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Weight Training Plans for Runners? (Read 5178 times)

    Sorry, chum. It was only a negative statement because you took it as such. There was no negativity intended. And if you think "stick figure" is inaccurate, you ain't paying attention. (And how come "muscleheads" was okay?)
    I don't think stick figure is innacurate, that wasn't the point I was making. It was the fact that you assumed that he was weak and pathetic just because he was fast and thin. I know I'm a stick figure, it's just how I am. I would be if I didn't run and I would probably be if I lifted weights a lot. As Jeff said, it's much easier for stick figures to do pull ups and push ups anyways, because they don't have a lot to push or pull.
      If you'd like to have a pull-up contest, I'm game. Any time.
      You're on, hippie. But you've got to wear a weight belt to make it even, though. I still remember Recruit Rivera in Boot Camp: he set the company record doing 67 pull-ups and gave himself blisters on the palms - because he weighed 100 pounds. No fair. Meanwhile, the platoon guide could bench 400 but could barely pass the PFT because he had trouble pulling his 250 pounds of muscle up to the bar. Like I said: it's all choices. No judgments being made about it. You pick your priorities and take the plusses and minuses that go with your choices. Find us a pull-up bar after the CMM. Assuming you're willing to wait around for a couple hours after you finish, and wait for me to stop dry heaving and chugging Pabst Blue Ribbon.
      E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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        Find us a pull-up bar after the CMM. Assuming you're willing to wait around for a couple hours after you finish, and wait for me to stop dry heaving and chugging Pabst Blue Ribbon.
        Well, almost any time. And, you're right--I just looked in the mirror. I'm a skinny-ass punk. Which doesn't make me better than you. Just skinnier. There are actually quite a few runners who would benefit (I think) from backing off on mileage for a period of time and concentrate on weights. I ran my mile PR after being injured for two months and basically just doing upper-body work. Go figure.
        Scout7


        CPT Curmudgeon

          I ran my mile PR after being injured for two months and basically just doing upper-body work. Go figure.
          Yeah, but running the mile is alot different than running 26.2, or 13.1, or even 3.1 miles. My statement was that I have not seen any definitive study showing improved, or reduced, running from weight training. Not strength training, weight training. I think that weigh training, generally speaking, can help in some cases, but hurt in others. YMMV. I also think there's a distinct difference between lifting weights, and doing push-ups/sit-ups/dips.
            I don't think stick figure is innacurate, that wasn't the point I was making. It was the fact that you assumed that he was weak and pathetic just because he was fast and thin.
            I'm honestly sorry you were offended - but if you'll actually read what I wrote, you won't find the word "pathetic," and I was pretty clear that "weak" is a subjective choice based on priorities. That is in fact the whole point I've been making in this thread. You choose your strengths - or what you decide to prioritize. That Crupiea guy up there lifting weights "to build mass" is making a choice. Not a good one or a bad one, just a choice. He's choosing his strengths. By my mysterious elite stick figure friend's standards, I'm awfully weak. And for the record, I *am* a runner (no matter how weak you may think I am in that regard), so obviously I hold the stick figures in awe, rather than the contempt you're imagining. If you think I actually have a negative opinion of my stick figure friends, you've never read a word I've written here - starting with my fawning hero worship of hippie Jeff. Who also has his panties in a bunch. You stick figures are so touchy. I'm gonna go make fun of some muscleheads and see if they're the same. Hey, since we're all being hyper-sensitive and neurotic, should I be all offended about this?
            The fact is, everyone should be allowed to make a decision on how seriously they take the sport or not.
            Did you just imply that since I made my own choices and will never be able to catch my neighborhood hippie, I'm not taking running seriously? I'm outraged. Not really. Bah. Message boards. I should be banned. Or confined to the 2000 club, where Jeff or Mike would have just called me a fat ass slowpoke (or worse). Or I should learn to use emoticons. Again, sorry you were offended. That goes for all you skinny bastards. My intent couldn't have been farther from that.
            E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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            Scout7


            CPT Curmudgeon

              Monkeyman, You're a fatass slowpoke. And it's JTH, not hippie Jeff. Now, the two of you, go hug, share a banana.


              I've got a fever...

                But save at least one of those Pabst Blue Ribbons for me... Big grin

                On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                  Pam, is there a thread around here somewhere where you outline exactly how you got those results? (I just noticed that Muse asked the same question ...) I'm particularly looking for a woman's experience. My fiancee has now dropped 45 pounds and gone from a size 12 to a size 2, but where she wants to go now is more towards body shaping, which you obviously know something about. She's been doing a lot of Pilates and Yoga, and runs about 20 mpw, and her diet is a hella lot better than mine. She's not looking for more mass, just toning and maybe a little definition (emphasis probably on abs, hips, and arms). So share your secrets somewhere. Maybe start a new thread, if it's too much high-jacking.
                  I've actually posted some of my eating as well as my workout program in the womens forum. One thing your better half should know is that weight lifting won't bulk her up! What it will do is change her body composition. When I weighed 115 with not much muscle mass but a hell of a lot more fat I wore size 0-2. Now I'm 126, alot less fat with muscle and wear a size 2-4 in pants (though a medium in shirts since I've got really broad shoulders).

