Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Problem Child
Leave next week, day TBD. More likely to pass through Reno than Santa Rosa (80 from Wyoming at some point and across Nevada that way).
If you want to hang out or need info on Reno feel free to contact me. Most of Nevada is boring to drive through.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Cobra Commander Keen
Ilana - Great that you had a good week. I've noticed that you've been setting segment PRs and taking some top overall times as well.
E11 - !! Good to see you back, and sorry about the extended illness. When do you starting active training for Rehoboth?
Brew - Good week, and good luck on the workout tomorrow. On the up side, at 93* you shouldn't need much warmup!
The extended forecast is looking better and better. Possible storms over the weekend could mean lows in the mid/low 60's early next week!
I'm thinking of picking up a 5k at the beginning of September (wouldn't interfere with a LR with quality in it). Nice and flat, with a lolipop shaped course that should eliminate the big issue that slows down most local 5ks: running past/around everyone behind you after the turnaround. That would give me a 5k with 5 weeks until a HM, then 6 weeks until my marathon. Thoughts on how that could impact training/give me an idea of where my fitness is? This race should draw some serious talent, as well. The state records (male and female) were both set here, and there is prize money for top spots plus extra for a new state record.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Hey all!
Elizabeth -- sorry to hear you've been sick, and hope your comeback goes smoothly. I didn't realize Rehobeth had a marathon -- must be fairly flat?
Keen: How'd DD3 do on the first stroller run? Nice that she's crawling -- fun and yet nerve wracking at the same time! I don't see the problem with doing a fast 5k six weeks before your goal marathon -- recovery is pretty quick after a 5k.
Brewing: Nice week last week.
Illana: Good job on the longest run in 22 months -- that's great!
Hello everyone I missed!
Last week went pretty well, another 42ish miles, with one longer run and one speed workout. I did my speed late Saturday afternoon, since my 5k is this Saturday night, so I was trying out some things to practice. It went ok -- 5 x 1000, 3 min recovery -- but I definitely felt a little sluggish to start. Unfortunately it's supposed to be about 95 degrees on Saturday, so conditions won't be good.
Question about recovery -- if the workout just says "3 minutes recovery," do you take that as jogging for 3 minutes? walking? Standing around? I normally just jog for the time, but wonder if I'm doing it right.
Oregon - DD3 did really well on her run. She fell asleep during the first 15 minutes or so and slept for all but maybe the last 15 minutes. She cried for about 2 seconds after she woke up but fixed that herself when she found the pacifier she had dropped. I've since setup things to let me get out the door more quickly with her if need be.
To me "recovery" means jogging, perhaps walking if needed to make sure I can get through the next rep in the correct pace/time. Some type of movement - this can help clear lactate from the legs. "Rest" (which I've only seen in a plan once) is just standing around. Hopefully someone else can back me up on this, even if just to make sure I've been doing things right in my own training!
Do you have any goals for the 5k?
Pace Prophet
Brew - ugh, I am impressed you can run in that heat. As you know, when I couldn't run in the morning due to smoke I mostly wimped out and did the gym treadmill. Even lately it's been 65F+ in the mornings (unusually warm, usually it's mid-50s early) and it's been tough. And chances of 3:20-ish workouts are about as slim as me running a 3:20, sigh.
PJ - woohoo! Adventure time! I hope all works out.
Keen - you should be able to standard-calculator the 5k into a half, even with a speed surplus. That will give you both a half for guestimating on the full, and for aiming at for your half. I think it's a good workout to do a 5k, shouldn't hurt your training. And, um, the segment PRs are mostly because I didn't start using Strava until basically a year ago.
Oregon - 95??? Yuck! Good luck. And I usually just do a slow jog recovery.
Don't get me wrong, I'm pleased to be back up to 40mpw and a 14M LR and a 5 mile tempo today, hooray. But it's also dispiriting to see how much slower I am than 2016. [whining rant redacted] I'm about where I was last year just before I got injured, which honestly was a lot slower than I'd wanted to be at the time! Oh, well.
Next week will be a mulligan for me as it's the SU's birthday and he decided he wanted to go mountain biking in Telluride for a few days. So it will be mostly xt and hopefully no bones broken...
keen I forgot to mention NeRP is doing the "zombie crawl" pretty well and is trying to get his legs under him. As for the 5K and half marathons prior to the race....umm...they could support your goal or destroy it. A 5k probably wouldn't affect training much. If you get miles in early in the week you could have a day off before the race. I don't know if I've raced a half prior to a marathon other than once and it supported my goal. It was also on a similar course in town. IF I read your schedule correctly the 5K is 11 weeks prior to the marathon. Right about the time you could look at increasing training paces. The half marathon is around that time as well.
ilana yeah it was about 70 this morning. I hate the heat but I'm still running on lunch to embrace as much of it as possible. Hopefully it helps me with Chicago's weather.
oregon I'm with keen on recovery. Jog. The workouts I'm doing say "recovery" for some and "rest" for others. Rest I stand still. Recovery I jog (slowly) because I think the goal is to keep the heart rate up. Good luck on the 5K. It sounds like you weather is similar to mine and Keen's this week. HOT AS FAWK!
Got my short miles in. Garmin is acting up. 9.73 for the day with 4 of them at lunch. Again, I feel like this training is making my slow runs faster. Hopefully it comes through tomorrow.
pie man
Nevada is boring, huh. Have you seen this place called Ohio?
11:11 3,000 (recent)
Oregon: 95 degrees for a 5k sounds terrible...good luck!
Brew/Keen: my youngest is a pro at army crawling, but refuses to go on hands and knees for the most part. I tell myself she is thinking "my army crawl is more efficient, therefore I will not go on hands and knees." She's also been getting up twice a night for the last 3 weeks, so that's fun.
