hill reps
F: weights
S: 12.1km moderate
S: 22.2km long run
Total: 77.2km