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Effort/ Pacing for Run/Walk runs (Read 1012 times)

Wingz


Professional Noob

    A few weeks ago, my PT strongly suggested to me that I switch over to run/walk training for the problems we were working with. Prior to that time I had been running pretty much everything at "easy" (and sub-easy) pace, and felt pretty confident that I knew about where I should be, effort-wise, in my training. I have a history of not running hard enough. Often when I'm doing my easy runs, if I'm not in any particular hurry, I could (and sometimes do) sing a little while I'm running. Blush However, I know what I'm supposed to be doing. Then, I switched over to run/walk intervals. Picking interval times from the Galloway website, (http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/walk_breaks.html)I decided that I should be somewhere between a 30sec/30 sec interval to around 2 min run/1 min walk. I started out at 30 sec/30 sec and have been working towards that 2:1 interval. One thing I have discovered in breaking my running up into such short intervals is that it allows me to put a LOT more effort into the intervals without feeling as much fatigue. My running stride has changed. My running form has changed. For the better, I think, though I did have some initial muscle soreness a few days. Instead of finding my pace slower for adding the walk-breaks, I'm finding my overall pace is faster. But the runner in my keeps asking, "Is this really an 'easy' run if I'm running this hard for this inerval? If I'm only able to talk at the end of my walk break, is that still easy?" How do I know how hard to run my intervals? If I run them at the same pace OR effort that I ran straight, I find that I'm not really getting a good workout because there's all this walking mixed in. I can run harder for these intervals... and think I should... but I don't know HOW much harder. Should I reach a comfortable "talking" recovery by the end of my walk breaks? By the middle? Near the beginning? Should I still be able to talk during the running portion? I know there's a run/walk group here on RA, but it appears to be inactive. Anyone here have experience with transitioning from straight running to run/walk intervals?

    Roads were made for journeys...

    Teresadfp


    One day at a time

      Great question, Wingz, and one that I was thinking about posting myself. I attended a Galloway clinic last week and decided to try to use his method since I'm still recovering from an injury. I used a 1 min run / 1 min walk ratio Friday on my 12-mile run on the HM course we'll be running next week. Afterwards, I looked at my Garmin data and compared it to a previous long run. On the non-stop run, I truly "ran" (according to SportTracks' definition of sub-10 mpm pace) only 2% of the time. With the run/walk method, I ran almost 18% of the time. After 9 miles, my friend and I still felt great, and were doing the running intervals sub-10 pace. A woman asked Galloway last week at the clinic how slowly you should walk. He said slow enough to recover during the walk. So I took that to mean if I'm recovering OK before I start running again, I'm not running too fast during those intervals. All I know is that we finished the 12-mile run in decent shape, and that's the farthest we've ever gone. Now we're looking forward to the HM instead of dreading it. To be honest, if we'd tried to run that non-stop on Friday, I think we would have bagged the race - it's a very hilly course, at least it seems that way to me! It will be interesting to see what people think!
      AmoresPerros


      Options,Account, Forums

        I tried run/walking once, and it was too tedious to pay attention to when to switch -- do you have some sort of watch that beeps at you to tell you, or do you keep looking down to see when to switch (like I did, and I didn't like having to do that)?

