Forums >Racing>My First Ultra! – Training for Ladybower 50 miles…
The plan may be one thing, but going from your current 12-20 mile weeks to 60 miles in 16 weeks might be a bit ambitious in itself. Also maybe not make three of your 4 runs tough workouts with the other being a back to back long run. All 4 of your runs then will be tough, leading to burnout or worse, I'd drop the interval/tempo on Wednesday (the hill work will be enough for a Ultra, speed is likely not going to be your limiter), run easy on Wednesday and Thursday (instead of bike), and keep the rest the same.
I'll be back up to 30mi pw this week, nearer 40 the week after Then the program starts - I've been running lighter mile-weeks of late just after finishing my last marathon April 6th - I feel very fit on my runs at mo and I've done a couple of tough ones so I'm hoping 40 mpw to 60 shouldn't be a jump too far but I take on board what you are saying.
But - I like the idea of having a speed session - I like them and they make me feel fitter and - because they improve fitess - I believe can offer some benefit for ultra training. But I haven't made my mind up, I appreciate the advice about burn out but I believe the 4 runs I have are not all tough. I'll consider what you said though.
I defer to the much more experienced runners out there (John M. here and at runnersworld, Bhearn, wrigley girl, et al) in all things, but those are some of the things that have worked for me.
Sorry, I missed this thread the first time around.
Can I use the FIRST training method for ultras?
No
What ratio of walk/run would you suggest for the long run? I’ve read a ratio of 5:1 is a good place to start – I’m a little downbeat about running 1 mile out of every 6 (that would mean walking for 20 minutes out of every 6 miles) - I’m considering running 4
Is there some reason you think you have to do a run/walk for your long runs? You may or may not be doing this in the race, but it's not something you need to practice much. If you're training on hilly trails, great, but then you should let the terrain dictate your walk breaks.
OK if anyone wants to look at my training plan and let me know what you think please do! In particular let me know what you think about my my taper on weeks 13, 14 and 15 - have I reduced the mileage too much?
The thing that stands out to me (apart from whether you can handle this mileage jump, as mentioned above) is the long runs. You've got 9 runs of 20 miles or more, including two of 35. I don't usually say this, but that may be too much. I'm training for Western States 100, and I'm not doing that much. Are you planning to do those as solo training runs? 26 miles solo is pretty draining, physically and mentally, let alone 35. Followed by 15 the next day, yet. Can you do any of those as easy races? Find a convenient marathon or, especially, 50K? What's the longest training run you've done?
Of course, if you're doing this many long runs, you might need to do that run/walk. But that's a hell of a lot of time on your feet. For someone new to the ultra world, this looks way too physically and mentally abusive.
The other thing is even on your revised plan, you're still only running 5 days / week. That's possible, but 6 or ideally 7 is better.
Oh, and I think a 4-week taper is a bit much.
Good luck.
not bad for mile 25
Kaci Lickteig, ran a 2:50 marathon a week before she broke the course record for Ice Age 50 mile. Not sure if she did the FIRST method, but maybe you could email her? I hear ultras are like 90% mental anyway and training is over rated.
I know her! Well, not really, but she & I have run in a lot of the same races. She tends to be ahead of me. Well ahead.
Thanks bhearn for your thoughts. I suspected I was being a little ambitious with my weekly mileage, but I intended run/walking the long runs (run 4miles/ walk 1/4mile) and the race.
The research I've been reading has leaned towards the run/walk approach- initially this is what drew me in as most folk were saying ulras have a more relaxed approach and, unlike the marathon, you are not training to run the full distance, unless you are an elite runner. It wasn't until reading forums like this that I found some different ideas
Maybe I should train to run a full 35 miler instead? Ummm...
or (as originally planned) run/walk 50 miles. Yep
What is so fuzzy-dazzling about run/walking an ultra
- surely that is the right approach for a first timer? There is a lot of ultra runners out there (blogs such as irunfar.com and others) who prescribe the run/walk method and I'm inclined to agree with them. Running 50 miles??? really?
As far as my mileage is concerned I will start lower and increase to a similar peek mileage but spread that out over 5 days instead of 4. With the run/walk method in mind, I'm going from 35mpw to 60 , increasing my weekly mileage by 10% a week (as per my training plan) including 1 lighter week out of every 3, this is why I thought it would work. Isn't 10-15% the accepted rate of increase?
Having said that I cringe when I look at my long runs, this is something I should look at more carefully.
Looks like I'm going to have to go with one training philosophy and if it works great, if not I'll do it differently next time. I've just been reading one blogger who finished a 50 miler on 30 miles a week??? No problem! So it is down to me I suppose and as someone else pointed out this is an experiment of ONE - I'll have to see what I'm capable of.
I'm almost certainly going to run/walk in training and in the race, but my weekly mileage and my long runs I will defo have a look at.
I'll keep you posted!
Andy from
www.myrunningtips.com
Hi everyone, thought I'd keep you posted
In view of the various advice I have made some alterations to my training program as follows:
The weekly mileage is more gradual and peeks at 59mi (starting from 35, approx increase of 7.5% mpw)
my long runs will consist of run/walking, 15min/3min - I've tried this out and I'm averaging about 11:40/mi overall
I have reduced the hill training frequency slightly and will play it by ear anyway, if feeling fatigued I may replace a hill training day for an easy run instead etc.
OK, let me know what you think. Things going well at mo, except issue with my fivefingers (gonna need a new pair to prevent more blistering) - I'm being catious with my mileage but at the same tim extending my long run to give me the experience of run/walking such long distances.
note: I will run one long run at marathon pace about every 4 weeks (marked as "mp"), the idea being to maintain long distance endurance for running, not just run/walking.
anyway let us know if you have further thoughts. How does it look to you?
My training plan is here