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Race help (Read 854 times)

    I am running in my first Half Marathon on March 15th. The Tom King 1/2 here in Nashville. My goal is to be under 2 hours. Lately on my long runs I have only been able to hold around a 9:30 pace. I am worried I won't hit my goal. In the last few long runs I have gone out to fast and crashed and slowed way down towards the end of my long runs. So my question is at what pace is slow enough to still have energy to finish strong but not too slow that I would not be able to catch back up. If someone might be able to look at my logs and see if they think this goal is even attainable for me I would really appreciate it. I have been using Hal Higdon's Intermediate 1/2 training. The route I run on my long runs is quite a bit more hilly then what the race course will be so maybe I am worried for nothing. Thanks for your help
      I'm not an expert.... I just finished my first half this past weekend. I was able to get under 2 hours. Looking at your log I would say that you are faster than I am so I would think sub 2 hours shouldn't be an issue. My longest training run was 13.86 miles and I ran it at 10:24 pace... that was 3 weeks before my half. I ran my half at 9:07 pace for 1:59:25 I think your gold! Jason


      Lazy idiot

        I did a half last fall using the HH Intermediate plan as well. My goal was sub-2:00, and I finished in 1:54. A couple things: - You state that your goal is <2:00, yet you're running your race pace runs at about 8:30 pace, which is almost 40 seconds faster per mile than your goal pace (9:09). - i'm far from an expert, but i think you're doing one of the following: 1) running too fast in training for your stated goal time, or 2) you need to adjust your goal time lower. for your goal, you could probably be running your long (and easy) runs at a pace slower than 10:00/mile. use your speedwork/tempo/race pace runs to run "faster", and your easy runs to increase your endurance. - you said that you went out too fast and crashed. it's probably too late to experiment now, but i'd suggest starting out slower than you think you need to and gradually increasing your pace. when you start out too fast, you have a much greater chance of shooting your wad too early in your run. start out slower, and you'll have the energy to continue to push. i think you can do sub-2:00, just don't go out too fast. do your first mile (or three) a little slower than your goal pace, and then dial it up a little. if you're anything like me, you'll find that by mile 5 or 6 you've settled into a comfortable pace below your goal pace and will be fine. you can't "win" your race in the first mile. make sure you leave something for the later portion. and good luck!!! yet="" you're="" running="" your="" race="" pace="" runs="" at="" about="" 8:30="" pace,="" which="" is="" almost="" 40="" seconds="" faster="" per="" mile="" than="" your="" goal="" pace="" (9:09).="" -="" i'm="" far="" from="" an="" expert,="" but="" i="" think="" you're="" doing="" one="" of="" the="" following:="" 1)="" running="" too="" fast="" in="" training="" for="" your="" stated="" goal="" time,="" or="" 2)="" you="" need="" to="" adjust="" your="" goal="" time="" lower.="" for="" your="" goal,="" you="" could="" probably="" be="" running="" your="" long="" (and="" easy)="" runs="" at="" a="" pace="" slower="" than="" 10:00/mile.="" use="" your="" speedwork/tempo/race="" pace="" runs="" to="" run="" "faster",="" and="" your="" easy="" runs="" to="" increase="" your="" endurance.="" -="" you="" said="" that="" you="" went="" out="" too="" fast="" and="" crashed.="" it's="" probably="" too="" late="" to="" experiment="" now,="" but="" i'd="" suggest="" starting="" out="" slower="" than="" you="" think="" you="" need="" to="" and="" gradually="" increasing="" your="" pace.="" when="" you="" start="" out="" too="" fast,="" you="" have="" a="" much="" greater="" chance="" of="" shooting="" your="" wad="" too="" early="" in="" your="" run.="" start="" out="" slower,="" and="" you'll="" have="" the="" energy="" to="" continue="" to="" push.="" i="" think="" you="" can="" do="" sub-2:00,="" just="" don't="" go="" out="" too="" fast.="" do="" your="" first="" mile="" (or="" three)="" a="" little="" slower="" than="" your="" goal="" pace,="" and="" then="" dial="" it="" up="" a="" little.="" if="" you're="" anything="" like="" me,="" you'll="" find="" that="" by="" mile="" 5="" or="" 6="" you've="" settled="" into="" a="" comfortable="" pace="" below="" your="" goal="" pace="" and="" will="" be="" fine.="" you="" can't="" "win"="" your="" race="" in="" the="" first="" mile.="" make="" sure="" you="" leave="" something="" for="" the="" later="" portion.="" and="" good=""></2:00, yet you're running your race pace runs at about 8:30 pace, which is almost 40 seconds faster per mile than your goal pace (9:09). - i'm far from an expert, but i think you're doing one of the following: 1) running too fast in training for your stated goal time, or 2) you need to adjust your goal time lower. for your goal, you could probably be running your long (and easy) runs at a pace slower than 10:00/mile. use your speedwork/tempo/race pace runs to run "faster", and your easy runs to increase your endurance. - you said that you went out too fast and crashed. it's probably too late to experiment now, but i'd suggest starting out slower than you think you need to and gradually increasing your pace. when you start out too fast, you have a much greater chance of shooting your wad too early in your run. start out slower, and you'll have the energy to continue to push. i think you can do sub-2:00, just don't go out too fast. do your first mile (or three) a little slower than your goal pace, and then dial it up a little. if you're anything like me, you'll find that by mile 5 or 6 you've settled into a comfortable pace below your goal pace and will be fine. you can't "win" your race in the first mile. make sure you leave something for the later portion. and good luck!!!>

