Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Pace Prophet
rlk - I'm with you in my at the idea of drinking seven beers in an evening. Then again those guys outweigh us by a lot.
Brew - not sure ice cream is all that much better for you than beer...
Dwave and Dad - congratulations on your PWs! I guess all the cool marathoning kids are doing miles now.
Ace - as I said on Strava, looks like you had an amazing place for some training. Sitting in a mountain stream after a hard hot run or race is exquisite.
SC - Extreme Taper is magic!
Alistair - I hope you can solve your achilles issues. Your paces don't seem to vary that much. What are your recent (before all that time off) race times?
Altitude - It seems to me that living at altitude (I'm at 6600') doesn't really help for either the 5k (I don't have the high gear I'd need for more speed) or for the marathon (it's all about endurance, and running too fast will still give me leg cramps), though I do feel that for those races it's more aerobically comfortable at lower elevations for me. (I think that for the 10k-half distance it helps a lot, though.) But I don't know - Brew certainly blew away my expectations of what he could do.
My week was pretty good, especially since the rains have tamped down the fires and it's no longer smoky in the mornings. I got in 40 miles of running and about 16 of mtb, with hill sprints, strides, a 2x2 mile tempo, and a 12.5 progression run. My paces/HR are about the same as they were last year before I injured myself, though when I was looking through my log to verify this I also noticed that I had run a half marathon in June that I'd hoped to run around 1:43 in a dismal 1:47. (My course PB for that one is 1:36, how have the mighty fallen!) But in rereading my race report (on my blog) I saw that I had analyzed this as being due to 1) a hot day, 2) being overly-optimistic about my fitness and going out too fast, 3) failing to recover from a 10M race two weeks prior, and 4) tapering poorly. At the end of my race report from that half, I wrote: Anyway, I think it comes down to this: Now that I'm an old lady, I can't just half-ass my training and still improve. I need to allow a lot of recovery after races, I need to get and keep my mileage (relatively) high, I need to be conservative with my taper, and I need to be realistic about my goals. I think it's good that I was inspired to revisit that report, because these are the things that I will need to keep in mind.
Mother of Cats
r At the end of my race report from that half, I wrote: Anyway, I think it comes down to this: Now that I'm an old lady, I can't just half-ass my training and still improve. I need to allow a lot of recovery after races, I need to get and keep my mileage (relatively) high, I need to be conservative with my taper, and I need to be realistic about my goals. I think it's good that I was inspired to revisit that report, because these are the things that I will need to keep in mind.
Words of wisdom.
I don't drink beer at all. Drinks with tiny umbrellas only.
Dad - your PW is faster than mine! I win!!!! Are you going up to Harrisburg on Wednesday? I think I'm going to go - I'm just not fit enough to justify a trip to Pittsburgh, but half the distance seems doable.
9 miles moderate today (8:06) and some upper body weights/core.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Dad and DW: Congrats on the PWs! It can only go up from here, right??
Ilana: Now that I'm an old lady, I can't just half-ass my training and still improve. Yup. I tell myself that constantly. Hopefully this time it will sink in. Nice week!
7 beers in a night would probably put me in the hospital. I think I'd rather have the equivalent in ice cream, anyway.
42ish miles last week, including a 12 mile "long" run and one workout with 5x800. Overall I'm happy with it. 6 miles this morning, and it was hot and humid even at 6:30 am. I couldn't talk myself into doing strides at the end. I think I need to start doing them during my last mile or something to make myself do them.
I couldn't talk myself into doing strides at the end. I think I need to start doing them during my last mile or something to make myself do them.
When I hit that point, I just tell myself that strides don't need to be hard, they just need to be relaxed and fun. It helps me. I think you can reap benefits from strides at marathon pace, even, if that's what you're feeling that day.
I guess I need to check in more often here... Hard to catch up with it all.
Brew - It almost seems like you might be pushing a bit too hard on your paces right now, but you would know better how things actually feel for you. The Jack Daniels paces can be a bit confusing once you start mixing in m-pace, since his m-pace is a pretty aggressive one. When you start his program, he says in his book to either go with a recent race result, preferably 10k or longer (not sure when you ran your 10k you based your times on), or to go with your goal pace and step back 2 units on your Vdot value from that pace. He then also recommends increasing your paces with 1 vdot value every 6 weeks, so the last weeks are done at goal pace. The tricky part is, since his marathon pace is pretty aggressive, this will often result in paces for the other workouts that seem slow. Also because off the aggressive m-pace, when I ordered a program from them (which I'm not using by the way, I did 2Q from the book instead), my m-pace at the start of the program ended up actually being faster than goal m-pace (I told them 3:20 was my goal). When I set up my 2Q program I based the paces on my HM in February (gave me Vdot of 48.1, higher than my marathon), but in reality I've been doing my workouts at 49.2 instead. When and if I increase my training paces I am debating whether I should increase my m-pace workouts, which so far has been run at about 7:25 pace. I get a harder (and better?) workout by increasing the pace, but more time running at my hopeful m-pace if I just keep it. Right now I have a hope I can be in shape for 3:15 in October, although my official stated goal is 3:20.
