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My longest run (Read 1388 times)


Slow-smooth-fast

    I set out today with the pure intention of not mileage but time on my feet, this is what counts I have read in so many places. I did a massive loop and ended back at my house in 2:54 and I had covered a whopping 20miles. I stayed under MAF all the way too! How often should I do a run this long, with the pure intention of base building. You may think I am planning to do a marathon, but no I'm not. I love the 10k. But I have read in Maffetones book and various others, that building the miles is what counts for any race distance. The thing is I have had 4 weeks holiday, and so I have been able to crank up the mileage, though after xmas this will not be the case, so I will have to cut back. Will this all be detrimental? My ultimate goal is to build a good base, then work on tempo, speed etc, with the ultimate goal of getting under 40 for the 10K. Any advice welcome. Smile PS, my feet are killing me. Smile Smile

    "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

    Scout7


    CPT Curmudgeon

      You're going to get a number of differing opinions on this. How often you run 20 milers like that depends on a number of factors, from your body and ability to handle the mileage, to time available, to any number of other things. The cutback in miles will have some effect. What that effect ends up being is hard to tell. It depends on what you do during that time, when your key races are, etc. etc. etc. No real good answer to give you, unfortunately. I will say that if you're going to cut back on the mileage anyway, you can increase the intensity. Start throwing in some harder runs.


      Slow-smooth-fast

        No real good answer to give you, unfortunately. I will say that if you're going to cut back on the mileage anyway, you can increase the intensity. Start throwing in some harder runs.
        I will do this when I am finished with my base building period.

        "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009


        Dave

          I've read that exercising beyond about 90 minutes in duration has limited marginal aerobic benefit over the 90 minute distance. It will build your soft tissue (joints, tendons, etc.) for longer distances but will not give you that much past the 90 minute mark. I wouldn't do 20 more often than about every 4 weeks. No real rationale other than the recovery time that comes with it (sore feet, joints). The basic rule of thumb I was told was that your long run shouldn't exceed more than about 1/3 of your weekly mileage. You've been cranking some great mileage and should be able to go for an easy 15 pretty regularly but I doubt you'll see a huge benefit beyond that point. What a great run though. Well done!! Big grin I'd be willing to bet you'd be super at the 10-13 mile distance.
          I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

          dgb2n@yahoo.com
            Doing a 2 hour run one day and a 1:30 run another day should be sufficient each week for your goals. As race season approaches, you just add a bit of quality running within those two longer runs with all the other days being easy.

            Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

            TheProFromDover


            TheProFromDover

              I'll add my vote to not a lot to gain if your training for 10k. 12 to 15 is plenty. The 20 will actually require some recovery, it helps with fueling for the M, and builds endurance for the M, but if you peaking it would cut into strength, speed, and tempo work which has more value. A higher weekly average is a good thing, clearly the best 5k 10k guys put in tons of mileage, but you'd have to look long and hard to find some of them doing 20M. CRaig
              -Craig ced53 at yahoo dot com
                You're gonna kill in the 10k come spring, Eddy. Keep up the good work. The occasional 20 miler is a good workout, just don't become a slave to it. Once in a while is fine. Cutting back the mileage after the holidays will not be as good as if you didn't but it's part of life, right? Fit in what you can, that's all any of us can do.

                Runners run.

                  I love distance, but you don't really need any 20 milers if you're training for a 10k. If you really want to do them, just make sure you're recovering quickly enough that you're not compromising other essential training runs. I'm no elite and i'm not all that familiar w/ their 10k training plans, but i know you don't need 60+ miles a week to run a sub 40 10K. Tempo runs, track workouts, 10-13mi long runs, and some recovery runs should do the trick. My two cents.. good luck


                  My Hero

                    Not to underestimate the benefit of the "long" run even for those that race much shorter distances... At first, Peter Snell had a hard time understanding why his coach, Arthur Lydiard had him run hilly 22 milers on a regular basis being an 800 and 1500 meter runner! It was after Snell had won both the 800 and the 1500 gold medals in the Tokyo Games in 1964, did he have to say the following... "It was a total shock because I had done almost no fast training leading up to that race," Snell recalls. "I spent most of the winter running slow workouts. I even ran a marathon in about 2:30 as part of my practice! After the marathon, I went to the track, added some speed training, and boom: world record. I couldn't believe at the time you could learn to run fast by running slow."
                      Thread-jack For some reason the Toronto airport had the UK edition of runner's wold. Who do I see featured? Very cool to see a RA face. Congrats Paul!


