Goal of Sub-3 Hour Marathon (Read 15839 times)

    Blimey Spinach, good effort considering how soon after the sub 3!
    spinach


       

       

      Congrats on Paavo - I could not make the trip - You have secured your free entry again for next year (top 10 men and top 5 women)

       

      Too bad you weren't there.  I looked right before the start and saw your chip hadn't been picked up so I knew you weren't able to come back this year.

       

      Paavo is my favorite marathon, there were a few changes this year with the new race director but it was still lots of fun with the pasta meal and the torch lighting the night before and the post race party.  I  have run it the last five years now and my finishing position has improved each year:  17th to 14th to 13th to 7th to 4th this year.  I definitely hope to run this the next five years so I don't think I will be able to keep this streak going. 

       

      I recommend it to any of you looking for a tough, sometimes hot and humid but always hilly, summer marathon.  There was a nice review of it in Marathons & Beyond a couple months ago.  It is worth the trip to northern Wisconsin.

      DoppleBock


        Nice Paavo streak ... The 4 time men's winner hangs out in RA in the swamp.

         

        I decided to take a bit of time off (8 weeks) and have restarted my training August 3rd.   No way I could run Paavo this year.

         

        I want to peak for May 13-14th 2010 so that gives me 3 months to base build and 6 months to train.  I probably could have quit at 4 weeks off, as I gained way to much weight.  But I do believe every couple of years a decent break from running is healthy.

        7/20/17 #247 Comeback #19 ... 10/8 - Glacial Trail 50M

         

         

          Nice running in the Paavo.

           

          DB - that is loads of time for a man of your ability.

           

          I have a question for you sub-3 studs:

           

          What would you consider a decent marathon pace training run to indicate that you are in sub-3 shape?

           

          10m @ 6:50 pace?  10m @ 6:30 pace?  15m @ x?  20m @ y? 

           

          It seems to me that running a 20 @ MP is a really tough workout and should probably only be attempted by the faster chaps?  Whaddya think?

           

            10m @ 6:50 pace?  10m @ 6:30 pace?  15m @ x?  20m @ y? 

             

            It seems to me that running a 20 @ MP is a really tough workout and should probably only be attempted by the faster chaps?  Whaddya think?

             

             

            This will vary per individual but to me...

             

            20 @ MP is kind of crazy.  I've done it in a 20 mile race and probably wouldn't do it again.  Huge workout, not sure I ever recovered from that one during the training cycle.

             

            10 @ 6:50 pace on it's own won't tell you much but if it's done in the 2nd half of a 20 miler that is at the end of a high mileage week (i.e. no taper) it would be a very good indicator.  This is probably the best workout (non race) you could use for a marathon indicator.

             

            10 @ 6:30 is pretty meaningless...it would be a VERY hard workout, I probably couldn't even do it on my own in a random workout even when in 2:50 shape, but yet if I were to run a 10 mile race I'd expect it to be around 6:20 pace to have a shot at sub 3.  So 6:30 is sort of an in between pace that won't tell you much.

             

            The best indicator for me is always overall mileage combined with my best recent half marathon time.

            Runners run.

              Nice running in the Paavo.

               

              DB - that is loads of time for a man of your ability.

               

              I have a question for you sub-3 studs:

               

              What would you consider a decent marathon pace training run to indicate that you are in sub-3 shape?

               

              10m @ 6:50 pace?  10m @ 6:30 pace?  15m @ x?  20m @ y? 

               

              It seems to me that running a 20 @ MP is a really tough workout and should probably only be attempted by the faster chaps?  Whaddya think?

               

               

              20 @ MP is brutal!  I'd never do that.   A 1/2 marathon race at 1:25 is a very good indicator.

              DoppleBock


                 

                20 @ MP is brutal!  I'd never do that.   A 1/2 marathon race at 1:25 is a very good indicator.

                 

                I would rather run a 1/2 where the 1st 10 miles were 6:45-6:50 pace and I felt stong and was able to finish the last 3.1 miles in 18:30-18:45.  But thats just me ... I do not like an all out half marathon too close to the marathon, but too far away and its predictive value goes way down.

