So where have I heard this before??? (Read 368 times)

JMac11


RIP Milkman

    you guys all like to pile on and attack then claim to be nothing like lets run when you definitely are.

     

    I agree with this 100% and it goes beyond this thread.

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

     

    minmalS


    Stotan Disciple

      Bill I agree if he lashes out those of us that knows now knows it’s not really a personal attack. Ignore the insult we don’t have to pile on. I read a book about autism and the author said she learned so much and saw so much beauty in “different minded” people.  From working with kids I really understood what she was expressing. 

      What would be good is if a grad or doctoral student could work with him and an  midpack athlete to see if his idea could actually become a reality.

       

      As for dynamic stretching I have a funny story that says stretching isn’t necessary. It was said Herb and Cerutty were discussing stretching and warm up and Cerutty said it wasn’t as important as herb imagine so Cerutty grabbed a cup and threw water on a sleeping cat the cat got up and bolted at lightning’s speed. Cerutty was like so did he need to stretch and warm up before hitting his top speed? I laugh so hard when I heard the story.

      Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

      Lane


        I agree with this 100% and it goes beyond this thread.

        Fair enough, not everyone on this thread (including me)h displayed exemplary behavior, but this was the first line of the first post:

         

        "Of course I haven't posted here for awhile. But to be honest I truly thought you toilet vultures would have at least referenced this article in my memory..."

         

        I admit to not being the most socially adept so somebody help me.out, is toilet vultures what the kids are calling other people they were interested in having a thought provoking conversation with?  If so, I entirely apologize for my tongue-in-cheek response.

          As a person "on the spectrum" I'm painfully aware of "differently minded" interactions with other people and have to make conscious attempt to "act straight" with strangers. And use a lot of "quotation marks" in sentences. 

           

          That's funny about the Eliot and Cerutty thing.

           

          It would be very simple for the particular individual to run a study; they just need to put up flyers or run an ad asking for volunteer runners for a study that seeks to improve performance by more than 10%. They would get a couple dozen pretty easily, and then pare that down to a handful that can follow the whole regime for a month or more and not do any unprescribed training/running. It's that simple. I have a feeling it would not go well unless there was someone else as a go-between from the particular individual to the runners, though. Maybe the study could get published, who knows. It's kind of hard to meet all the parameters to have a study taken seriously, and most get refused because of procedural details. There are some "pay to play" science publications that would run it even if it was junk. But, PUBLISHED! (not peer reviewed)

          60-64 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

          Mikkey


          Mmmm Bop

            Surly Bill  I don't think he has narcissistic tendency. If you read the article there is a deeper complexity, narcissistic is superficial.

             

            He tries to think out the box and people that do that always are rejected by society even if I disagree with him, Im willing to hear him out and some of what he said makes sense. As Otter said some of the great coaches like Lydiard and Cerutty studied animal movements.

             

             

             

             

            Lydiard has written books and is well respected. Maybe you should be sport jester’s agent and get him a book deal.

            5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

               

              Lydiard has written books and is well respected. Maybe you should be sport jester’s agent and get him a book deal.

               

              Don't get me wrong in that I am not comparing or even hinting that anyone here is on the level Lydiard was but keep in mind that Lydiard was considered to be the village idiot by most in the sport until he had three medalists in the Olympics.  Then they had to pay attention.  The stretching thing... nothing wrong with dynamic stretching.  Another subject for another time though.

               

              Sort of the same way Zatopek was viewed as an athlete until he wiped the floor with everyone in the 1952 games at the 5000, 10,000, and Marathon.  Part of his training involved running with his wife on his back.  He would do 100 x 400 on the track for intervals.  Crazy stuff like that.  I'm not suggesting that is good training by the way.

               

              Cerutty had very odd moments as well.  He dressed his athletes up in feathers and made them run through the streets with spears.  It got too weird for some of his athletes like Landy who left the camp because of it.  That was a blow to his ego that Cerutty did not handle well but again that is another story for another time.

               

              Both were revolutionary in many ways but were also considered very odd to the general public.  Cerutty's diet for him and his athletes was really simple and rejected by most experts at the time.  If it did not look like it just came out of nature don't eat it.  So nothing processed.  They ate raw vegetables because he felt the cooking process would take the vitamins away.  If they did boil vegetable they drank the water after.  A lot of what he did nutritionists are now preaching like it is some kind of new discovery.  He was doing this nearly 70 years ago.

                Another wacky Zatopek workout that I can't forget: He would see how far around the track he could run holding his breath. Not sure about the training benefit of that one, but of course I had to try!

                60-64 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

                kcam


                  Another wacky Zatopek workout that I can't forget: He would see how far around the track he could run holding his breath. Not sure about the training benefit of that one, but of course I had to try!

                   

                  and ... ???!

                  minmalS


                  Stotan Disciple

                    As a person "on the spectrum" I'm painfully aware of "differently minded" interactions with other people and have to make conscious attempt to "act straight" with strangers. And use a lot of "quotation marks" in sentences. 

                     

                    That's funny about the Eliot and Cerutty thing.