Ace - Nice week. And your trip looked very nice!
DW - Mile races kind of scare my. Never done one and I can't believe you ran two in the span of an hour! Congrats with the PW
Dad - Congrats with the PW for you too!
Arvind - How is your training going?
At some point this week I wasn't sure if I would reach my 50 miles as I took Monday off after the brutal weekend I had a week ago, and I forgot I would spend Saturday in Napa tasting wines all day with some good friends I know from work. But with some creative scheduling and a double day where I just took the dog for a couple of miles to round off the day, I just made it. I had a failed attempt at my mid-week workout on Wednesday due to an upset stomach, but tried again on Thursday and got it done. Both workouts of the week had significant tempo efforts in them (3x2 miles on Thursday, 2x2 early and then another mile at the end of yesterday's run), and I've been pretty consistent around 6:55 pace on those segments. I even posted a 6:51 mile at the end of yesterday's run without too much trouble so I think the Daniels program is slowly toughening my legs to be able to put in these "faster" efforts at the end of workouts. Next week is bringing everybody's favorite interval workout, 5x1000, so we'll see how that goes. And for me it is now 8 weeks in a row at 45 miles or more. I think my legs are slowly adapting to this...
Weekly SummaryMonday, Jul 09, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 15, 2018
<tfoot> </tfoot>
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
pie man
I, uh, might have had 7 beers Saturday. But I did stumble upon an Aussie rules game and they just appeared out of nowhere. Funny how that happens.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
Awesome week rune
I started the training a week earlier by mistake. Planned for a 18 week training. Supposed to have started it by June 4, started it on the Memorial day week.
Mileage and long runs so far
Arvind - How is your training going? Monday, Jul 09, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 15, 2018 <tfoot> </tfoot> Day Miles Pace Duration Description HR Egain Link Tue 7.6 8:25 1:04 Evening Run 136 (71%) 138 strava Wed 6.2 9:06 0:56 Abort, abort! 125 (65%) 109 strava Thu 14.0 8:07 1:53 Thursday Lake Tempo Intervals 148 (77%) 273 strava Fri 4.5 8:47 0:39 Recovery Lunch Waddling 128 (67%) 86 strava Fri 2.0 10:46 0:21 Evening Doggie Run 118 (61%) 104 strava Sun 16.5 8:29 2:20 E-T-E-T-E 144 (75%) 376 strava 50.8 8:35 7:16 1086
Monday, Jul 09, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 15, 2018
7 beers is extreme for me. Maybe every other year. (Although I think had that many when my wife and I went to Nats-Yankees mini-doubleheader last month; she wasn't pleased.) I generally have 2 or 3.
DkW ~ No. DCRRC track championships on Saturday. I hope to focus on the mile next summer ... I thought it'd be this year, but a) I didn't start w/ a good base and b) the Navy Mile -- which would've been the peak/goal race -- conflicts w/ Parents' Day at W&M (my step-sons college). Similarly, the Fredericksburg Mile conflicted w/ my granddaughter's birthday party. (These people really need to do a better job of coordinating w/ me!)
+1 to ilana's 'words of wisdom'
+1 to DkW's comment about value in strides at MP. Also, I sometimes use 'strides' at MP/steady/tempo to transition from w/u to speed work too.
Just recovery yoga yesterday.
Problem Child
Brew - not sure ice cream is all that much better for you than beer... Altitude - It seems to me that living at altitude (I'm at 6600') doesn't really help for either the 5k (I don't have the high gear I'd need for more speed) or for the marathon (it's all about endurance, and running too fast will still give me leg cramps), though I do feel that for those races it's more aerobically comfortable at lower elevations for me. (I think that for the 10k-half distance it helps a lot, though.) But I don't know - Brew certainly blew away my expectations of what he could do.ay, I think it comes down to this: Now that I'm an old lady, I can't just half-ass my training and still improve. I need to allow a lot of recovery after races, I need to get and keep my mileage (relatively) high, I need to be conservative with my taper, and I need to be realistic about my goals. I think it's good that I was inspired to revisit that report, because these are the things that I will need to keep in mind.