                7/20/17 #247 Comeback #19 ... 10/8 - Glacial Trail 50M

                 

                 

                   

                  This will vary per individual but to me...

                   

                  20 @ MP is kind of crazy.  I've done it in a 20 mile race and probably wouldn't do it again.  Huge workout, not sure I ever recovered from that one during the training cycle.

                   

                  10 @ 6:50 pace on it's own won't tell you much but if it's done in the 2nd half of a 20 miler that is at the end of a high mileage week (i.e. no taper) it would be a very good indicator.  This is probably the best workout (non race) you could use for a marathon indicator.

                   

                  10 @ 6:30 is pretty meaningless...it would be a VERY hard workout, I probably couldn't even do it on my own in a random workout even when in 2:50 shape, but yet if I were to run a 10 mile race I'd expect it to be around 6:20 pace to have a shot at sub 3.  So 6:30 is sort of an in between pace that won't tell you much.

                   

                  The best indicator for me is always overall mileage combined with my best recent half marathon time.

                   

                  Thanks Mikey, Ken and DB;

                   

                  Yes I kind of thought that 20 @ MP was a bit over the top.

                   

                  Good thoughts on 10 @ MP at the end of a 20 - cheers Mikey.

                   

                  So I guess that the above workout (20 with last 10 @ MP), combined with overall mileage and perhaps a 1/2M about 5 - 6 weeks out in about 1:25 would indicate that you are in sub 3 shape.  Thanks.

                    I agree with all of the above. A nice 18-20 mile run with the last 10-12 @ MP (6:45-6:50) is a good indicator. As is a HM in about 1:25-1:26. I was able to do both before I ran 2:58 in Boston. Plus no real taper for either workout will be a good workout too. Give you confidence that once you actually do taper you'll have no problem running the full 26.2 @ sub-3.
                    buck919


                       

                      Thanks Mikey, Ken and DB;

                       

                      Yes I kind of thought that 20 @ MP was a bit over the top.

                       

                      Good thoughts on 10 @ MP at the end of a 20 - cheers Mikey.

                       

                      So I guess that the above workout (20 with last 10 @ MP), combined with overall mileage and perhaps a 1/2M about 5 - 6 weeks out in about 1:25 would indicate that you are in sub 3 shape.  Thanks.

                       

                      Another good one is the "metric marathon" that the Brooks-Hansons guys reccomend. This is an untapered 26.2 KM (16.28 miles) workout that's preferably run at the end of a high-mileage week. The thinking is that if you can run this marathon simulation without a great deal of strain, you should be able to handle the same pace in the marathon once fully tapered. I believe it's reccomended that this be doen 3 - 4 weeks out. I can't find a link to it, but I know RW has an article on-line about if you need more info.

                       

                      My experience with this workout is that it's tough, but managable. If you try it, be sure to take a good 2 - 3 days recovery after it. Though I didn't run sub-3 (damn heat!), it gave me a ton of confidence going into the race.

                       

                      I think that the following are really good indicators that you're in shape to give sub-3 a shot:

                      1. The workout above @ 6:50 pace

                      2. A 1:24 - 1:26 half

                      3. A 38 - 39 10K

                      4. A 20 - 22 miler with the last 10 - 12 @ 6:50

                      5. A decent amount of mileage (70 MPW? 80 MPW?)

                       

                      DoppleBock


                        I took a bit of time off and I am back to being slow and fat (+40#)

                         

                        I am shooting for a sub 3:00 on 11/22 at HH Flying Monkey Marathon ... I am hoping to get MikeyMike, Thunder and A1 to get a little sub 3:00 pace group going.  So far its A1 and myself.  For those of you not familiar with Monkey (I am not)  I am told I better be in 2:50 shape to hit sub 3:00.

                         

                        I started training 8/3 and I am base building until September 13th - many painfully slow miles

                         

                        7/20/17 #247 Comeback #19 ... 10/8 - Glacial Trail 50M

                         

                         

                          Getting excited for fall race season - I'm missing reading the sub-3 marathon reports!!

                           

                          Pressure's on you to write a kickass RR Roth Runner... especially with a goal race in Germany!  


                          Right on Hereford...

                            Ok, I'll post another training update, at least. Not as exciting as a race report, but it will have to do.

                             

                            I was in Texas at the beginning of this month for my 20th high school reunion. Running in Texas SUCKS. Heat and humidity. Yuck. I couldn't finish a couple of my longer runs while I was there, due to feeling crappy. 20 miler cut to 10, and a 15-miler cut to 10. Also, my attempt at a tempo run was pitiful.

                             

                            That one week seemed to throw off my training. I came back to Colorado and ran a half marathon up in the mountains (8500 feet) the first weekend back. Even though it was a downhill race with a 1000-ft vertical drop, and I am usually a decent downhill runner, I didn't run as fast as I'd hoped. I wanted to run something like 1:22 or 1:23, but I ran 1:24:20.

                             

                            Later that week I had one of my worst interval workouts ever. 6x800 at 5k pace, and by the end I was slower than HM pace. Yeah, my legs were still thrashed from the race, I guess.

                             

                            Took it easy the next week, with a long run of only 15 miles. Even that felt horrible.

                             

                            This brings us to last week. I had a good 15 miler on Wednesday (7:36 pace), and then a workout that I was really intimidated by: 12 miles with 7 at HM pace. I ran the tempo portion at the track. I was planning to just run 11k tempo (yeah, that's a lot of running on the track), but I was already starting to slow down by 8k. I then decided to break the tempo portion into 8k and 3k segments, with a couple of recovery laps in between. That didn't work, either. So I ran 8k, 2k, and 1k tempo sessions, but I was way slower than HM pace on the last couple of km's. Disappointing.

                             

                            On Sunday I had my longest run of the year. Actually, my longest run since my marathon in 2006. 22 miles. This one went pretty well. I ran the first 11 miles at 7:44 pace, and the last 11 miles at 7:27 pace. I felt like I was just cruising along. Hard to call a 22-miler "easy," but the pace felt close to it. So that was good.

                             

                            On Tuesday I did another interval session. Should have been dead easy: 5x600 at 5k pace. Well, it went ok, that's about it. I wasn't able to hold my 5k pace (based on my last 5k in May), but I was close.

                             

                            So, the training has not been all rainbows and butterflies lately, but I don't think I'm way off track. At least I hope not.

                             

                            I have a 10k tuneup race on Saturday, in which I'm not expecting much...

                             

                            Wow, that was a long-winded update. At least it will bump the thread again.

                             

                            Roth Runner, so cool that are racing Berlin! Say hi to Sammy and Geb for us, will ya?

                              Quote: I am shooting for a sub 3:00 on 11/22 at HH Flying Monkey Marathon ... I am hoping to get MikeyMike, Thunder and A1 to get a little sub 3:00 pace group going.  So far its A1 and myself.  For those of you not familiar with Monkey (I am not)  I am told I better be in 2:50 shape to hit sub 3:00.

                               

                              Anyone who runs a sub 3:00 at the monkey is a stud/studette. (don't believe a female has gone sub 3:00, yet)

                               

                              I'll throw my name out as a sub 3:00 attempt at Louisville. PR of 3:05 at the Flying Pig. Flying monkey time was way off from that time...........................

                               

                              MTA. I'd like to think a 3:20 or 3:30 is possible for me at the monkey.

                              Get off my porch

                                I am shooting for a sub 3:00 on 11/22 at HH Flying Monkey Marathon ... I am hoping to get MikeyMike, Thunder and A1 to get a little sub 3:00 pace group going.  So far its A1 and myself.  For those of you not familiar with Monkey (I am not)  I am told I better be in 2:50 shape to hit sub 3:00.

                                 

                                I started training 8/3 and I am base building until September 13th - many painfully slow miles

                                 

                                 

                                If I show up, I'll definitely join that sub-3 pace group with you, but that's looking like a big IF right now.  Last year I ran 2:49 at Baystate then 3:07 at Monkey 5 weeks later (but I had a vasectomy in between and probably didn't go all out at Monkey.)

                                Runners run.