Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Brew: Those workouts sound brutal and in the middle of summer surely doesn't make it easier.
Ali: Nice week!
Got back on track this week and really enjoyed Saturday's long run. Total of 15 miles with 2300' gain. 10 of the miles were on trails in Great Smoky Mountain National Park. Last 2 were at goal MP or better (6:53, 6:35). The shade was wonderful, then sitting in the mountain stream for 20 minutes afterward was a good way to finish.
Tuesday's 4x1600 was the closest I've come to vomiting during a workout in a long time. It was really humid and I was actually slower than planned, but it was tough. Roughly 90 second rest. (6:15, 6:09, 6:08, 6:18)
Mon Jul 09
6.09
8:05
Home again, home again
Tue Jul 10
2.01
8:41
Wake up and warmup
4.30
7:01
4x1600 w/ 100-150 jog rest
8:49
Cooldown
Thu Jul 12
6.54
8:34
2.4 up, 12x200 hills, 1.5 down
Fri Jul 13
8.02
8:07
Easy 8
Sat Jul 14
6.88
9:37
Long Run Part 1 (1500 ft gain)
8.04
8:38
Long Run Part 2 with 2 miles at GMP or Faster
43.89
8:28
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
Mother of Cats
DW: I'm curious how you are able to do your cool downs and easy runs at such an easy pace. I have a hard time running much over 9:10, though clearly I need to (I should be recovering more slowly than you do). Is it something you work on?
Practice. . I think of it as another type of drill - running at a very low effort while retaining good form.
[also helps that I'm out of shape right now ]
Brewing - Refresh me - is the MP you are using based on your current fitness? Or your goal MP? I understand Daniels can fry you if you make the mistake of not doing it at current fitness. I think that for you, that risk is elevated, since you're training at altitude.
Alistair - I'm not sure if 2 bad achilles is better or worse than 1...At least you're balanced this way.
[edited to add] Ace - solid week, especially that mile workout. What's your goal MP? Sub-3? or faster?
I raced last night. Did a road mile in 5:52 for a new personal worst for the distance and second place in the women's masters heat. The course is not the fastest, but most of the time can be explained by lack of fitness. Which I knew going in, so I'm not too upset. If you've done 6 months of marathon training and then taken a post-race break, two weeks of hill workouts will not refresh your miler skillz - shocking.
Since I'm a glutton for punishment, I jumped into the open heat as well an hour later. 5:53 for 3rd woman (and another personal worst). Again, marathoner, not miler. Time to fix that.
Race report is here.
And....my week: 34 miles running, 16 "miles" pool-running.
M: yoga and 8 "miles" pool-running.T: 9 very easy (9:16) plus drills and strides, then upper body weights/core.W: 10 miles including Iwo Jima Hills. Also injury prevention work and recovery swimming.Th: upper body weights/core and 8 "miles" pool-running.F: 8 miles very easy (9:28) plus drills and strides. Later did another mile to test out some shoes. Also DIY yoga at home.Sa: DIY yoga in the morning; 3 mile warm-up then a road mile in 5:52. Jog another mile, and then race another mile an hour later in 5:53.Su: Yoga and swimming.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Problem Child
Dw: it’s based on my 10K result with a VDOT of 48.8 (rounded up to 49 then bumped to 50 like the book says...unless I read that wrong). Training according to his book says to up it a little. I don’t think dropping it to 7:20/mi would have made MUCH difference. I think it was breakfast and possibly having zero fuel for 14 (goal) miles of marathon pace. You may be correct about altitude playing an effect but I really expected to be able to finish this today. Especially after Wednesday (feeling accomplished).
Your mile times are impressive. There is a local mile race starting this year. I’m tempted to run it but after reading here a few times it’s a different beast.
random dream I had: I’m at Chicago right before the race, I see my wife’s coming worked (not a runner but an active persons n) and ask if she is running the half. I The realize I never went to the expo and don’t have a pace band. This is BEFORE my workout today which I’m still trying to make sense of.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
dw: If training goes as planned, I’ll shoot for sub 3:00 in Indy. So any MP activity I’ll shoot for around 6:50. This 2 mile pickup said GMP or faster, so I picked up the last mile. Pretty happy with it considering I didn’t know I’d worked through 2000+ feet of gain by that point.
I raced last Friday night. Did a road track mile in 5:52 5:51.9 for a new personal worst for the distance and second place DFL in the women's masters my heat. The course is not the fastest, but most of the time can't be explained by lack of fitness.