                      Slow-smooth-fast

                        Thread-jack For some reason the Toronto airport had the UK edition of runner's wold. Who do I see featured? Very cool to see a RA face. Congrats Paul!
                        thats me, thanks for that. Despite all been said I am going out tommorrow for at least a 15miler.

                        "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

                          Well, I guess I’m one of many “Cool Running refuges”??? Quite a few people have mentioned about this site. And, as some of you already sort of know, I try to respond to anything related to Lydiard. I didn’t want to bring up old threads that was written some 12 months ago so I picked this more recent one! ;o) The thing about long runs with Snell is that he accepted the pep-talk of Lydiard that, “If you can run 22 miles (and mind you, this one has a 3-mile long uphill!) and feel as though you can do it again, you’ll be ready for anyone in the world.” Have you had a run, you going for 1:30 or 2-hours or whatever and you feel absolutely strong and almost invincible? That’s “strength” you’ll gain from doing long runs. I don’t mean to be knit-picking but it wasn’t so much of Tokyo Olympics—for Tokyo, Snell had pretty much near perfect preparation, including 9 weeks of solid track schedule. It was like everything went perfectly (except when he hurt his leg and took something like 6 days off). The one Pegasus was talking about is when he set 3 world records in 2 weeks in 1963. He had good build-up and, yes, he ran a marathon (in 2:41) that sort of actually cut his hill training phase a bit short. Interestingly, that’s his stuff now that “it didn’t really matter what you do for track workouts as long as you have developed good solid aerobic base.” That’s pretty much what happened; he had a good build-up and I think his “peak” came rather quickly. But that’s also why he felt; “What if I actually completed a full 10-week track schedule?” That’s sort of what happened for his preparation for Tokyo. Another big thing with Snell, in terms of long runs, is that he had a research done that, when you go for a long run and deplete glycogen in your slow twitch fibers, after about 1:30 or so, you’ll start to tap into fast twitch fibers and, therefore, according to Dr. Snell, that you “won’t be slow by going for a long run”. However, according to him, if the pace is so slow that it doesn’t use glycogen to burn, in other words, you’ll be using primarily fat for fuel, you won’t get into fast twitch fibers (I have his graph to show if anybody’s interested). Now, what long runs would do also is to develop muscular endurance—capillaries and mitochondria (size and the number—Greg McMillan put together an excellent DVD with Jack Daniels and in it he said the development of mitochondria depends on the duration of the exercise regardless of the intensity). Those long runs of 3 hours or so would be great for such development, as well as psychological benefit. However, you may want to be careful not to develop too much “muscle viscosity”—in other words, there IS such thing as running too much. To counter, you should try to run as much hilly courses as possible and also not to do too many of those beyond-2-hour runs. Especially, if you’re shooting for 10k races, you should consider doing 1:30~2:00 runs faster (aerobically). Even if you’re trying to follow MAF program, you should be able to continue running faster within the same HR as you get fitter.


                          My Hero

                            Nobby- Thanks for filling in all the details. When I had initially read this post, I had remembered Hal Higdon had mentioned in one of his book, this story about Peter Snell. Not to take away from this thread, but I would sure like to hear more about "muscle viscosity" you brought up. Would you mind starting a new thread on this subject?


                            Hawt and sexy

                              Thank you Nobbv. I am glad you made it here.

                              I'm touching your pants.

                                Thank you Nobbv. I am glad you made it here.
                                Ditto. Nobby, I would like to see Dr.Snell's graph, if it is possible. Thanks. Oguz.
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