Flu shot heresy (Read 2152 times)

    Here's a response from one of the clin-pharm folks at work.

     

    I asked, "So, will your kids get the h1n1 vaccine? Just curious... Is your main rationale for not getting it yourself that it's unlikely to do much more than just lessen the severity when you get the flu?"

     

    His response, "Most likely not get it for my kids.  Well, since I think that vaccines do not prevent you from getting the flu, the main question is this, as you know: is it worth getting mildly to moderately sick, if any, after getting the vaccine?  Perhaps to a full blown flu?

    Is the 'quality of living' enhance after getting the vaccine?  I don’t know.

    Would the h1n1 flu harm me?  Perhaps.

    Would it harm my kids?  There is an increase of chance, although I don't know what that is, if you believe the data up to this point, i.e., there are a lot more younger people with h1n1 flu than older people.

    Since the mortality rate after getting the flu is not too bad compare to other epidemics, I'll probably hold off on the kids...

    But, then again, I may change my mind..."

    Kirk


    Giant Flaming Dork

       

      So what's my rejoinder to those folks who are discomfited by the insert and believe the FDA is saying it's NOT for kids and has unknown effects among pregnant women. I realize it's produced by the same methods as any other vaccine, but those same folks react to that argument as a reason for deferring any flu vaccine for their kids.

      The rejoinder is simple, all of this information is easily obtained from reputable sources:

       

      From the CDC

      Are there flu vaccines that pregnant women should not get?

      The seasonal and 2009 H1N1 flu vaccines can by given by shot or by nasal spray. Pregnant women should get the "flu shot"—a vaccine made with killed flu virus. This one is given with a needle, usually in the arm. The other type of flu vaccine—a nasal spray—is not approved for pregnant women. This vaccine is made with live, weakened flu virus. Nasal spray flu vaccine should be used only in healthy people 2-49 years of age who are not pregnant.  The nasal spray vaccine is safe for women after they have delivered, even if they are nursing.

       

      [My emphasis added]

      Linky1

       

      Who will be recommended to receive the 2009 H1N1 vaccine?

      CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) has recommended that certain groups of the population receive the 2009 H1N1 vaccine when it first becomes available. These target groups include pregnant women, people who live with or care for children younger than 6 months of age, healthcare and emergency medical services personnel, persons between the ages of 6 months and 24 years old, and people ages of 25 through 64 years of age who are at higher risk for 2009 H1N1 because of chronic health disorders or compromised immune systems.

      We do not expect that there will be a shortage of 2009 H1N1 vaccine, but availability and demand can be unpredictable. There is some possibility that initially the vaccine will be available in limited quantities. In this setting, the committee recommended that the following groups receive the vaccine before others: pregnant women, people who live with or care for children younger than 6 months of age, health care and emergency medical services personnel with direct patient contact, children 6 months through 4 years of age, and children 5 through 18 years of age who have chronic medical conditions.

      Linky2

       

       

      For those that say the FDA don't recommend pregnant women and children get the vaccine - that is the nasal one ONLY.

       

      From flu.gov (linked from the FDA website)

       

      Groups recommended to receive 2009 H1N1 vaccine fi rst are:

      • Pregnant women

      • People who live with or care for infants younger than 6 months of age

      • Health care and emergency medical personnel

      • Anyone from 6 months through 24 years of age

      • Anyone from 25 through 64 years of age with certain chronic medical conditions or a weakened immune system

       

      As more vaccine becomes available, these groups should also be vaccinated:

      • Healthy 25 through 64 year olds

      • Adults 65 years and older

      Linky3

      MTA:  appearance changes and clarity

      http://xkcd.com/621/

         I'm not being snide here, but is this a native english speaker? I'm having a lot of trouble parsing his (not your) first paragraph.

         

        Here's a response from one of the clin-pharm folks at work.

         

        I asked, "So, will your kids get the h1n1 vaccine? Just curious... Is your main rationale for not getting it yourself that it's unlikely to do much more than just lessen the severity when you get the flu?"

         

        His response, "Most likely not get it for my kids.  Well, since I think that vaccines do not prevent you from getting the flu, the main question is this, as you know: is it worth getting mildly to moderately sick, if any, after getting the vaccine?  Perhaps to a full blown flu?

        Is the 'quality of living' enhance after getting the vaccine?  I don’t know.

        Would the h1n1 flu harm me?  Perhaps.