Fixed your post! I hadn't raced in 11 weeks, so it was time for a rust buster. Ugh. Whatever rigor mortis had set in after my hill workout Tuesday still lingered and I struggled from the first 100m. I knew I didn't have much/any speed reserve, so knew I wouldn't be sharp, but not to this degree.
While my general fatigue isn't bad at all, my specific fatigue -- it feels like muscle failure when doing strength work -- is definitely on edge. Attempted workout on Sunday and did 3x1K at the same pace I ran my fourth (!) mile of my tempo run last weekend (6:15); my fourth repeat was even slower!!! Then I bailed.
So, all easy running for me this week, b/c I'm scheduled to do 3000m in the DCRRC track championships Saturday.
My week:
M) 6 (and a doubleheader w/ my sons!)
Tu) 10 w/ 3x (2', 1' and 30") hill repeats 5K-3K effort
W) 5 easy
Th) 4.5 w/ 4 strides
F) 7 w/ mile
Sa) 4.5 & ElliptiGo 45'
Su) 9 w/ 4x1K w/ 2' rec
Total: 46 + '5' on the Go
dw I thought about the altitude difference between races however if my 10K race pace is a 6:47/mi would altitude matter for marathon pacing? Some fancy spreadsheet I pulled from the sub 1:30 HM thread puts me at a 3:14 (7:24/mi) and a 50 minute tempo is 7:17/mi (6.9 miles) so I may have been aggressive with the workout Sunday, I may have let myself quit early because it got uncomfortable and I got scared of throwing up, I may have needed fuel (race day I do 45 minutes), or it may have been a combination of things I could and couldn't control. It's either that or the "weight adjusted" VDOT from this spreadsheet telling me I'm a 50.8 is wrong and I need to focus on 3:14 pace and pull out the goal on race day.
Two (shitty) workouts. I bailed on Sunday because my stomach didn't feel up for it but I was on pace. I didn't think I'd be able to finish a full 6 miles at 7:17/mi (aggressive pace?), but looking back the next two miles are USUALLY the fastest two miles of the loop in previous training. I feel stupid for not trying to go for it and convincing myself "11 miles at 'MP' is a lot and more than last marathon training" so it was smarter to stop. I let my Wednesday workout mentality go away and I'm ALMOST starting to doubt my training, fitness, goals, blah blah blah, spiraling into a hole while staying with the training plan. I still haven't practiced eating at Marathon pace but I carried a 26 oz UD water bottle for the run. Almost finished the whole thing by the end of it too. It was bout 83-85F when I finished and about 73 when I started.
This week is going to SUCK. 70 miles for the first time (peak mileage) and 100+ in the forecast for M-F (but it's a DRY HEAT ). Fly to Boise Friday night and fly back Sunday. Wednesday's workout is a copy of the one below with 2 minute rests between 2T and an extra 1T. I could probably get a fair amount of it done Wednesday morning (70F probably) before work, or I could cut it out (bold workout), but I don't think it would be smart to cutout threshold/tempo work. I've noticed my heart rate for easy runs is VERY low (130-140 instead of 150s) according to my watch. This isn't helping me with my threshold or marathon paced heart rate though.
Weekly Summary (goal of 56 miles)Monday, Jul 09, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 15, 2018
Cobra Commander Keen
Alistair - Good week.
Brew - Substantial water loss during that run! That makes me curious as to how much I'm losing on these runs. Don't let that Wednesday workout attitude get away!There's still plenty of time to practice with nutrition during your runs, especially if you aren't considering switching to a new fuel. Some calories might could help on those M pace runs, too.Did you take NeRP with you for the super-early run?
Ace - Nice week coming back! Speedy plans for Indy, too.
DWave - Sounds like you were sucessful in shedding that "excess" fitness! Still, seems like pretty solid results compared to the field. You (and most others) seem to have many more races (and race distances) to choose from than are typically available in my AO.
Not much of a week for me last week, but marathon training formally started today!It was pretty darn hot (80F/26) and humid when I started my LR Saturday. I foolishly thought I'd try getting in a few M effort miles towards the end of that and ditched that idea after 2 miles. The conditions just got to me and my stomach started to turn - plus at M effort/pace my HR was above LT levels . Took it easier the rest of the way back. I saw a bunch of the local super-fast guys running around the lake - including the guy who won his debut marathon this spring (~2:30, going for the win and not for time).
Weekly SummaryMonday, Jul 09, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 15, 2018
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Speed Surplus
Only going back a page and a half right now...