                     

                    It would be very simple for the particular individual to run a study; they just need to put up flyers or run an ad asking for volunteer runners for a study that seeks to improve performance by more than 10%. They would get a couple dozen pretty easily, and then pare that down to a handful that can follow the whole regime for a month or more and not do any unprescribed training/running. It's that simple. I have a feeling it would not go well unless there was someone else as a go-between from the particular individual to the runners, though. Maybe the study could get published, who knows. It's kind of hard to meet all the parameters to have a study taken seriously, and most get refused because of procedural details. There are some "pay to play" science publications that would run it even if it was junk. But, PUBLISHED! (not peer reviewed)

                     

                    That's why it would be good to have a masters or doctoral student  (supervision) to document the the study and keep it scientific and hold sport Jester accountable to run the study within certain parameters. So it would need to be about 6-10 athletes  a supervisor (Grad/PHD) and maybe a controlled group  and a group who did traditional coaching to see which group improved. It could work and I would suggest he go that route. I'm sure if he did it under some school it may even get a funding grant.

                    Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

                    minmalS


                    Stotan Disciple

                       

                      Both were revolutionary in many ways but were also considered very odd to the general public.  Cerutty's diet for him and his athletes was really simple and rejected by most experts at the time.  If it did not look like it just came out of nature don't eat it.  So nothing processed.  They ate raw vegetables because he felt the cooking process would take the vitamins away.  If they did boil vegetable they drank the water after.  A lot of what he did nutritionists are now preaching like it is some kind of new discovery.  He was doing this nearly 70 years ago.

                       

                      LESSONS FROM THE PALEO GURU HISTORY FORGOT

                       

                      Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

                      minmalS


                      Stotan Disciple

                         

                        Both were revolutionary in many ways but were also considered very odd to the general public.  Cerutty's diet for him and his athletes was really simple and rejected by most experts at the time.  If it did not look like it just came out of nature don't eat it.  So nothing processed.  They ate raw vegetables because he felt the cooking process would take the vitamins away.  If they did boil vegetable they drank the water after.  A lot of what he did nutritionists are now preaching like it is some kind of new discovery.  He was doing this nearly 70 years ago.

                         

                        LESSONS FROM THE PALEO GURU HISTORY FORGOT

                         

                         

                        Steve Magness did some really great papers on Cerutty. He was considered so odd... Cerutty was often banned from meets in Australia he was blacklisted in Olympic villages and most people attack him because he was an attention seeker. He would give unsolicited advice, like I often do.  He never considered himself a coach. But people would say he claimed credit for things he didn't do.  Cerutty was affable and infectious and loved helping, he was a polymath versed in so many subjects so if he see a jumper or sprinter he would say try this or do this differently. If the person went on to win he would say he advised not coached.  A lot of people saw that as taking credit. The guy was black listed at home and heralded as a hero abroad. I would have loved the opportunity to sit at his feet and absorb all the knowledge both useful and useless all the same.  Process keep and throw out or file away.

                         

                        Sport Jester maybe you just need you own Herb Elliott, to prove your theory. Try to partner with a school and do as suggested. Similar to what you are doing with the special forces at what ever the level.

                        Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

                           

                          That's why it would be good to have a masters or doctoral student  (supervision) to document the the study and keep it scientific and hold sport Jester accountable to run the study within certain parameters. So it would need to be about 6-10 athletes  a supervisor (Grad/PHD) and maybe a controlled group  and a group who did traditional coaching to see which group improved. It could work and I would suggest he go that route. I'm sure if he did it under some school it may even get a funding grant.

                           

                          I agree but the study should be something worth funding.  For example, trying to disprove Newton's third law of motion would be a waste of time and resources.

                             

                            and ... ???!

                             

                            it was hard.

                            60-64 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

                               

                              I agree but the study should be something worth funding.  For example, trying to disprove Newton's third law of motion would be a waste of time and resources.

                               

                              I've seen a lot of worthless studies get funding. Repeatedly. Same study, over and over again for years, same results. New funding every time.There's a talent to writing grant proposals. Best to hire a professional for that!

                               

                              A friend working on the Atlas Project at Lawrence Berkeley Lab shares a lot of inside dirt about other studies and projects there, especially the "lifers" doing the same thing for decades.

                              60-64 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

                              sport jester


                              Biomimeticist

                                This is the point I was exactly waiting for...

                                 

                                Of course I can have an open discussion. Lets start here. I sent this article reference and use it. Stew Smith isn't a fitness blogger, he's a former Navy SEAL. I started this with volunteering with SEAL candidates because no track coach would touch me. My military reputation started here.

                                 

                                https://www.military.com/military-fitness/running/evolution-of-learning-how-to-run-distance

                                 

                                My point in all of this is because I have the e-mail history with Salazar. That in 1993, Ma Junren brought five women and set five world records at the world track championship. Of course everyone thought he was cheating. In journalism, you're taught less than 50% of any article's readers got more than half way through any article. If many would have, Ma openly states that he studied ostriches and deer.

                                https://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/12/sports/track-field-chinese-runners-excel-on-work-and-worms.html

                                 

                                He didn't need to use any drugs because he was a former zoo director

                                https://www.personalhealthfacts.com/cordyceps11.html

                                 

                                I studied T-Rex and learned to train racehorses. I only have one goal: To teach any athlete whereas a 20% improvement in speed would best any current world record. Salazar left me running on the treadmill.

                                 

                                The masking tape exercise introduces the basic biology of what I teach. I only ask you to try it for yourself.

                                 

                                Simply start with what I taught Stew and go from there. I don't want arguments; I want questions...

                                Experts said the world is flat

                                Experts said that man would never fly

                                Experts said we'd never go to the moon

                                 

                                Name me one of those "experts"...

                                 

                                History never remembers the name of experts; just the innovators who had the guts to challenge and prove the "experts" wrong