        Tick tock

          Thanks for the input and encouragement. Yeah I have been doing my race pace runs faster for one reason. I figure if I can 5 miles at that speed I should have no problem hitting my goal. This seems to not translate in my long runs. I think both of you are right on the starting to fast. Its mental for me. I just can not slow my pace down at the start. Like last week I did the first mile in 8:40, 2nd 9:05, 3rd 8:59. Way to fast and I knew it seeing miles 3 - 7 were all a steady incline with some bigger climbs in there. In your experience with the taper before the 1/2, do your legs come back stronger then your last long run? My last long run is Saturday for 12 miles. Then just a few miles next week with the race on Sat. thanks again for the help.
            I've had similar problems going out a bit too fast in some training runs. The first couple miles should feel really easy. Dont worry, in ther half there will be plenty of time to be tired. You're going to be on the course for close to 2 hours, so an easy 30-45 minutes for the first 3-5 miles isnt really a bad thing. I just ran a HM (2/24)and before the race I had some specific landmarks that I had measured out by mapping the race course on runningahead. I knew how fast I was supposed to be between each of the marks and that enabled me to settle into the correct pace early on. I tried used streets and turns about .3-.5 miles apart and had an exact time I knew I should hit. Be sure to pick some points say .3 miles, .6 mile and 1 mile into the race. Based upon a 9:09 pace you should cover .3 miles in 2:45, .4 miles in 3:40 and .5 miles in 4:35. Dont try to be at the .6 mile mark at a certain point based on your goal pace, just make sure you cover the .3 miles from .3 to .6 in the 2:45. If you do that you'll know you're running at the correct pace. I did this in my race from .5 to 1 mile into the race and I caught myself running about 15 sec/mile too fast and made the adjustment After 5-7 miles you'll probably need to increase your effort a little bit to keep the same pace. That's normal. If you have a heart rate monitor you can use that to measure effort. Try to keep is steady, maybe increase it about 1 beat per mile (heart rate drift). The last 3 miles are usually pretty tough. Your legs will be pretty heavy, you'll have to be mentally strong to keep a steady pace. This doesnt mean push it, you still have 3.1 miles to go. If you've done a good job with your pacing you'll be able to pass people one by one. The last mile you should be able to push it a bit more, afterall its just a mile! When you pass the 13 mile mark you can probably give it all you have as you have less than 200 yards to go, about half a lap on a track. Give it all you have, remember you'll be able to rest in less than a minute!
            PRs 2 mile: 12:30 7/07 5k: 19:39 8/08 10k: 44:12 5/07 HalfM: 1:35:06 2/08 25k: 1:57:30 9/08 Mar: 3:19:07 10/08
            Len


            Damn Yankee

              I also just ran my first half, and my suggestion is that you practice Saturday with your long run. Force yourself to run the first 3 miles around 9:15-9:25, then slowly pick up your pace; cruise at around 9:00 until you complete mile 10. Hammer the last two miles. That kind of workout will really bolster your confidence for your race. Run a few easy miles on Sunday. I was really worried about going out too fast in my half, an error I am prone to make. I started towards the back of the back and really just relaxed for the first few miles until I found my groove. I beat my goal by nearly four minutes and I'm pretty confident my slow start made it possible. If it gets really bad, just remember that there are cheer leaders waiting for you at the finish. I think if you control your pace the first few miles, you'll break 2:00 easily.

              Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending. Carl Bard

                It's a little late in the game to do much that will help you for the 15th, but in the future you would do well to slow down most of your runs and go further. You only need to push it once or twice a week. I do most of my daily runs at 1 1/2 to 2 minutes a mile slower than what I can race a half marathon at and still get plenty of benefit from those runs. If you are struggling towards the end of yours it is a clear message that you need to slow it down. That being said, your training looks good enough for you to break 2 hours. I'd advise that you go with a very conservative start though. If your goal is in the cards it is not going to help you to go out faster than goal pace to bank time. One final note...don't take a bunch of days off, hoping to rest up as so many beginners do. You are better off doing short, easy runs rather than take complete rest days. Good luck.
                Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
                  Thanks everyone. I am going to have to watch my Garmin really close for the first few miles for sure. My schedule for next week is 4 miles on Monday, 30 min tempo on Tuesday, 2 miles on Wed and rest TH and Fri. So I don't think I am taking too much time off before the race. I may even do a little cross training on Friday just to get the legs warmed up. So the debate is still this. Long runs pace effort or slow? what is the best for training? It seems there are lots of different views.


                  Lazy idiot

                    So the debate is still this. Long runs pace effort or slow? what is the best for training? It seems there are lots of different views.
                    You'll get as many different answers as you can find people to give them to you. But my preference is to run easy on long runs. Some people like to run easy during the week and do their long runs as a hard workout. After your race, I'd experiment with what works best for you. Good luck on the 15th.

                    Tick tock

                      So the debate is still this. Long runs pace effort or slow? what is the best for training? It seems there are lots of different views.
                      Most of your long runs should be easy, but you may want to try picking up the pace (to close to race pace) towards the end of your long runs every 3 or 4 weeks. You'll get a feel for what it is like to run near race pace when you are tired. I doubt anyone would recommend running all long runs hard. You'll burn yourself out and not be able to do the other important workouts during the week as well as you should. Also, if you have a Garmin that gives you instant pace feedback you should have no problem staying on or near pace.
                      PRs 2 mile: 12:30 7/07 5k: 19:39 8/08 10k: 44:12 5/07 HalfM: 1:35:06 2/08 25k: 1:57:30 9/08 Mar: 3:19:07 10/08
                        Yeah I am going to set my training partner up for a 2hr goal and keep him in sight for the first 6 miles and then hope to pass him by mile 7 or 8.
                        milkbaby


                          So the debate is still this. Long runs pace effort or slow? what is the best for training? It seems there are lots of different views.
                          You can do both -- one week run a faster long run, another week run a slower long run. But I would definitely recommend against running 12 miles at half marathon pace. That should be reserved for the first 12 miles on race day. If you can do 12 miles at HM pace in the middle of training, then your goal pace is too easy and you could race faster.
                          "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi "I have need to be all on fire, for I have mountains of ice about me to melt." -- William Lloyd Garrison "The marathon is an art; the marathoner is an artist." -- Kiyoshi Nakamura
                            Thanks everyone. I am going to have to watch my Garmin really close for the first few miles for sure. My schedule for next week is 4 miles on Monday, 30 min tempo on Tuesday, 2 miles on Wed and rest TH and Fri. So I don't think I am taking too much time off before the race. I may even do a little cross training on Friday just to get the legs warmed up. So the debate is still this. Long runs pace effort or slow? what is the best for training? It seems there are lots of different views.
                            I don't recommend taking off the last 2 days before the race. You are much better off, imo, to do short, slow runs on those days. If you must take a day off I would go with Thursday rather than Friday. It won't hurt a thing to run, and will probably help. The key is to keep it nice and easy. As far as long run pace, I think it's ok to push the pace for parts of it or even hold a moderate pace for the entire run. However, it's important to go easy on most of your other runs if you do this. Another strategy that seems to work well for me is do a long, easy run the day after a race. What's "pushing the pace", what is "moderate", and what's easy? For me, pushing it would be 30%-50% of the run at half marathon or marathon pace ("ballpark" answer) Moderate would be 60-75 seconds per mile slower than current 10k race pace. Easy (about 70% of my mileage) would be between 1:45 - 2:30 per mile slower than 10k pace From Milkbaby: "You can do both -- one week run a faster long run, another week run a slower long run. But I would definitely recommend against running 12 miles at half marathon pace. That should be reserved for the first 12 miles on race day. If you can do 12 miles at HM pace in the middle of training, then your goal pace is too easy and you could race faster." I agree!
                            Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
                              I think I will use the theory of one long near race pace then a slower one the next week on my next training. I did do 10 miles a few weeks ago at a 9:15 pace so pretty close to the 1/2 pace goal. Its just since then I have not been able to get that close. Either my legs are getting tired from the interval and tempo runs or maybe it just been a bad few weeks for long runs I don't know. Its suppose to snow 5" tonight so my Saturday run will be in the snow and I will have to go slow. Time to leave the garmin home and just enjoy the run and not worry about pace until the race.
                              runnerclay


                              Consistently Slow

                                If you can run 10 miles at 9:15,you will probably drop 20/30 seconds for the race. Start 1/3 of the way back of pack. Do not pass up water for the first 7/8 miles. Stop an drink the whole cup. There is noooo recovery form dehydration Good luck!

                                Run until the trail runs out.

                                 SCHEDULE 2016--

                                 The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

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