Help withTraining plan for Boston (Read 174 times)

I am not really a new runner, I am 65 years old and have been running for over 20 years, but I am asking for some basic advice about training. I wish to run the Boston Marathon and to be sure of not being cut off I figure I would need to run five minutes faster than the qualifying time, like a 4 hour 5 minute marathon, a 9:20 pace. Pardon me while I give detailed report of my past experience. My best time for the full was 4:10:44 back in '97 and for the half was 1:44:36 in '95. My last full marathon was in 2004 with a 4:35:03 time. Now in September this year I ran a half marathon in 2 hours 10 minutes 35 seconds, just better than a 10 minute mile pace. Note that this race involved lots of hill climbs.

I basically am a jogger who likes to run long slow distances. I find long runs relaxing and I enjoy being outdoors looking at the scenery. Last year I gradually increased my long runs about a mile each week. For training for this year's half I ran 40 plus miles each week for six weeks, then ran a 36 mile week and then a 12 mile week just before the race. I would have a least one rest day and as my training progressed did less days with longer mileage, some weeks only doing three long runs. My longest run got up to be over 20 miles. I did little speed work, but found I would sometimes feel like running a bit faster during a level section maybe 8 miles into a run. Note that almost all my runs involve some hills, generally with up to 300 foot climbs. I started again with my training mid-December after a break in running and am up to about a 20 mile week with a long run of 9 miles.

This Christmas I got a Garmin which I am upgrading to one with a heart rate monitor. Today I ordered three books on heart rate training and plan to use that to increase my pace. My plans are to do a 29 mile run several weeks before my Oct 1st marathon. I plan to run "the Wineglass", a mostly downhill point to point marathon, next October. Note that I am not a structured type of guy and when I run any speed it will be more like fartlek (speed play) rather than running intervals of set distances or time. Hopefully my Garmin will give me my speed on the fly and I can use that to run sections of my courses at race pace.

My concerns are possibly over training with all the distance runs. I am thinking of only doing the 18 mile plus runs on alternate weeks. Also, since my pace on the long runs is so slow I don't think I am overdoing it to a burnout degree. My other training concern is to do enough speed to get up to my race pace of 9:20. I know I will have to be able to run faster than that for shorter distances to be sure of being able to maintain my goal pace, I calculate that I would need to be close to being able to do a 7 minute mile to predict a 9:20 marathon pace. I have looked a various plans, most of them do not involve running great distance, some have only an 18 mile long run before the race! Also, my training period is like 40 weeks! Most modern training involves training to a peak, backing off and then training to another peak.  Now, I don't intend to give up the long, slow distance which I enjoy or get too structured, but will consider any advice from my fellow runners that my help me with my goal!

I am not an expert (only have run 2 marathons) but I think that this is a relatively uncommon way to train for a marathon.  That is, most plans top out at 20 or 22 miles.  I can't imagine running 29 miles just a few weeks before a Full and being rested enough to perform well at the Full.  Some people thrive on ultra distance runs, however, so others might disagree.

 

I had a training plan written for my 2nd marathon and it alternated weekly long runs (18-22 milers) with Fast finish type or steady state 15 milers.  This seemed to be a balanced approach and worked reasonably well for BQing.

 Thanks runsinskirts! My reason for wanting to run further than 26.2 is to develop endurance. By running  longer training courses I believe that I will not "run out of steam" in the last few miles of a race and I read this in one of Galloway's books . I want to do the 29 mile run at least three weeks or more before the race. From what I have read the recovery time should be enough days to equal the miles ran in  long distance run, so 29 days or more would be fine. As I said I am not running the longer distances fast at all. On the other hand these runs have lots of hills and the race I am planning is mostly flat or slightly downhill, so my strength and endurance should be good even if I don't get up to that long a distance.

I think your suggestion of alternating long runs with faster, shorter steady runs or some fast finishes is a good idea and would help me to develop some speed..

Thanks Seanv2 ! Your analysis was helpful and I read about a dozen of the men's reports nearest to my age, although only one was in my age group of 65 plus. In one way it was discouraging, you report all qualifiers had run more than 1000 miles that year and  my total millage last year was less than 900 miles. Although I intend to increase my weekly distance, I had just planned to get up to running 45 miles each week, maybe getting up to 60. Still, since I started training a few weeks earlier this year and plan on longer distances I might just get above a 1000 miles before the race.

I am taller (6 ft) and heavier (174 lbs.) than what you have as the typical qualifier. I have read that ideally your weight should be twice you height in inches, which would be 144 pounds for me.  My goal is to get my weight down below 160. Note that I did have my weight closer to 150 back in the early 90's.

Most of your respondents  say it was the combination of distance and speed running which worked for them. I definitely need to incorporate more speed work. Because of the hills I am running I don't think I can run the entire distance of my training courses at race pace, the really steep grades do slow me down to a creeping shuffle.

Also of interest was the graph of the most popular training plans. I am not going to follow any set plan, but like to get some ideas of what I must do and now I can see what are the most followed plans.

Looks like you need some bulking up of the middle age 40-44 year old ladies. I can't say that I have much of an interesting story but maybe I'll fill it out.

I would discourage a 29 mile run before your marathon. Increases injury risk, increases risk you will not be recovered in time and it is not a standard training protocol. You will build your endurance during the next several months, not from one super long run that body will not be happy from. Your training will be already be in when you want to do a 29 mile training run. Slow or not. Not smart eve at a slow or walk/run pace. Get in some 3 hour long runs a few  times. You will be ready.

Thanks tchuck! Well, I see you are a low millage trainer, so you may be a bit bias against long distances. Perhaps others may log in with different opinions. I have had injuries in the past, bad knee, Achilles tendon, but these were the result of suddenly increasing my millage. I learned to be constant and increase my long run by a mile or less each week.  I also know to back down on the millage if I do have a problem. I will think about what you said, I am sure that I am not following any current standard training, let alone the latest techniques.

Joann Y, I see you agree the tchuck. I may have to pick up some of the books you recommend and check out how people train. Note that after my HM I  took several weeks  time off and basically am starting from "scratch" and just working up to doing a 40 mile week. Funny how quickly you lose fitness once you stop. The icy weather (and I don't want to run treadmills) makes it harder to motivate yourself to run and to get to 40 miles, I would have to average close to 7 mile runs six days a week. I guess I need to get my butt in gear!

Thanks Klikee! My long runs last year were at a very slow pace and usually I took a rest stop midway for a few minutes or so. The runs I did that were 4 hours long were only 17 miles. My longest run of 20.81 miles took me 5:07:07! So if I go with your advice to do 22 miles in under 4 hours I will have to be much faster in my training runs! BTW, my goal time is 4 hours 5 minutes and my pace would have to be 9:20. A 9:11 pace would be closer to a 4 hour marathon.

Thanks tchuck! Well, I see you are a low millage trainer, so you may be a bit bias against long distances. 

I try to maximize training on lower miles as I am unable to run higher miles for physical reasons (childhood lawn mower accident) causing issues into adulthood. I am for smart and optimal training whether running 20 miles per week or 100 miles per week. The more you run, the more often you run, the better you perform.  With all things being equal, those who run 60 miles per week will likely perform better than those running 40 miles per week. The long run is very important however what you do during the week over many weeks is just as important - some could argue more important. 99% of running coaches would tell you to not do that 29 mile long run. I would predict this run 3 wks before would negatively affect your performance in the marathon. I hope you find what works for you. You have time!!