Forums >General Running>What is your opinion of Alberto Salazar as a coach?
1) It is less about drafting and more about not having to do the mental work of running an even pace. 2) Usually for record attempts you will have a rabbit, yes.
1) It is less about drafting and more about not having to do the mental work of running an even pace.
2) Usually for record attempts you will have a rabbit, yes.
My son (13 years old) finds it rather strange rabbits are allowed, but yet in his races competitors are not allowed to wear a watch. I really don't get the no-watch rule, unless it falls under their "no jewelry" umbrella.
Feeling the growl again
Is a rabbit who can pace these record attempts later in the race by being a lap or two down allowed? Just curious
Nope.
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Thanks. Interesting. Has this always been the case? I'm really surprised at this---I've been a bit unaware--I knew they used them in marathons. I just checked on Jim Ryun, and he led the whole race, no drafting or being helped. I would think that part of the craft or sport at that high level would be that you rely on your own sense of pace, and not need someone to draft behind for the first half (I know drafting is part of racing, but when the rabbit is there specifically to poop out half way---and is not really racing---and you are obviously faster than everyone--and the only way you can draft is to have a rabbit---that seems, I don't know, like extra help). I think the same way when I see a caddy helping a pro to line up his putter so it is on line.
Certainly it is a form of aid, but it's one that's accepted. It's kind of a variation on the team tactics that you will see in the Olympics, for example. The Ethiopians have always been good at sheltering and protecting and leading their best runner, allowing him to run his best race.
I think that this sort of stuff seems illegal from the standpoint of the sport as totally individual (and when an athlete is going for a record, that is our sport's most individualistic moment), but most athletes and coaches came up through the team system and idea and understand that there is a runner out there but also a whole network of supporting players. From that perspective, the idea of a rabbit is not so strange.
The pacer(s) must begin the race from the start. You can't have a pacer jump in after the race has begun, nor can they start ahead of the starting line.
Virtually all current distance running world records were done with a pacer.
I understand that they can't jump in or start ahead, but was wondering what's stopping someone from running slow the first mile and be a couple of laps down and rabbit the second mile.
Fast is better than long
But records aren't the same as championship medals.
I think this is a good point. At the youreventnamehere championships or the olympics there is gamesmanship going on within some teams to quasi pace, more to Jeff's point shelter, a runner. But races of that type are typically far more strategic and seldom produce records.
That is not to say records don't get broken in championship races but the win is more important than the time there.
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What in the Jehu?
I think this would be seen as too artificial, but more importantly a) it would be extremely hard to execute well--go from a moderate pace to exactly wr pace, be down exactly x laps with x to go, and then nail the pace... and b) rabbiting is really only necessary for the first part of the race. Once the runner really has to WORK, there's no point in having a pacer: you just go as hard as you can. Rabbiting is for the "holding back" part of the race.
USATF Rule 144(2)(a) -- see page 133 of this PDF.
"I want you to pray as if everything depends on it, but I want you to prepare yourself as if everything depends on you."
-- Dick LeBeau
For the purpose of this Rule the following shall be consideredassistance, and are therefore not allowed:(c) pacing in races by persons not participating in the same race,by athletes lapped or about to be lapped or by any kind oftechnical device.
http://www.iaaf.org/mm/Document/imported/42192.pdf
(eta: clive beat me to it)
Wasn't HF asking for a justification for the rule? I assumed he knew the rule.
Not the way he asked. He said it's obviously a violation to jump into the race, or start ahead (meaning, ahead of the start gun), both of which means you are not legitimately on the track. But was wondering if you can just run slow for a lap or more, which places you legitimately on the track, then let the pack catch up to you and pick it up to pace them. The rule specifically states this is a no-no.
Oh, the justification: (a) it's against the rules; (b) it's just cheesy. You can't in good faith call a guy a "competitor" when he deliberately lollygags to get himself lapped, then rockets to leaders' pace. Doesn't seem that the lollygagger is really "beginning the race from the start".
Perhaps the notion is that pace-setting is tolerated by those who start together, and the leader still has to perform the work when it's hardest: at the end, with no help. Letting a non-competitor start carrying the leader that deep into the race just seems repugnant.
Thanks, guys. I was getting jittery there.
My grandfather used to have a favorite quip, "no number can't be cut in half," which he followed by stating that as well, nobody can't be improved. It isn't about "artistic measure", Its about what defines perfection; what measurements define the point whereas a runner cannot improve biomechanically? Without defining that reality, what is anyone being trained toward?
My grandfather used to have a favorite quip, "no number can't be cut in half," which he followed by stating that as well, nobody can't be improved.
It isn't about "artistic measure", Its about what defines perfection; what measurements define the point whereas a runner cannot improve biomechanically?
Without defining that reality, what is anyone being trained toward?
Are they not being trained to cover a specific distance as quickly as possible? Better aerobic capacity, better economy, better biomechanics, etc all help a runner do just that: run faster.
The ultimate goal, and singular measure of improvement, is race times.
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To put a finer point on it: if you improved biomechanical efficiency to some absurd level where you can run 26.2 miles without breaking a sweat, but you can only do it at 9min/mile pace it won't matter much in the world of competitive marathons . . . even if you can carry a 70% body-weight load on your head while doing it.
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