        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

        Teresadfp


        One day at a time

          I set my Garmin to beep every minute, since I was doing 1 minute walking, then 1 minute running. The time beep is louder than the distance alert, so it worked fine. You can also set it to intervals, but I haven't learned how to do that yet. This is an interval timer that will set two intervals, so you could use whatever ratio you want. I haven't used it, but my running partner just ordered it. http://www.jeffgalloway.com/detail.aspx?ID=49
            When I do run/walking, I use the gymboss like is found at the link above and it works when set to beep. I was running 4 min and walking 1 so it was essential to have a timer that allowed to put in two different times for the intervals.
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              One thing I have discovered in breaking my running up into such short intervals is that it allows me to put a LOT more effort into the intervals without feeling as much fatigue. My running stride has changed. My running form has changed. For the better, I think, though I did have some initial muscle soreness a few days.
              This is having a benefit like intervals. People's form generally does improve with harder running.
              Instead of finding my pace slower for adding the walk-breaks, I'm finding my overall pace is faster. But the runner in my keeps asking, "Is this really an 'easy' run if I'm running this hard for this inerval? If I'm only able to talk at the end of my walk break, is that still easy?" How do I know how hard to run my intervals? If I run them at the same pace OR effort that I ran straight, I find that I'm not really getting a good workout because there's all this walking mixed in. I can run harder for these intervals... and think I should... but I don't know HOW much harder.
              That's not unusual. I know many people can run/walk faster than run only, esp. if hills are involved. I know in my last race that I could've run the entire course, but it was definitely faster to walk the hills at the intensity I was running at the time. (been there done that as far as trying to push hills too fast) It's not clear from the table you linked to whether those paces are during the run part or average across the run and walk - but it's one or the other. Technically, I think an "easy" run should be consistently easy, but with this run/walk approach, the impact and need for recovery is probably less than an "easy" run, so I probably wouldn't worry too much about it. One thing I do worry about with this approach though is that the paces (whether the interval or overall) might be a bit on the fast side and encourage poor pacing. That is, the person learns to run harder than they can sustain for a normal run, and they never learn to maintain effort/pace. At some point, I think some of the runs, esp. the shorter ones, should be continuous runs - IF the person is intending to improve their running. Some of us are happy run / walking and would rather run/walk for many hours than run only for a couple hours (not quite true since I enjoy both, but using that as conceptual example). I do like to improve my running, but find it improves the most by including walks in some of the runs, although usually for terrain.
              Should I reach a comfortable "talking" recovery by the end of my walk breaks? By the middle? Near the beginning? Should I still be able to talk during the running portion?
              JMHO, but I'd guess you should be able to talk during the running portion, although it might be in short sentences, if you're really new and working to run at all. Some could be harder. MTA: While I run / walk for terrain, I've only run/walk by time once or twice in recent years and maybe in injury recovery where I'd be out for 1 yr with AT. The intervals that Galloway suggests are sufficiently short that they'd blow my mind and I could never get a rhythm going. I enjoy just running and running free of constraints as much as possible. But that's my mentality and has absolutely nothing to do with good or bad training - just what turns me on. Others like more structure, and if they're on flat terrain, the timed intervals make a lot of sense.
              "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
              Roses Revenge


                I'm in transition from walking to running and am finding that for right now I walk faster than I run. It's hard for me to do run/walk intervals by time since I can't hear the watch beep. What I've been doing when I go out from home is run a block and walk a block. I live in an area where the blocks are very even in length. I seem to be able to keep this up pretty consitently for up to about 5 miles and then I will run a block and walk two. On Saturday, I was still able to run after 20 miles although not as far. My plan is to build the endurance in my legs for the running before I try to build more speed. I know it will come. Rose 6 marathons. 3 half marathons. 1 5K So far.

                Marathon Maniac #991 Half Fanatic #58 Double Agent #22  It's a perfect day and I feel great!

                Teresadfp


                One day at a time

                  Galloway said the paces he gives you INCLUDE the walking portions. So to average 13 mpm overall, you'd have to do the running intervals faster than that.
                  Wingz


                  Professional Noob

                    One thing I do worry about with this approach though is that the paces (whether the interval or overall) might be a bit on the fast side and encourage poor pacing. That is, the person learns to run harder than they can sustain for a normal run, and they never learn to maintain effort/pace. At some point, I think some of the runs, esp. the shorter ones, should be continuous runs - IF the person is intending to improve their running. Some of us are happy run / walking and would rather run/walk for many hours than run only for a couple hours (not quite true since I enjoy both, but using that as conceptual example). I do like to improve my running, but find it improves the most by including walks in some of the runs, although usually for terrain.
                    Run/walking seems to be working well for me. Had a really good long run this week that ended up being faster than the last time I ran that course with straight running. Plus it's less painful. I may stick with run/walking for quite some time... Hmm...
                    JMHO, but I'd guess you should be able to talk during the running portion, although it might be in short sentences, if you're really new and working to run at all. Some could be harder.
                    First time I read this I was thinking, "No way!" Now that I've had more experience with run/walking, I'm finding that this is actually becoming true for me. I think I just needed more time to work out my own pace here. I'm becoming able to run relaxed but well for the intervals and recovering during the walking. It's working for me! Sorry I didn't mention this earlier. I've been running about 3 years, highest mileage has been around 30 mpw. Currently in upper teens. I've been plagued by chronic knee and hip problems and am currently working with a physical therapist to strengthen my hip and stabilizing muscles so that I can support my form during running (and thus hopefully quit injuring myself!!!). My "easy" pace pre-run/walk averaged around 14 min/mile, depending on terrain and weather. Run/walking has let me open up my stride, lifting knees more, pushing off with supporting leg more, and feel more like "running" than "jogging." I was PROUD to be a "jogger" because three years ago that was impossible for me. Now, with run/walk, my running form's more like slow "running" and it just *feels* better. Different, but better. This is NOT an invitation for a jogger vs runner debate. This is me commenting on the different ways moving at different paces feels for my body. I think the faster pace is agreeing with me and will ultimately let me become a better runner. We runners were not meant to shuffle, which is what I've been doing for three years. I'm happy with how I'm progressing now, and feel kind of like like I'm actually learning to run. All over again. That may not make any sense to you, but it's how I feel.