                  Your toughness is made up of equal parts persistence and experience. You don't so much outrun your opponents as outlast and outsmart them, and the toughest opponent of all is the one inside your head." - Joe Henderson

                    I'm a skinny-ass punk. Which doesn't make me better than you. Just skinnier. There are actually quite a few runners who would benefit (I think) from backing off on mileage for a period of time and concentrate on weights. I ran my mile PR after being injured for two months and basically just doing upper-body work. Go figure.
                    Well, you definitely got the punk part right. Again, my apologies. Go read what I just wrote to the other guy. I beg the forgiveness of the legion of stick people preventing me from winning age group awards. On a technical note, I'm curious about what you just wrote. I've completely stopped lifting for the CMM, and I feel weak in the upper body. I wonder if that will help me or hurt me in the last half. I plan to start strength training again after the race. I'll be curious to see if the extra mass I might build will slow me down, or be offset by overall strength gains that might make me faster at some distances. Then again, as always, when you're as slow as me, you can never tell what exactly leads to improvement. There's just so much room for it. That's it, I'm banishing myself for a while. Hippies of the world rejoice. Speaking of hippies .... this one's for you. I laughed for an hour after I saw this. Note the date it premiers, by the way. You stoners will get it. Take that, hippies: http://www.worstpreviews.com/trailer.php?id=324&item=2
                    E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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                      . I ran my mile PR after being injured for two months and basically just doing upper-body work. Go figure.
                      Which brings up another question - do you think for most people it is best to allow a certain time frame say 4-6 weeks( :rollSmile to allow total recovery from a year's worth of mileage? I'm talking non-injury time off - no running. Maybe we could make a place to sticky Pam's routine so we could find it easily. We had a thread going in the women's locker room about that - maybe we could copy that with Pam's permission. Pam works really hard with her training and her diet. So if you wanted to look like Pam, and you followed her strict diet and training - isn't there still a genetic component at play? Like Muse said - she has calf muscles - so do I, and I got mine from just running. Abs? My body is programmed to collect fat around my middle (that whole apple/pear thing). I can have a defined waist - and be really lean everywhere else, but I still have a "thicker" fat layer over my abdomen. - if I were to drop enough BF to actually show my abs (and I can feel ridges under there Tongue) - I have a feeling that I would look somwhat anorexic. Speaking of calf muscles..along with the genetic component - how about running style? I have heard Chi runners saying they don't need big calf muscles because of their running style. Which leads me to think about the Kenyans and their skinny legs - is it genetic,running style or combination of both?

                      Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take our breath away...(unkown)




                      Go With The Flow
                      Thyroid Support Group

                        I can't imagine taking 4-6 weeks off (unless injured but then I don't want to think about that)! I think genetics has a part to play in things but not as much as people think. I don't think I've met anyone in my family (men included) that were very muscular. The women tend to carry their weight in their butts and thighs I was told my whole life that I would get fat sooner or later since it's in our genetics. Of course I refused to believe that and have proven otherwise. Key to anything is consistancy and determination.

                        Your toughness is made up of equal parts persistence and experience. You don't so much outrun your opponents as outlast and outsmart them, and the toughest opponent of all is the one inside your head." - Joe Henderson

                          I think genetics has a part to play in things but not as much as people think. I don't think I've met anyone in my family (men included) that were very muscular. The women tend to carry their weight in their butts and thighs I was told my whole life that I would get fat sooner or later since it's in our genetics. Of course I refused to believe that and have proven otherwise. Key to anything is consistancy and determination.
                          Pam - you are an inspiration - I feel an experiment coming on ! Wink

                          Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take our breath away...(unkown)




                          Go With The Flow
                          Thyroid Support Group

                            I ran my mile PR after being injured for two months and basically just doing upper-body work. Go figure.
                            Yeah but you've already said that you always ran your best times after a period of time off or off summer base mileage, because you were always racing your workouts and running yourself into the ground. So was it the upper body weights or the fact that your legs were rested? El G doesn't look like he's been hitting the bench press too hard: I think the role of choices is being overplayed a bit and the role of genetics underplayed. Jeff could never play offensive line for Vandy and no Vandy offensive lineman could ever beat Jeff in a marathon. You can chose to be fit or fat but you can't chose your body type. The Kenyan runners with their skinny calves could never be great sprinters or power lifters.

                            Runners run.

                              Yeah but you've already said that you always ran your best times after a period of time off or off summer base mileage, because you were always racing your workouts and running yourself into the ground. So was it the upper body weights or the fact that your legs were rested? You can chose to be fit or fat but you can't chose your body type. The Kenyan runners with their skinny calves could never be great sprinters or power lifters.
                              Good point, Mike. El G definitely doesn't look like he's been hitting the weight room, and he's a bit faster than I am Tongue. I do think that being well rested had something to do with my peaking at that point. One thing's for sure--the four solid years of 60-80 miles per week had much more to do with my PR than the pull-ups. Plus, I hurt my back doing all that stuff. JK just got me riled up with his pull-ups remark. There's pretty much one way to improving as a runner--running. On the other hand, all of my college programs incorporated some sort of weight training (and pool work) into our schedules at least twice a week. To add one more thing: I do think that it's important to build rest into your schedule. Maybe not time off, but perhaps 3-6 weeks of reduced mileage and intensity. As always, the effectiveness of rest, and how long to take off, will vary person to person according to her running history--but recovery is an essential component of training.


                              Needs more cowbell!

                                Even if I tried I couldn't have twig calves. I have muscle there whether I exercise or not. Don't you think that the elite body type (twig calves) is just a genetic thing? I run just as much as my friend. I build muscle from running and she doesn't.
                                Hello, my fellow mesomorph. My MIL is an ectomorph and could lift twice as much weight with 2x the reps I do and still not have the muscle tone I have. My bones are thicker than her muscle and bones combined and she's almost a half foot taller than I am. She is also over 60, has never struggled with her weight (5'8" and whines about hitting 140#s--I'd kill to have her "problems") and still runs an easy run faster than most of my tempo runs. But in a short distance I'm certain I could smoke her. That's genetics for ya'.

                                Kirsten - aka "Auntie Kirsten"

                                '14 Goals:

                                • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                                • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

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