McMillan's "new" paces (Read 595 times)

runninglurker


    Now that the changes have been out for a while, how many of you are using the faster paces? And how's that working out for you?  I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around my "easy" pace being a mere 20 sec/mile slower than my half marathon pace.

     I use to do a little but a little wouldn't do it, so the little got more and more. I just keep trying to get a little better, said a little better than before.

      that doesn't sound right. A true 1/2M pace is far from easy, and I can't imagine running just 20s/mile slower for an easy day. 20s is about the difference between 1/2M and full marathon pace.

        The calculator may account for the duration of the race (i.e., I've read tempo pace is supposedly the pace you can sustain for an hour at racing effort).  Depending on one's PRs, I can see HMP being not too far off LR pace.

         

        For me, MHP and Easy were at least a minute apart.

        “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

          The calculator may account for the duration of the race (i.e., I've read tempo pace is supposedly the pace you can sustain for an hour at racing effort).  Depending on one's PRs, I can see HMP being not too far off LR pace.

           

          For me, MHP and Easy were at least a minute apart.

          huh?  I cannot run HMP for even 3 miles right now.  How can that be LR pace?

            This made no sense to me so I just went to McMillian and put in my best recent HM pace to see what it spit back for training paces. I can't remember for sure but they do seem faster than what I've seen in the past. I've always thought the McMillian recommended easy paces were too fast but they seem more so  now. I'm not seeing easy paces 20 seconds slower than HM pace (that's crazy talk) but the fastest end of McMillan's Easy range for me is only 10 seconds slower than my marathon PR--that's certainly not easy. The slowest end of the Easy range is about the fastest I ever run on an easy day.

             

            In any case, I can't see adjusting one's easy pace because McMillian running dot com said so.  Clearly it's just working off of an algorithm that needs a little tweaking.

             

            Obviously if a website tells you your easy pace should be only 20 seconds per mile slower than your half marathon race pace, something's busted.

            Runners run.

              I was thinking of slower folks.  OP's log is private, so I can't see PRs.

              “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

              runninglurker


                that doesn't sound right. A true 1/2M pace is far from easy, and I can't imagine running just 20s/mile slower for an easy day. 20s is about the difference between 1/2M and full marathon pace.

                 

                Agreed, which is why I haven't used the new paces much. But when I imput my HM PR (1:49:48) into the calculator, my easy pace range is suppose to be 8:45-9:45. 9:45 feels fairly easy on most days, 8:45 almost never does. But maybe I'm just not trying hard enough... Smile

                 I use to do a little but a little wouldn't do it, so the little got more and more. I just keep trying to get a little better, said a little better than before.

                runninglurker


                  I was thinking of slower folks.  OP's log is private, so I can't see PRs.

                   

                  Opened up my log in all of it's slow glory.

                   

                  As you can see, I'm usually a slug during training runs.

                   I use to do a little but a little wouldn't do it, so the little got more and more. I just keep trying to get a little better, said a little better than before.

                    Opened up my log in all of it's slow glory.

                     

                    As you can see, I'm usually a slug during training runs.

                    FWIW, I had in mind more like 5:30 marathoners, 75-minute 10k'ers, and so on.

                     

                    Just separately plugging in (a) 1:49:48 HM PR and (2) 1:02:447 15k PR gives results with the fast end of easy closer to MP for one v. the other.  Weird.  I'll go with mikeymike's analysis: something's busted.

                    “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

                    happylily


                      Works great for me. I was already running my easy runs about 20 secs slower than MP before the changes, and I felt guilty about it. No reason to feel guilty anymore, turns out I was right. Running 10 miles at 20 secs slower than MP is different than running 20 or 22 miles... It really does feel easy. For my long runs, I force myself to run slower, more like 40 secs slower than MP. But once in a while, I will do a faster LR at 10 to 20 secs slower than MP. I once brought that topic up on Runnersworld and McMillan himself wrote a post about why they made changes to include faster paces. He said that slower runners (meaning most recreational runners) run too slowly their easy training paces. Because we do not even approach overtraining like real elites do, we do not need to be so careful with running at a very easy pace all the time.

                      PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                              Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                      3 years, 13 marathons, 13 BQs     

                         

                        Agreed, which is why I haven't used the new paces much. But when I imput my HM PR (1:49:48) into the calculator, my easy pace range is suppose to be 8:45-9:45. 9:45 feels fairly easy on most days, 8:45 almost never does. But maybe I'm just not trying hard enough... Smile

                         

                        I have similar PRs to yours, and 9:10-9:30 is easy pace for me.  Anything under 9:00 is pushing it a bit.


                        Mmmmm...beer

                          Seems right for me.  I put in my most recent race, my 10k, and it said my easy pace should be 7:32-8:32, which is exactly what I run.

                          -Dave

                           

                          2014 Goals | sub-19 5k | sub-1:26 HM | BQ done!


                          Muddling through

                            If I put in a mile or 5K time, the training paces are on the fast side. If I use a 10K time the paces are about what feels right. If I use anything longer, the training paces are too slow. The difference is that I haven't the endurance to run the longer races at equivalent times to the shorter ones. If I understand how McMillan intends the calculator to be used, I should be using the faster paces from my mile or 5K times.

                            2014 Goals: Run first trail ultra, first 100K, and see what I can do in a 24-Hour race

                              My fastest easy pace is only 4 seconds slower than the suggested MP. I occasionally run at that pace, but I can't say it easy.

                               

                              I can hardly (don't dare) reach the slowest tempo pace. I run about 15 seconds slower than the suggested tempo pace.

                              5k - 20:56 (Sept 30, 2012)

                              7k - 28:40 (Nov 18, 2012)

                              10k trial - 43:08 (Mar 29, 2013), 42:05 (May 05, 2013)

                              FM - 3:09:28 (May 19, 2013)


                              HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                                If I put in a 5K time, they come out too fast, but if I put in a marathon time, they look reasonable for me.

                                It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.