long run pace question (Read 1423 times)

Hi guys. A fellow Cool Runner from Cool Running here. This is my first post on this board. I have a question about my long run pace that I would like some opinions on. My 5-K race pace averages 6:25 and 10-K around 7:00-7:20. My long runs are around 10 miles and L/T runs around 7:45 for 5-6 miles. I am currently running my long runs at a pace of around 8:15-8:20 for the 10 miles. Does this sound too fast? I arrived at this time just by where my race paces are and overall feeling of exertion while doing the long runs. I am a seasoned runner of several years and weekly mileage of around 20-30 miles depending on schedule. I am 40, very busy with 2 boys, and do my best to get in a long run, tempo, and speedwork session in a week. I am usually able to squeeze a couple of recovery runs between easy enough. The speedwork usually consists of either 10-12 repeat 200`s at about 6:00 minutes per mile, or 8-10 400`s at 6:10-6:20 pace. This is just the way I have done it 8-10 weeks before each racing season. The main reason I ask, some weeks I get really dead legs, and I also feel I need more than one rest day to fully recover. I have tried slowing things to say 8:30 pace for the long runs, but just really weares me out. I feel much more comfortable in the 8:15-8:20 range. Could it just be my 40 year old body needs more recover time? Thanks guys for your opinions. I look forward to posting over here now.

Just a couple of comments: 1. There's a pretty big gap between your 5k and 10k paces. If you were well-trained for both, there'd be about 16~20 sec between them. Which distance have you raced most recently? 2. If you're doing 6:25 pace for 5k, your L/T pace for 20 minute tempo runs should be around 6:51/mi. For extended tempo runs of 30~60 minutes, appropriate tempo paces go from 7:00~7:15. There's absolutely nothing wrong with 7:45 pace, but it's too slow to do anything for your L/T. 3. Your long run pace is great at 8:15~8:20. Also anything slower is fine, so go with what's comfortable. Overall, your training looks great. Don't get too caught up in the paces I mentioned -- I only bring them up because, well, that's what I do. Training paces from this running calculator based on Daniels' VDOT. As far as the tired legs, consider this: Do a long run every other week. On you LR weeks, do only one quality session (tempo or interval). On your non long run weeks, 2 quality sessions are fine. I think the combination of LR and 2 quality sessions might be causing your dead legs.

Just a couple of comments: 1. There's a pretty big gap between your 5k and 10k paces. If you were well-trained for both, there'd be about 16~20 sec between them. Which distance have you raced most recently? 2. If you're doing 6:25 pace for 5k, your L/T pace for 20 minute tempo runs should be around 6:51/mi. For extended tempo runs of 30~60 minutes, appropriate tempo paces go from 7:00~7:15. There's absolutely nothing wrong with 7:45 pace, but it's too slow to do anything for your L/T. 3. Your long run pace is great at 8:15~8:20. Also anything slower is fine, so go with what's comfortable. Overall, your training looks great. Don't get too caught up in the paces I mentioned -- I only bring them up because, well, that's what I do. Training paces from this running calculator based on Daniels' VDOT. As far as the tired legs, consider this: Do a long run every other week. On you LR weeks, do only one quality session (tempo or interval). On your non long run weeks, 2 quality sessions are fine. I think the combination of LR and 2 quality sessions might be causing your dead legs.

I wonder why that calculator has different (faster) values than this VDOT calculator... For my 5K PR of 21:38, runworks says 8:53 for easy pace (which seems a little fast to me), runbayou says 9:17 (which is the closer to the non-event specific VDOT tables in the 2nd edition). runworks: "Calculations are based on data from Daniels' Running Formula by Jack Daniels PhD." runbayou: "This calculator uses the VDOT tables found in Jack Daniels', Running Formula, 2nd Edition" Don't have my book handy, anyone know what the difference is? Did his recommended paces get slower in the 2nd edition?

I do my training runs at about 2 and a half minutes slower than my marathon pace (just how it has ended up in the past). I view most pace calculators as aggressive for training paces. If your body is telling you to slow down, just go slower. No biggie. Now, keep in mind that I am part of the MAF trainers from CR, so for some, that makes me an evil-doer. Oh, and I am still happily getting faster, so don't let peeps talk you into believing that you will not improve by going slower without trying it yourself. Just sayin'.

C'mon, it's old No. 7. If you're gonna go to the old Jack Daniel's joke, at least get it right.

DAMN

turn the bottle over, it looks like a '2'

turn the bottle over, it looks like a '2'

Good observation. Apparently you're used to looking at bottles of Jack Daniel's from this angle?

For what its worth I don't think you need to worry about pace to much on easy/recovery runs regardless of what it says in some book, as long as you aren't going to fast and 'racing' your easy days of course, which I think is why he gives a range in the book to begin with.

Agreed. When I see a pace calculator give a single pace for easy, I look at that as being a limit. As in easy pace should be equal to or slower than the value.