Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
dwave - Nice new avatar. I like how it is A Moose Mug, not THE Moose Mug. Good luck with the short racing. I think you are right about elites skewing the age grading, particularly as it is based solely on world records.Yay, DOOMED is a thing again. FB - I've run near some edges in my time, but yikes!Keen - I recently (a week ago) returned to using flats, Nice, huh? Brew - I step on the scale every day, after run and breakfast. I get a sense of how much variation there is and where's it's trending. Eating? I'll happily chow down some oatmeal before a long run, but eating before a hard workout needs more time. Rovatti - Well thank you. I'm pretty sure the 81% I ran at CIM '16 was the only 80+ I have ever managed at any distance. Ilana has scored higher, I think. I ran a mile race last week. My previous effort this year at that distance was poor - 6:17 on a flat course (it did have lotsa corners though). Since this was a point-to-point with some downhill in it I figured I would be pleased with sub-6:05 and stoked with sub-6. Pacing was not that good. I went out pretty hard, mainly because the people I usually measure myself against went out even harder. Hey guys, it's a mile not a quarter! So I let them go and went past the quarter clock in 1:28, so not so bad. I sagged a bit in the third quarter, but managed to hammer the last part. At first I thought it was sub-6, but the finish line clock was not properly synced. Chip time was 6:00.4. Oh well. I was wearing a pair of NB 1400s that I had brought the day before. Nice shoes. Did a Daniels tempo on the track yesterday. This has some advantages: The split times are real, not some Garmin-fudged pace, and my water bottle is right there during the rest intervals. 40m warmup (clockwise), then 3x (2 miles T, 2min rest), 2 x (1 mile T, 1 min rest), 1 mile cooldown. Urgh!
Well it's fire season again, We are currently downwind of some of them, but strangely the air quality seems OK so far apart from falling ash. It must be a high-level wind thing
Speaking a Brew and Belgians -- go Red Devils.
I watched that one on the elliptical today.... got my HR about 10bmp higher!
Mother of Cats
Did a Daniels tempo on the track yesterday. This has some advantages: The split times are real, not some Garmin-fudged pace, and my water bottle is right there during the rest intervals. 40m warmup (clockwise), then 3x (2 miles T, 2min rest), 2 x (1 mile T, 1 min rest), 1 mile cooldown. Urgh!
That reads really brutal. I've done some long workouts on the track, but not quite that long. Also brutal for a total of 8 miles of tempo with 7 minutes of rest interspersed.
I always find the 3rd quarter of a mile race to be the hardest. Especially when on the track. It's a bit easier on the road.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Cobra Commander Keen
Brew - Thanks! I took headed back home with DD2 early Sunday morning for a birthday party, but there was a little Canada Day celebration in honor of the Canadians. Awesome that your busy weekend went well, and that your training is producing results. Those runs in the heat of the day must be tough, too. Congrats on the mileage PR!Lumo run - If you're braking at faster paces, maybe (definitely a maybe) you could be overstriding a bit, which can lead to that. Overstriding also can lead to higher vertical oscillation, though that can also vary for several reasons, and typically is higher number for taller people compared to shorter people. These are just generalizations and may/may not apply to you. I'm quite interested in the Lumo, though, and am curious about how you do with it.
OMR - I'm a fan of Stryd. It's not perfect, but does seem to be very consistent and really helps with pacing, and really shines when going up hills. And it's scary accurate for distance as well (~.5% off legit measured distances in my anecdotal experience).
FB - Thanks! My marathon PR will be falling on Nov. 17th. It will be ~1.5 years then since my last marathon. I had a good HM cycle this spring, don't see any reason why my upcoming one won't be good either, so I'm looking to knock off a good 12+ minutes from my PR.
Oregon - "Stuck" at 75% AG - geez you're fast. I'm working just to break 70%! Your morning weather is just about perfect in my mind.
DWave - Thanks for the moose mug/AG breakdown. If the "7 years of improvement" theory I've heard holds true that puts my "best" running years right in the sweet spot.
Dad - MI that high sure sounds like TM territory to me, too.
Jim - Flats are very nice! I didn't wear them for my 5k Saturday, but certainly will on Wednesday. Good job on the race, sooo close!First: That's a killer T workout! Second: How do you keep track of exact mile splits on a 400m track? And I'm guessing you use lane 1 the whole time? I've been doing T workouts using lane 8 myself and just use GPS for distance. Certainly open to a better way of doing things.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Lumo run - If you're braking at faster paces, maybe (definitely a maybe) you could be overstriding a bit, which can lead to that. Overstriding also can lead to higher vertical oscillation, though that can also vary for several reasons, and typically is higher number for taller people compared to shorter people. These are just generalizations and may/may not apply to you. I'm quite interested in the Lumo, though, and am curious about how you do with it.
Gah - checked out Lumo run. Only works with Iphone. And...if I understand correctly, a lot of the metrics don't work unless you carry your phone. So that's a deal killer.