One other kid story. My oldest daughter last night said, "Dad, can I run faster than boys?" I said, "Absolutely!" Now she just claims it and says shes faster than all the boys, haha! #girlpower.
We've had a decent amount of rain the last week and temps have dropped from low 90s to low 80s. That has made a big difference for me. Humidity is still holding steady at 90+%. I just wish the morning temps were a little lower, still in the 70s. My kids refuse hugs when I get back from runs because I'm so sweaty.
Had a good interval workout this morning. My legs are finally turning over! 2 up, 6x1000 with 1:00 rest, 2 down. Goal was 3:45ish (6:00 pace). I went 3:45, 3:43, 3:40, 3:40, 3:41, 3:39.
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
I've not. Is it round at both ends and high in the middle?
ace welcome to my wife's life for the first 5-6 months. She had to leave for a weekend (bridal shower/bachelorette0 party to get him to sleep through the night (joking, but actually true). I think my wife's first response when I come back from runs is the necessity of a shower for me. DD3 is a december baby, correct? I thought it went keen, NeRP, ace last year for the ninos. SOLID workout. I'll be doing something similar tonight.
keen sounds like you have it planned out well. I have a half marathon I've done each year it's been offered (3 years so far) and one was as a pacer. See if they have something like that available and/or how you can get into the mix. It's easier to keep the streak alive if you're pacing annually.
73 days. I'm a little scared/nervous at this point. I need to remind myself training isn't over yet. As much as I'd like it to be simply because it means the weather is nicer for running. Until it starts to rain sideways with 20 mph winds and colder temps below 40.
Ilana - MTB (or most outdoor activities) in Telluride sounds pretty awesome. Being back to where you were a year ago may not be where you want it to be, but it seems a good deal to me given the injury- especially since your fitness really seems to be on an upswing. Also, I'll take your "unusually warm" weather any day!
Brew - DD3 used to get really mad at her own inability to move, so I think that pushed her some with the scooting/crawling thing. I've got a friend with a son just a couple days older than DD3 who is already "walking" when pushing one of those "learn to walk" rolling toy things.
As silly as it sounds, I actually picked my marathon because of its timing relative to the HM I have planned. I've run it both other years it has been around and for some reason want to have a streak going. I figure the 5k might be an opportunity to validate/update training paces and give me an idea of what I might could run the HM in (and thus the M).
Ace - DD3 still scoots/army crawls whenever she wants to move faster (or get under the coffee table). I like your oldest's attitude! How old is she again?Sounds like you've been having similar weather to what I've been dealing with, though with a bit more humidity. We're usually around 80%/DP ~70*. Also, killer workout. Do you have a 5k coming up?
Good luck to Max at Ouray. I just found out Luke Sanchez (Squirrel's Nut Butter Sponsored athlete) is out there. I just saw a photo of him with Courtney Dauwalter. Hope she isn't pacing him or else Max just might think he is hallucinating and seeing brunettes running on the trails with him.
Recovery Phenom
Ace: Thanks for the support
Arvind: Thanks for your support! Are you running Richmond again?
Brewing: Strong week for you. 1,000 meter repeats kinda suck, I'll be honest, but 5 of them ain't so bad. And the 400s after will be fun.
Commander: I start actively training for Rehoboth in mid-September but the hard stuff won't come until the end of October. I'm with Darkwave on the theory that marathon training is really just 6-8 hard weeks. That's why I don't feel like I'm behind in my training. Regarding your 5K, I think that's a great idea. And it's far enough out from your marathon that you don't even need to worry about the long run. I think it would give you a good boost and a nice benchmark for your fitness. I'm planning to run a 5K in late September, which is 7 weeks out from my target half, so we will kinda be in the same boat.
oregonrw: Yes, Rehoboth is flat, but there are 6+ miles of packed dirt trail which I kind of worry about. But the fact that the weather is almost guaranteed to be cool makes up for that. I've learned that when race planning I should make "coldness" be the most important factor in my decision as I really have zero heat tolerance and will fade once it gets into the 50s. Yikes, your race weather is going to be hot. But it sounds like you are really well prepared. Nice workout with the 1000ms. To answer your question, I almost always jog the recovery at a pace of 10:30-11:30. However, there are some workouts where you only get 30-60 seconds recovery, and for that I walk or simply stand still. But those are rare and mainly when I'm training for a 5K, requiring very fast reps with very short recovery.
ilana: My sports psychologist says that you should only compare yourself to your RECENT past! You are making outstanding progress.
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I ran 4.2 miles this morning, 9:03 average pace. It was 73 and 100% humidity, but I still felt good. The crazy thing is that I felt better during the second half of the run than I did the first. And I thought that was only a thing that happened when you were well trained for endurance. LOL. I'm going to go slightly longer tomorrow and then my "long run" this weekend will be a full hour. I've been spending way too much money on running clothes lately. I am rewarding myself for recovering and I can't seem to stop buying stuff. Help!!!
26.2 x 31 (3:15:34 PR)
13.1 x 35 (1:30:58 PR)
Author of the book Boston Bound
Duke Of Bad Judgment
Sitting in Ouray CO, waiting for my race to start in... oh... 41 hours, with very little to do. Especially since I failed to connect with Ilana when I was closer to Durango. So I might as well catch up on 15 pages of the 320 thread.
FB: When we can disappear to Europe for a few weeks without having to worry about old parents, old pets, or "old children" I'd consider something like Templiers.
Brew: Ditto to what Matt said about putting NeRP in a trailer behind your bike. What could go wrong? I raised a Hardrock Strawberry Rhubarb Gose in your honor at Avalanche Brewing in Silverton. Darkwave could have put a tiny umbrella in it.
Jim's Kat: Cool encounter with CBBPTR (Certain Boulder-Based etc...). