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47 years old, lift weights, run, lower my 5 k time (Read 230 times)

Jogger bobby


    That makes sense intuitively. There are some Youtubers who claim to do both, maybe they're just genetic freaks. While I'm at I need to maintain sprinting speed for soccer. Smile

     

    I'm not primarily looking for vanity muscles, i think for health the weights seriously reduce my risk of injury skiing and playing soccer. Super strong posterior chain and levers around the joints maybe reduce shearing and thus Achilles or ACL tears, knock on wood. But you're right I'm not trying to gain real weight from here. I weigh 173 and definitely run better than I did at 180, when I maxed out, and before going into a minor cutting phase before my race.

     

    On the running side, is it ok to just do slow miles for the next 8 weeks? Would I really expect to see speed improvements in a 5k from that alone?

    Born: 1973

    Marathon PR: 3:44 (2000)

    5k PR: 22:11 (2020)

     

    Goals:

    5k - 21:42

    Mile - 6:30

    400m - 1:10


    Still kicking

      How tall are you? I'm 6', and 160 was my cut-off top weight, before my running went into the toilet. If you were to get down to 160, with speedwork, your goal of 7 minute miles for a 5K would be child's play. Another thing to think of, is that you are 47, and running out of time. It keeps getting harder. In fact once I hit 50, I realized I could no longer serve two masters. By 52, it was all endurance (swim bike run) and lifting was only for health/fitness/injury prevention, and opposing muscles to prevent overuse injuries. The best rule of thumb I've ever come across for mixing lifting with endurance sports... is never do a weight workout today, that you couldn't do again tomorrow. In other words, anything that causes soreness, or takes more than 24 hours to recover from. You can't recover from running workouts, and improve, if your muscles are ripped apart from lifting.  As for running slow, I doubt that will get you anywhere near your goals (unless you are playing soccer regularly). But I cringe when you talk about the heavy leg routines... as that always zapped my ability to do any quality speedwork. Yes, there are some genetic freaks out there that can run pretty fast. But I can also say that I've never been beat in a 5K, by anyone with noticeable muscle mass, and the longer the race, the lighter the competitors become.

      I'm also on Athlinks and Strava

      Luciplay


        This is an interesting discussion. I really enjoyed learning a thing or two.

        Jogger bobby


          I'm 5'11" so similar. When I did the marathon at age 27 i weighed 152 lb. 20 years older I'm 20# heavier and running faster or at least not slower, for distance. But I would agree, I notice over this weight I'm sluggish. Ugh and totally aware that I cannot out run age forever.

           

          • I'm thinking no speedwork just x 10-12 weeks. I'll be doing weights so I might gain 5-10#. The 10k is more of a scramble, not for time. Then half dome (17 miles and 4500 ft elevation, hike not run). After that it's early August and if I have ~8-10 weeks til an October 5k to add speedwork to a better aerobic base, and cut back on any heavy lifting, and cut calories, I could be where I need to be. I'm a hard gainer especially with running so I won't gain too much this summer unless i just crater my diet, then I'll lose most of that over the race training phase, hopefully a recomp so maintain most muscle but lose fat.

          Born: 1973

          Marathon PR: 3:44 (2000)

          5k PR: 22:11 (2020)

           

          Goals:

          5k - 21:42

          Mile - 6:30

          400m - 1:10


          Still kicking

            If you are on Face Book, look up LHRL (Lift Heavy Run Long) and join that group. There are a lot of folks there who do both, and a lot of wisdom for what's possible. I think you would fit right in there!

            I'm also on Athlinks and Strava

            Jogger bobby


              Thanks for link i am not on FB but my wife is, i can check it out.

               

              Question about slow running.

               

              I've been following the Maffetone idea which is essentially to maintain a constant HR during LSRs.

               

              Yesterday i did 5 miles and these were my Mile splits. Does this seem reasonable or too weird?

               

              845

              855

              906

              918

              934

               

              Doing this my HR is consistent between 128-132 including hills or whatever.

               

              What do you think?

              Born: 1973

              Marathon PR: 3:44 (2000)

              5k PR: 22:11 (2020)

               

              Goals:

              5k - 21:42

              Mile - 6:30

              400m - 1:10

                the splits make it seem like you started out too fast to be comfortable as an easy pace. but maybe the start was downhill. if heartrate is consistent then that tells you the effort was consistent.

                 

                 

                 

                 


                an amazing likeness

                  ...

                  Yesterday i did 5 miles and these were my Mile splits. Does this seem reasonable or too weird?

                   

                  845

                  855

                  906

                  918

                  934

                   

                  Doing this my HR is consistent between 128-132 including hills or whatever.

                   

                  What do you think?

                   

                  First, excellent work!

                   

                  Second, as an alternate thought to Doug B's feedback -- the drop off from your opening segment's pace of 8:50 avg for 2 miles (so that we even out the fresh-out-of-the-barn effect of the first mile) to your last 2 miles' ~9:30 is a not a small drop off.  It shows you're having to dial back the workload to keep your heart rate from climbing out of your target range.  I'd argue that it points out you're outrunning your fitness level and you could consider your opening miles are too fast.

                  Acceptable at a dance, invaluable in a shipwreck.

                  Half Crazy K 2.0


                    Thanks for link i am not on FB but my wife is, i can check it out.

                     

                    Question about slow running.

                     

                    I've been following the Maffetone idea which is essentially to maintain a constant HR during LSRs.

                     

                    Yesterday i did 5 miles and these were my Mile splits. Does this seem reasonable or too weird?

                     

                    845

                    855

                    906

                    918

                    934

                     

                    Doing this my HR is consistent between 128-132 including hills or whatever.

                     

                    What do you think?

                    What was the weather like?

                    Jogger bobby


                      Weather was mild and unremarkable.

                       

                      My previous easy runs were consistent around 920 pace. What I think this is telling me is my heart rate was previously trending upward during my easy runs. My HR tended to be about 135-140 by the end. Now whether this is a problem or not I don't know.

                       

                      I could definitely do my first mile or two slower. However my HR will be like 115, which seems way too low to derive any aerobic benefit at all. The Above run is after a 10-15 min walk/slow jog warmup to get to HR 115, so I'm trying to ease into the running properly warmed up.

                       

                      After these runs (my weekend long run is now 7 miles and midweek run is 5) I'm not really tired. My legs are tired but my HR completely recovers within minutes and I feel really fresh the rest of the day. I don't know if that means it's too easy, it's just definitely shower especially toward the end than I am used to.

                      Born: 1973

                      Marathon PR: 3:44 (2000)

                      5k PR: 22:11 (2020)

                       

                      Goals:

                      5k - 21:42

                      Mile - 6:30

                      400m - 1:10


                      an amazing likeness

                        From what you describe, you seem to making good progress. You're getting a lot feedback (me included) from one workout. One workout is not a pattern. Don't over complicate things in measuring pace and heart rate,  just keep on truckin'.

                         

                        Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard.

                        Acceptable at a dance, invaluable in a shipwreck.

                        mikeymike


                          Yesterday i did 5 miles and these were my Mile splits. Does this seem reasonable or too weird?

                           

                          845

                          855

                          906

                          918

                          934

                           

                          Doing this my HR is consistent between 128-132 including hills or whatever.

                           

                          What do you think?

                           

                          I never trained by HR and Meffetone never made much sense to me. I always found perceived effort to be better than HR, or anything else.

                           

                          But, imo, easy runs (and most runs for that matter) should naturally follow the opposite pattern, i.e, start slow, gradually speed up as you get warmed up and into the flow of the run. This doesn't have to be complicated or a science project. Just run, baby.

                          Runners run

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                            Are you trying to hit your target HR from the start and then hold it for the rest of the run?  If so, that could explain this pattern.

                             

                            I would suggest starting a bit slower for the first two miles, and letting your HR gradually rise.  Then, from there, focus on running at a specific HR.

                             

                            Additionally, if you are in a hot area, as you get more dehydrated your HR will rise some in response to the lower blood volume (cardiac drift).  But that is usually seen in longer runs.

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            Jogger bobby


                              Yes, exactly. Note i have already done about 10+ minutes of brisk walking then light jogging to raise my HR to the 110s before starting the timed portion of the run.

                               

                              When I tried this on a treadmill, i stayed much more similar in times, between 905-920 on a 1% incline for a 3.5 mile run. So some of the variation outside likely has to do with topography, wind, etc.

                               

                              .

                              Born: 1973

                              Marathon PR: 3:44 (2000)

                              5k PR: 22:11 (2020)

                               

                              Goals:

                              5k - 21:42

                              Mile - 6:30

                              400m - 1:10

                              LedLincoln


                              not bad for mile 25

                                I too can't fathom following Maffetone. My HR is all over the map, and I can't imagine doing whatever it takes to keep it steady. I figure my heart knows best. To be fair, I haven't studied the method.

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