Altitude - It seems to me that living at altitude (I'm at 6600') doesn't really help for either the 5k (I don't have the high gear I'd need for more speed) or for the marathon (it's all about endurance, and running too fast will still give me leg cramps), though I do feel that for those races it's more aerobically comfortable at lower elevations for me. (I think that for the 10k-half distance it helps a lot, though.) But I don't know - Brew certainly blew away my expectations of what he could do.ay, I think it comes down to this: Now that I'm an old lady, I can't just half-ass my training and still improve. I need to allow a lot of recovery after races, I need to get and keep my mileage (relatively) high, I need to be conservative with my taper, and I need to be realistic about my goals. I think it's good that I was inspired to revisit that report, because these are the things that I will need to keep in mind.
CIM has some magical properties for me. It could have been well executed training combined with a great day to run mixed in with a little bit of youth stupidity to change the goal 5ish minutes then beat THAT goal by a few minutes that blew away expectations. If you could go ahead and help me out again I'd appreciate it.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Strict WTF adherent
These things don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Not going to try to catch up. Hello everyone.
x 10 is a normal-sized human being (not talking about cliz...) supposed to be able to consume that many without blacking out or inducing immediate liver failure?!
You mean before lunch?
Honestly, there's no reason to be scared of them. At their worst, they hurt less than the last half mile of a 5K. And if you're out of shape, then they really don't hurt too much, just because you can't run that fast....
Ha! Usually people make the opposite mistake. How are you planning on handling the additional week? Just add in a recovery week?
DkW ~ No. DCRRC track championships on Saturday. I hope to focus on the mile next summer ... I thought it'd be this year, but a) I didn't start w/ a good base and b) the Navy Mile -- which would've been the peak/goal race -- conflicts w/ Parents' Day at W&M (my step-sons college). Similarly, the Fredericksburg Mile conflicted w/ my granddaughter's birthday party. (These people really need to do a better job of coordinating w/ me!
Ah. For me, the DCRRC races conflict with a friend's birthday party, and more significantly with my reluctance to do track miles. I find road miles easier on my body (less turning, less bounce) and also more fun mentally (I hate laps).
Navy Mile is too late for me, since I'll be marathon training then.
Hi PJ, McBen. 8 "miles" pool-running and DIY yoga today.
Hm, maybe I should ask our resident mile-expert rlk when and where the next suitable mile race would be in the Bay Area. If for nothing else to have a time to my name.
Cobra Commander Keen
SClever - Yeah, definitely a weird week. My nephew got me sick so I was out Tues-Thurs, and I dropped off the kiddos off with my in-laws before work on Friday and frankly didn't want to get my run in starting at 4am.
Brew - Jason Boland reference for the win! M pace does suck (especially in the temps we're running in), but from my experience in the spring you get more used to it and it sucks less. I figure it'll help big time once the weather cools down some. I know the calculators say I can BQ now, but those are usually pretty optimistic. I just don't know that I have the endurance for that yet. Plus at race time it'll have been ~18 months since my last marathon and taking off as much time from my PR as I'd need to is pretty darn intimidating, to put it mildly.
Ilana - Still dealing with those fires? Geez. Hopefully those are all put out soon. Any hope of that happening? Nice find on the old RR.
Rune - I noticed that about the increasing (decreasing? read: getting faster) M paces. My currently listed M pace is actually :01/mi faster than the target pace at the end of my plan (weird), and that training pace ends up scary close to my last HM pace before the taper starts.
Dad - Bummer on the upset of the racing schedule, but I like the priorities.
DWave - I would have thought that mile races would hurt more (though obviously for less time) than a 5k. The more you know...
DD3 woke up just as I was about to head out the door today, and there was no getting her back to sleep (in her crib). Perfect opportunity to load her up in the stroller and head out for a run. The extra time chaning her before and unloading the stroller from the van only "cost" me a mile off what I was planning/hoping for, but things went really well and I really liked it. She just enjoyed the ride and slept for all but the first and last 10-15 minutes. Only one small fuss, which she solved herself by finding her sucker (read: pacifier). One of these days I need to run around a local lake with her, or somewhere that has sidewalks so I don't have to go in tiny circles around some little league fields, or through the abandoned school parking lots.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
They might hurt more if one was specifically focused exclusively on that distance. But I think that those of us that shift back and forth between longer stuff and miles can never get quite good enough at a mile to really hurt during one - we just can't push to that level.
It might also be that, due to my asthma, I'm very used to going anaerobic, and so it doesn't bother me.