DW - You may not be pleased with 5:52 and 5:53, but it's impressive that you only slowed one second between the two. I'm also trying to get more into "miler" shape after all this marathon training.
Brew - That workout with all the MP in the heat sounds brutal. And cutting out beer? Even more brutal! I hope it all pays off for you.
Dad - @ the FYP.
Keen - Interesting week. Two runs over HM length and nothing else? Still more miles than I'm running lately.
My week - still not really worth posting, but I'll do it anyway. Yesterday's track "workout" was 2x400, 2x200, which is the same as I did the other week. It's hot and I'm out of shape, so it's about all I can handle, but I'm trying to activate some of the speed I once had. Splits this time were 76, 74, 34.5, 35.5 ish. LOL
5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12
Awesome week BR. Do you add any cross training in your plan?
Weekly Summary (goal of 56 miles)Monday, Jul 09, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 15, 2018 Day Miles Pace Description Link Tue 7.0 8:04 That time it was me and the cement trucks strava Wed 12.2 7:42 That time winners never quit. strava Thu 5.0 8:21 That time the worm almost got us. strava Thu 4.5 9:05 That time I made a baseball trade strava Fri 6.6 8:25 That time I’ll show you mine if you show me yours. strava Sat 6.5 8:18 That time we count nap time in miles. strava Sun 14.0 7:55 That time I got a taste of how the elites feel. strava
no time really. I could possibly do it on days I do easy running/junk miles but I'd have to do it at home which is another 30+ minutes of training (less family time or sleep) and I think it would hurt performance more than help it at this point. I don't know if I'd do better with less miles and TRX workouts compared to running 56-70 mpw. I decided for more miles because it worked last time to PR.
keen I took him out Sunday but not this morning. He coughed and fell back asleep. I couldn't fall back asleep (kinda glad) so I got out the door earlier. I POSSIBLY could have done 10 this morning but getting home around 5:30 might have been a bad idea. He apparently woke up at 5:50 and I helped out with dad duties. Trying not to let the Wednesday attitude get away from me. To quite some music "I quit quitting the very next day" and I just need to get away from that. I guess I didn't think about how much water I burned through. I'd say 20-24 ounces total. Oh and M pace SUCKS right now. AT least you're getting the similar SHEET weather for training. Your speed is still impressive. Youre 5K and HM times support an EASY BQ. #JEALOUS
ace I can tell you they aren't enjoyable. Good luck on the sub 3 effort too. That's some SERIOUS speed but I think you have it as long as you can avoid injury.
sc yeah...beer is awesome but there is beer to drink after to celebrate. I'm saying I need to do everything I can think of to help running. If Saturday's beers affected Sunday's running it's got to go. I'll replace it with ice cream and Gatorade like always...for almost 3 months.
"sc yeah...beer is awesome but there is beer to drink after to celebrate. I'm saying I need to do everything I can think of to help running. If Saturday's beers affected Sunday's running it's got to go. I'll replace it with ice cream and Gatorade like always...for almost 3 months."
For sure. I just know that it takes real dedication for a beer lover to give up beer, so kudos!
When I got sick the week before my race it was kind of a blessing, because it forced me to extreme taper and also basically not drink beer (a few nights I had 1), which led to a race weight of around 164-165, my leanest in months.
sc yeah... and also basically not drink beer (a few nights I had 1), which led to a race weight of around 164-165, my leanest in months.
161-163 lbs. Race weight for my 10K on Mothers Day was about 175 (closest weight to race day I have) so running more has helped. My BIL commented Saturday morning "yeah you REALLY love beer. You'd be 300 lbs if you didn't run as much as you do." after I had 7 Friday night.
Resident Millennial
I had 7 Friday night.
x 10 is a normal-sized human being (not talking about cliz...) supposed to be able to consume that many without blacking out or inducing immediate liver failure?!
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
I can (and have) done that over the course of around 5 hours plenty of times. Not good for the old race weight, of course...
On the other hand, if I were to drink 3 in an hour, I'd be blotto.
SUPPOSED to? Probably not. Is it possible? Absolutely. If it is Coors Light/805 (sub 5% beers) it's pretty easy. If you're talking about any 7.2% IPA I'd say it's possible it might just come down to how you handle the next morning. Some people can power through it like the day after racing a marathon. Other people need the entire day to sit on the couch to "recover" from the night (day) before.
Interestingly enough, my HDH is usually above 60, LDL is usually above 100, triglycerides 70-80. Total Cholesterol...over 200. I've never been able to test myself before and after an "extended" period of no alcohol.