Rovatti - ... I'm pretty sure the 81% I ran at CIM '16 was the only 80+ I have ever managed...
...and fb ran a marathon WELL OVER AG%=80 when he was 53ish?... (he can correct me, if I'm wrong...)
You both should be drinkin' from a mug IMO! I've got to have a word with rbbmoose about age discrimination!
(ETA: and OMR was probably close at one point???)
Jim - That's a brutal tempo workout. I have the baby version on Wednesday, 2x2 miles and 1x1 mile. But I expect it to be plenty tough. And nice mile race! Those wildfires made the air look funny yesterday, and I see today that the air quality is good down by the bay so I'm hoping it stays that way.
DW - Can you add another race to the race calendar? Summer Breeze Half Marathon, August 4, goal of 1:32:56. And I might as well set sub-90 as a goal for my September race...
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Resident Millennial
crazy few weeks of travel. just popping in to say hi!
jim- nice mile you banged out! (see what i did there...)
flew back from LA this morning (second wedding of the summer, this is mid-late 20s I suppose...) and as we descended, the usual fog showed up and looked all pretty and cotton ball-y from above. then we get into the layer, and it's a grey/yellow layer of ash suspended above the fog, and once we got below the fog, the sky was an apocalyptic flat grey color. but air quality is fine and it doesn't smell like fire. i think our beloved fog is protecting us from the layer of ash above.
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
Flats -- what constitutes a real flat? Is it weight and flatness? Which shoe are people buying?
Jim -- that mile sounds both fast and awful/painful. As a committed base-building, wtf-er, I know there has to be some quality in my future this fall -- at least if if I'm going to have a hope of pushing my marathon time back down. But man those workouts sound hard.
Brew, DW, CK -- I took a look at Lumo and it's interesting. It's $79 on Amazon, and they say you can run without your phone to do post-run analysis (rather than the app heckling you while you run). If I'm doing something seriously wrong that is costing me time and beating up my legs and joints, that would be a small price to pay. Brew -- do you feel as though you can make the changes that it recommends and that those change are helping you improve (form, efficiency, something else)? Thanks.
I really like these things; they stretch out your toes and tendons, and keep feet problems from cropping up. That, and it's easier to paint your nails (at least the ones that haven't fallen off yet). I just killed by second pair and ordered more.
Oregon -- we're in Italy, so it's not like the heat is a big surprise. It was really bad last summer, but I was running a lot shorter and slower.
rlk, Jim -- sorry about another fire season and sh!t air quality. The problem doesn't seem to be going away. :-(
Go England! Right Jim?
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
Problem Child
Brew -Lumo run - If you're braking at faster paces, maybe (definitely a maybe) you could be overstriding a bit, which can lead to that. Overstriding also can lead to higher vertical oscillation, though that can also vary for several reasons, and typically is higher number for taller people compared to shorter people. These are just generalizations and may/may not apply to you. I'm quite interested in the Lumo, though, and am curious about how you do with it.
I didn't think of over striding. I use to heel strike but looking at my shoes (reading tea leaves) I don't seem to tear the heel out anymore BUT it doesn't mean I'm not over striding. Today's run was damn near perfect. 180-183 cadence, 1.01 braking (1.31 or less goal). 12 degree drop (12 or less goal) and 14 degree rotation (15 degree or less goal) for the hips. Bounce (vertical oscillation) was 3.75. I haven't figured out how to get this down even with focusing on the horizon and trying to keep it flat. I've tried taking longer strides, shorter strides, trying to kick off my toe more, maybe bringing up my trailing foot higher or whatever else I can think of. The goal is 3.35. The lowest I've ever seen is 3.4 and apparently I felt it in the quads more than usual so I'll probably try going back to longer strides...which drops my cadence but 178 is fine.
Side note: how did you pick your flats, why flats, and would you run a marathon in them? I've never worn them. I've done the minimalist (Brooks) thing for a while but in my head a racing flat is practically no shoe at all. Almost like "I'm an elite runner" status where the few ounces you save is HUGE for performance.
LuumoRun It works without your phone. It syncs with the GPS data from my Garmin. Kind of a process but the LumoRun syncs itself first and shows you 5 minute intervals. 5ish (I've never tracked) minutes later it matches up the GPS data. The downside is it only does full miles. If you did intervals it won't record each lap. I don't like this feature as I'd like to know how I ran a 1,000m repeat not how I ran fast for 5/8 (guess) of a mile then jogged and how that combines to tell me what I averaged for the mile. I wish they would fix this to be able to sync with the laps from my GPS watch since they're loading the run and know where each mile was. I don't think I've taken my phone with me using the app. Looking at it the "coaching" will tell you pace, distance and time of the run...which literally helps me nothing. If it told me my bounce, braking, or hip rotation each 1-5 minutes or half mile (the selectable settings) it might help to have the live coaching...unless this "posture reminders" is what that does. I'll look into this more. I don't think it's HURTING my form. I think it's giving me more to look at in an easy way to understand. It also offers "workouts" to do before runs. Mine are obviously focused on bounce so it's stuff like ceiling runs, skooting skips, stable horizons or frog hops. I've done them before runs and come back with less than ideal results. Oh and the advice I can give you is to get their emails. They sent me a sale offer shortly after signing up for some holiday. I posted it in the Gears forum (I think it was Father's Day) and it was something like 20% off.