        Would it harm my kids?  There is an increase of chance, although I don't know what that is, if you believe the data up to this point, i.e., there are a lot more younger people with h1n1 flu than older people.

        Since the mortality rate after getting the flu is not too bad compare to other epidemics, I'll probably hold off on the kids...

        But, then again, I may change my mind..."

        Kirk

          People don't usually speak in paragraphs, unless they're reading out loud.

          Runners run.


          A Dance with Monkeys


            His response...

             

            His thinking does not sound well informed or well thought through.


            A Dance with Monkeys

              People don't usually speak in paragraphs, unless they're reading out loud.

               

              Yes.  But this was an email exchange.


              I've got a fever...

                The "low risks of actually getting the disease" only stays low if enough people vaccinate. 

                 

                 BOOM! The saucy wench lands a pink knockout punch! 

                +42

                On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.


                I've got a fever...

                   

                  For those that say the FDA don't recommend pregnant women and children get the vaccine - that is the nasal one ONLY.

                   

                  From flu.gov (linked from the FDA website)

                   

                  Groups recommended to receive 2009 H1N1 vaccine fi rst are:

                  • Pregnant women

                  • People who live with or care for infants younger than 6 months of age

                  • Health care and emergency medical personnel

                  • Anyone from 6 months through 24 years of age

                  • Anyone from 25 through 64 years of age with certain chronic medical conditions or a weakened immune system

                   

                  As more vaccine becomes available, these groups should also be vaccinated:

                  • Healthy 25 through 64 year olds

                  • Adults 65 years and older

                  Linky3

                  MTA:  appearance changes and clarity

                   Deserves repeating.  Bill Maher, I fart in your general direction.

                  On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                    People don't usually speak in paragraphs, unless they're reading out loud.

                     I read it out loud to myself and I still am not sure what he's saying.

                      Korean guy, most here are foreign nationals.


                      Imminent Catastrophe

                        Excellent article here

                        "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

                         "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

                        "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

                         

                        √ Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 20/21 July 2013

                        Boston Marathon 21 April 2014

                        Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 19/20 July 2014

                          Korean guy, most here are foreign nationals.

                          okay, thanks. I certainly would not imply any criticism about not being a native english speaker. I'm aware of how it can sometimes be difficult for me (and perhaps others) to understand what someone else is really saying, especially if they are non-native english speakers. My question was actually intended to try to clarify his words. It sure sounded to me like he was saying that he thinks vaccines don't work and can perhaps even cause the flu. That astonished me, especially for someone in his line of business.

                          Ed4


                          Barefoot and happy

                            Not true at all.  Diseases that are typically considered fatal do NOT run placebo-controlled trials except under exceptional circumstances.  The control arm is an active treatment.  Your understanding of randomized trials is very incomplete, I help design them. 

                            ...

                            The cold-hearted intentions you ascribe to people like myself are both untrue and insulting.  You believe the gov't is lying to you but the media is telling you the truth?

                             

                             

                            I concede that my understanding of randomized trials is incomplete, and I thank you for your correction.

                             

                            But you need to go back and read my post again and try to find the "cold-hearted intentions" I'm allegedly ascribing to somebody.  And where did I accuse anybody of lying?

                             

                            I am certain that everyone involved in healthcare has the best of intentions.  That's not the issue.  The issue is how people decide what to believe -- are the standards of evidence rigorous enough?  My own opinion is that some things that are fashionable in healthcare have shockingly little hard evidence to support them (hormone replacement therapy?  cardiac bypass surgery?).  I do not know if flu vaccines fall into this category, but I pointed out an article that claims they do, because I know there are smart people on these forums that could add a lot of good discussion (as you have).

                            Curious about running barefoot? Visit the new barefoot running group.

                              okay, thanks. I certainly would not imply any criticism about not being a native english speaker. I'm aware of how it can sometimes be difficult for me (and perhaps others) to understand what someone else is really saying, especially if they are non-native english speakers. My question was actually intended to try to clarify his words. It sure sounded to me like he was saying that he thinks vaccines don't work and can perhaps even cause the flu. That astonished me, especially for someone in his line of business.

                               

                              I'm pretty sure that he's saying that the vaccine will only reduce the severity of the flu (and I think he would say it's due to the variety/mutation of strains, based on an earlier conversation).


                              Right on Hereford...

                                Excellent article here

                                 

                                Yes, this was linked earlier in this thread, but thank you for linking again. It is an excellent article. I would suggest that everyone here should read it, no matter what you currently believe. It's long, but well worth the read.