RunningAHEAD - Topic: PR's run on non-certified courses--should they count?

JimHowe

posted: 4/17/2008 at 10:15 AM
modified: 4/17/2008 at 10:16 AM

PR’s run on non-certified courses—should they count? (track counts as certified) At the risk of biasing my question and for the purpose of starting an argument I will start things off by saying NO. I might also add that GPS devices are not nearly accurate enough to insure that a course is accurate. They usually say that you’ve run further than you actually have. How about point-to-point downhill courses? Should they count? This one is tougher, but. I’d say that these need an asterisk and a note explaining elevation loss in feet. Let the arguments begin.

Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33

NateFromRI

posted: 4/17/2008 at 10:35 AM

I'll say maybe. I tend to have big differences between PRs so even if the distance is a little bit off, my record would probably stand. If I PR'd by just a few seconds I might think differently.

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5K - 18:25 - 3/19/11
10K - 39:38 - 12/13/09
1/2 - 1:29:38 - 5/30/10
Full - 3:45:40 - 5/27/07

mb197314

posted: 4/17/2008 at 10:36 AM

A PR is a PR is a PR....The average Joe is not worried about if the course is certified or not...A PR in a race put on by a local church on a non-certified course is just as good as a PR in a 5K with a certified course...Same goes for 10K's, HM's and fulls... My PR in Po-Dunk Memorial 10K is just as good as your PR @ Peachtree...

mikeymike

posted: 4/17/2008 at 10:40 AM
modified: 4/17/2008 at 10:42 AM

Define : count. Why would there be an argument about this? PR's are just that, personal. I could give a rats ass how someone else decides what's a PR and what's not. For me... I count a PR if the course is accurate. I don't count them if the course is not accurate. This is regardless of whether it's certified. My 5k PR is on a non-certified course that I know to be accurate. I also ran what would be a PR of 27:12 for 8K that despite being certified is almost definitely short, so I don't count it. I also don't count PR's on courses that are "weird". To me that means severely downhill or uphill or if it's some funky distance that I'll never race again.

Runners run

JimHowe

posted: 4/17/2008 at 10:41 AM

Quote from mb197314 on 4/17/2008 at 10:36 AM:

A PR is a PR is a PR....The average Joe is not worried about if the course is certified or not...A PR in a race put on by a local church on a non-certified course is just as good as a PR in a 5K with a certified course...Same goes for 10K's, HM's and fulls... My PR in Po-Dunk Memorial 10K is just as good as your PR @ Peachtree...

Even if the Po-Dunk Memorial "10k" is really 5.5 miles? hmmmm.

Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33

mb197314

posted: 4/17/2008 at 10:47 AM

If the race says 10K I am going to assume it is 10K...I don't have a GPS to weart and don't measure a course before, or after for that matter, I run it...I have faith that the course is closer to accurate than not...

zoom-zoom

rectumdamnnearkilledem

posted: 4/17/2008 at 10:48 AM

Quote from mikeymike on 4/17/2008 at 10:40 AM:

Define : count. Why would there be an argument about this? PR's are just that, personal. I could give a rats ass how someone else decides what's a PR and what's not. For me... I count a PR if the course is accurate. I don't count them if the course is not accurate. This is regardless of whether it's certified. My 5k PR is on a non-certified course that I know to be accurate. I also ran what would be a PR of 27:12 for 8K that despite being certified is almost definitely short, so I don't count it.

Ditto. I ran a "6 mile" race on New Year's Day that was marked wrong by volunteers on race day and ended up being only 5.45 according to mine and other people's Garmins. The race director sent postcards to all finishers apologizing and giving actual distance and pace/mile. I don't count this as a PR, since it wasn't any sort of standard distance.

Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to

remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.

~ Sarah Kay

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 4/17/2008 at 10:49 AM

Well, there are all sorts of rules and criteria governing "record eligible" courses for world class competition, world records, national records, etc. As there should be. As far as PR's go -- the P stand for personal. It's up to the individual how tight or loose they want to be with it, and my feeling is that if you don't like the way someone else categorizes their PR's, then go out and beat 'em (running, that is). Myself, I can live with a course being uncertified as long as there is a sense that it is reasonably accurate (which for me would be ±1% or so). And you pretty much know when something's amiss. Throw out the stuff you know is BS (like the "5k" course I ran in XC that produced the following mile splits: 4:40 6:20 4:53 Umm, not really, no. I went through the first mile at 4:40 with two of my teammates. None of us had ever run below 4:55 for 1-mile at that point in our career, so you know we sure didn't do it in a 5k. And my total time was about 1:30 faster than I had ever run up to that point. Oddly enough, almost everyone on the team set 1:00+ PR's that day. I would probably asterisk something set on a course that was all downhill. Judgment call as to how much constitutes too much. But like I said, they're personal. Should they count? Count for what? -- the only person keeping score is yourself, so it comes down to what you can live with.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 4/17/2008 at 10:51 AM

Quote from mb197314 on 4/17/2008 at 10:47 AM:

If the race says 10K I am going to assume it is 10K...I don't have a GPS to weart and don't measure a course before, or after for that matter, I run it...I have faith that the course is closer to accurate than not...