rlk Yes multiple weddings in a year is a thing in the mid to late 20s. I went to 3 (I was in one) the summer before I got married. The only thing I could offer as advice is take notes (literally) of what you like and don't like (seating, presentation, food service, DJ, time, venue, sweetheart table, wedding party etc.) It helped DW and I eliminate a LOT of things we didn't like AND got some good ideas. One had only family members in the wedding part (unbalanced) while another had something like 7 or 8 on each side. The air quality is starting to suck here. Damn Californians already invade the State driving up housing costs now they're ruining our air. Can't you keep your smoke and fire controlled? Hopefully they get control of them and put them out soon. I heard the Yolo one is burning 12 football fields a minute or something crazy like that.
age % Yeah...my age percent is probably close to some of my grades in high school and college...Somewhere in the 65-68%. A 2:44 marathon is where I'd need to be and that isn't even a moose mug.
Jim as others have said...damn that workout looks rough. I already hate the 3T, 2T, 1T workout (I puked) and the 2 x (2T, 2 min) wasn't too bad but the last 2T Sunday was hard. I might also need to wait longer before doing a hard workout. I'm planning Wednesday's to be in the morning, probably before breakfast. You have any marathons planned? CIM? Any word on the Olympic training partner? I thought she got slightly injured last year but might have been on track to make a comeback?
Dipped into a morning run (63F) after being up late (10pm) and made it an "easy" 5. I wanted to go back to sleep. I don't know how I judged pace, and I thought about doing 6.5 but I figured having started about 8 minutes late I'd just finish at 5, shower and spend that extra 8 minutes making breakfast for the wife or dealing with NeRP if/when he wakes up. I think it helped mentally to cut the easy run when I was "done" with it mentally and not "coach" myself into not quitting. The whole point of the run was to reduce the number of miles I need to run while on vacation. 1.5 miles spread over 3 days isn't exactly a HUGE difference when each run would be about an hour either way. Doubles may not be my favorite currently BUT the day off/short day is nice to have open. If only I could get myself out there TWICE a week. If I get about 6.5 I have 14.6 to do. If I do 8 it's 12. So I save myself probably 10 minutes. eh.
EDIT: I know we have a few DC people here. Everyone okay? Everyone you KNOW okay? Crazy sh*t going down.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
I'm the closest of us all to DC. Checking in to say I'm not sure what you're referring to. Just turned on the local news, and still have no idea.
We had a shooting in Annapolis a few days ago - that's about an hour away.
Pace Prophet
Rovatti - Well thank you. I'm pretty sure the 81% I ran at CIM '16 was the only 80+ I have ever managed at any distance. Ilana has scored higher, I think.
Nope, I've never cracked 80%. 79.92% for my 1:35:55 half was my best. CIM was 78.57%.
Brew - 4/5 of those goals is pretty darn good in my book. Flats - I went with the Altra Vanish-R (in PINK, because they were $20 cheaper!) largely because I'm already very familiar with Altras, having run my last year and 2,400+ miles in them. The complete pair of flats weigh less than just one of my everyday trainer (Escalante), which is a pretty remarkable feeling when going straight from trainers in a warm-up to the flats for the workout. I figured less weight swinging at the end of my legs = free speed/time off a race, so long as I can handle the relative lack of cushion. I largely picked this specific pair because I'm already familiar with the company/zero drop and had read plenty of reviews. About the only negative thing I read was about a tight fit, though mostly seeming to come from people who didn't realize they come with two insoles inserted from the factory, but are meant to only use one. Figured it was worth a shot. Right now I'd wear them for workouts and 5k's (probably just 5k's, though), and once I have some more experience with them perhaps a 10k. I'd want at least that distance in them before thinking about moving up to a HM. I'd probably want more cushion for a M, though.
Politics or the insane heat/humidity? The latter has kept me on TM.
fb ~ I'm a big fan of yoga toes (DLS introduced them to me) for the stretching; can't speak to the nail painting!
Jim: That's a speedy mile and a killer workout!
rovatti: No, my marathon PR was less than 77% AG, so not even close.
Brew: Does your vertical oscillation drop when you run faster? Based on a sample size of one - yesterday's run with a few strides thrown in - my v.o. goes down by about 0.25 on the strides. Not sure if that's a good thing or not.
Keen: So, targeting a sub-3:05 then?