Forums >General Running>Improving my 5K Time/Days Off Question
Hi All,
I've been back running for a year now after a little 17 year break. My 5K time is down to 19:21, and I'm generally running 6 days a week now, usually 30-40 miles per week. I've done a few half marathons and 10Ks as well. I am aiming to run another 5K in the next two months and want to drop my time under 19 minutes. Does anyone have any great workouts that will increase my speed? I feel like most of the ones I have done are better for longer distances. Thoughts on the Yasso 800 workouts? I've done them quite a bit and like them but am unsure of their effectiveness. I know in order to dip my per mile time from 6:14 to say 6:06 I am going to have to increase my speed work.
Also, What do you all do for rest/days off after going through a training cycle? I just trained six days a week for about two months and am going to take a week off fully to rest the legs. What does everyone out there do in terms of planning off weeks after training for a race?
TIA!
Are we there, yet?
Thoughts on Yasso 800s: They're great for Bart Yasso as an evaluation tool. They are not good as a training tool. Regular 800m intervals would be better as Yasso 800s tend to be at too slow a pace. Use one of the many running calculators to get an appropriate pace range. The MacMillan calculator is one that is popular with many RA members. It probably wouldn't hurt to increase your weekly mileage either, but that's probably better left to the future since you're looking at a 2 month window right now.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
Thanks for that advice. This training calculator/performance predictor always throws me off because when I see the times it projects me to run they seem far too fast. I'm running a 6:14 paced 5K but I can/should be able to run a half marathon at 6:43 pace? My last half in March was at a 7:06 pace and I felt like I pushed pretty hard to get there. Just seems really aggressive to me. Either way, if this calculator says my 5K goal time should be 6:07 pace should I be targeting speed workouts that are repeats of 400/800 meters at that time or a faster time?
It's common to see equivalent (not the same as predicted) times at longer distances much faster than actual race times. That's loosely correlated to average weekly mileage, since you really need higher mileage to run as well at longer distances as you do at shorter ones. The training paces should be based on current fitness level, and I believe that's the way McMillan works. Easy to test by changing your goal time and seeing if that changes the training paces.
McMillan gives a range because runners vary in whether they are more speed or endurance oriented. As long as you are in or near the designated range, you should be fine. It also takes some time to adapt to running faster paces if you aren't used to them. It's also harder to hit those paces running a workout solo rather than with a group all running about the same ability. You'll get day to day variations as well depending on weather, sleep, other activities, even time of day.
As a side note in case you noticed that the races listed in my signature are ultra races, not 5K-10K. I spent 45 years focusing on shorter races before I moved to the ultra distances, so I do have a little experience there.
an amazing likeness
...This training calculator/performance predictor always throws me off because when I see the times it projects me to run they seem far too fast....
The McMillan calculator is fairly aggressive and assumes you have the training mileage needed to support the growth in distance. Projecting from your 19:21 5K to 13.1mi on 30mpw requires a larger 'fade factor' for a lower training miles load than the calculator is using.
Acceptable at a dance, invaluable in a shipwreck.
That makes sense. There's only so much you can improve given how much you're training obviously. Do you have any good speed workouts you'd recommend? I'm guessing if I keep the same amount of miles (roughly) but mix in some more focused speed/tempo workouts I could see some slight gains. Right now my week almost always looks like this...
Sun-Long
Mon-Rest
Tue-Speed/Tempo
Wed-Easy
Thur-Easy/Moderate (marathon pace)
Friday-Easy
Saturday-Speed Tempo
I know many people who are of a very high opinion of McMillan's plans: - https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/best-5k-workout/
Pete Magill should also be pretty good - he has a book (check amazon) - "Fast 5K: 25 Crucial Keys and 4 Training Plans"
Oh.... One more - a link, I would say to a classical article (classical - because I read it so many years ago , when I was so young - like 47 or 48 ) - https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20806851/solving-the-5k-puzzle/
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
SMART Approach
You have a lot more in you. Give yourself time. You are doing great. You will get more bang for your buck by gradually jumping your miles to 45-50 and still mixing in some faster work if thinking about making steady gains going forward. With your plan, the structure is ok....I would take your marathon pace day and make it easy with striders. A long run and 2 speed work days is fine and plenty but 30 miles per week is not a high mileage runner to support a lot of speed work. Just know that pounding more and more speed work may give you a short term spike but may affect your longer term progress and increase injury risk which would halt all progress.
Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery
Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training
Safe Muscle Activation Recovery Technique
www.smartapproachtraining.com
Thanks Chuck, so would a weekly schedule below look right to you (with increasing my mileage a bit)? Man, it seems really tough to make the leap from say my usual 38-40 miles to 50 for some reason once I put it down on paper. What is your feedback on something like this below? My easy days I am usually running at 8:00/8:15ish pace (again my HM pace was 7:06). This schedule would give me 5 easy days and two speed days. Does this look right? Thanks all!
Sun-Long 12 miles
Tue-Speed/Tempo (5 miles?)
Wed-Easy 8 miles
Thur-Easy with striders 8 miles
Friday-Easy 8 miles
Saturday-Speed Tempo (4 miles)