I trust my instincts on a course, rather than purely put faith in the organizers. If something smells like a rat, it probably is -- see my splits above on a "5k."

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

JakeKnight

posted: 4/17/2008 at 10:54 AM

Quote from mikeymike on 4/17/2008 at 10:40 AM:

Define : count. Why would there be an argument about this? PR's are just that, personal. I could give a rats ass how someone else decides what's a PR and what's not.

What he said. The P is for personal. Not sure what to argue about it. If I think the distance is accurate, I count it. Obviously if its a massive net downhill, it isn't counted. All I care about is whether I ran the distance. Certification or not. Ironically, my 5-k PR was on a supposedly certified course, a long-time course, at a pretty big race ... and I'm about 80% sure the course was inaccurate. No Garmin at the time, so I don't know - but it was too easy and too fast. A PR by over a minute, a week after a tough marathon. So do I count it or not? In the end, I did count it - but I'm skeptical, and I'm looking forward to a new PR on another course.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
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Dustin

posted: 4/17/2008 at 10:56 AM

I'm still not sure about this. My last 5K measured 3.02 on my GPS, and 3.05 on another guys, and it wasn't a certified course. I made a note of the observed distance in my log entry and still count it as a PR. Even when I figured out what my time would have been if I had run the extra distance, it would still have been a PR, otherwise I might not have counted it. I guess I just don't care that much, I'm not an elite athlete or setting any world records.

PacerChris

posted: 4/17/2008 at 11:01 AM

If it's faster than one of my PR's, then NO it doesn't count. Big grin

JimHowe

posted: 4/17/2008 at 11:08 AM

Quote from mikeymike on 4/17/2008 at 10:40 AM:

Define : count. I count a PR if the course is accurate. I don't count them if the course is not accurate. This is regardless of whether it's certified. My 5k PR is on a non-certified course that I know to be accurate. I also ran what would be a PR of 27:12 for 8K that despite being certified is almost definitely short, so I don't count it. I also don't count PR's on courses that are "weird". To me that means severely downhill or uphill or if it's some funky distance that I'll never race again.

Fair enough, but how do you know that your 5k PR is accurate and your 8k is short? I assume that you have a logical answer and I think I know where you are coming from. When I said "NO" to counting non-certfied PR's, and "let the arguments begin", I suspected that it would stir up some discussion, which was the whole idea.. There have actually been many races I've run on non-certified courses that I believed to be accurate. For example, my club measures it's courses with a Jones Counter but none of them are officially certified. Also there have been several occasions when, for example, I've run a non-certified 10k within a month of another run on a certified course and times were nearly identical. Anyway, I was curious to see what kind of responses I'd get. Why it should it even matter is a question for my shrink.

Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33

MichiganFlyer

posted: 4/17/2008 at 11:34 AM

In HS cross-country I ran my 1st 5k race in 23:28, my 2nd race was 24:00. I was quite delighted to see my 3rd race time of 21:11. Then I saw everyone on my teams times were quite low. The course must have been about 1/4 mile short of a 5k. As much as I loved my time there was no way I was ever going to beat that time the rest of the year (my 2nd fastest race that year was 22:18). If I do run a 5k in 19:59 on a non certified course I am counting the bugger as a PR Smile

I dont think there are many certified courses around here but I assume most are measured pretty accurately. If everyones time is a minute lower than normal I wouldnt count it but if the course was fast and flat I would want to accept the final time. Honestly I would probably go to my mapping websites and see what distance they give for the running route. Or else I might try to drive it and see what distance I get.

piper0110

posted: 4/17/2008 at 11:40 AM

For me, a PR is just that - it's a personal record. I'm no speed demon. I'm never going to win a race. And that's ok. So for me, I prefer my PRs to be certified courses. That way, I know that I've run the exact same distance and my speed has improved. Sure, the type of course will make the run vary, but that's the way things go. I ran a small 5K a little over a year ago, and I was so proud of how fast I had run it. Until I ran my next 5K and was nearly 3 minutes slower. I went back and looked at my training, looked at previous 5K times, and realized that there was no way that I had really run a full 5K in the small race. I remember the race being not all that great, and I remember not feeling like I was running that fast or that hard. I didn't have a GPS at the time, but my final decision was that there was no way it was a full 5K. Why does that matter to me? Well, for me, the point of a PR is to have something to beat. So I'm kind of cheating myself if I use courses that aren't accurate.

PR's run on non-certified courses--should they count? (Read 790 times)