                    Roads were made for journeys...

                    Teresadfp


                    One day at a time

                      I'm glad it's working for you, Wingz! I feel exactly as you do - it's fun to feel like I'm "running" instead of just "plodding." I am still doing non-stop runs, but the run/walk ones are good for me, also. I did a 4-mile run yesterday non-stop and FASTER than I've been doing them lately, and it felt fairly easy. The run/walking is letting my body know what it is capable of - previously, I've been hesitant to move that quickly, if that makes sense. Smile
                        Run/walking has let me open up my stride, lifting knees more, pushing off with supporting leg more, and feel more like "running" than "jogging."
                        Newbie question here: I've read (here on RA and elsewhere) that lengthening your stride can lead to injury, so I've been sticking to a pretty short stride (I'm still relatively new and slow so it's not so much that I am ready to increase my stride, but I feel like I'm never going to get faster if I don't lengthen my stride at some point). So does the run/walk thing change all that (maybe having the immediate recovery between running bouts helps stave off injury)?
                        2009 Goals:
                        PR 5K (Ha, current 43:10)
                        Run a 10K
                        Meet Seasonal Weight Loss Challenges
                        Complete my first Sprint Tri


                        Why is it sideways?

                          Good for you, Wingz. I think that this is definitely something worth trying.
                          Scout7


                            Newbie question here: I've read (here on RA and elsewhere) that lengthening your stride can lead to injury, so I've been sticking to a pretty short stride (I'm still relatively new and slow so it's not so much that I am ready to increase my stride, but I feel like I'm never going to get faster if I don't lengthen my stride at some point). So does the run/walk thing change all that (maybe having the immediate recovery between running bouts helps stave off injury)?
                            Lengthening your stride will not cause injury in and of itself. One good way to do it is to run up hills. Here is a good way to do it. Overstriding is generally bad. But that can happen with a short stride, too. What happens is that your foot lands out in front of your body, causing a braking action. The foot should land more underneath you. Generally, most people can let their stride just develop naturally.
                            Wingz


                            Professional Noob

                              Newbie question here: I've read (here on RA and elsewhere) that lengthening your stride can lead to injury, so I've been sticking to a pretty short stride (I'm still relatively new and slow so it's not so much that I am ready to increase my stride, but I feel like I'm never going to get faster if I don't lengthen my stride at some point). So does the run/walk thing change all that (maybe having the immediate recovery between running bouts helps stave off injury)?
                              My 3-ish year running experience has included strides that I have described to myself as "weak bent-knee'd shuffle", "medium bent-knee'd shuffle," "strong bent-knee'd shuffle," and "slow jog." Earlier this year I became comfortable with "medium jog." This month I am adding a new one to my list: "relaxed run." Like Scout said, what you're wanting to avoid is "overstriding." Intentionally placing your foot far ahead of you in an effort to make your stride longer is just generally a BAD IDEA. I don't think I personally would have been ready for "relaxed run" the first couple of years I was running due to my body type, muscle imbalances, general weakness, lack of aerobic capacity, etc. My experiences do not align with many new runners, though, so I honestly have no idea what will work for you. My best all-around advice would be for you not to worry about stride length at this point in the game. Instead, just continue to concentrate on making running a part of your normal life, something you enjoy doing on a regular, consistant basis.

                              Roads were made for journeys...

                              jb944


                              Chicago RnR 1/2 Marathon

                                wingz - I'm becoming a big fan of the run/walk, too, and it is increasing my pace. I was about 1/2 way through OHR when I started noticing my left leg was a little more tired/sore than normal. Since I spent the first 2-1/2 months of this year in PT with severe tendinitis, I decided to pay attention to it. The run/walk seems less stressful, and I just did my second 5+ mile run this morning! Maybe we should start a group for run/walk???
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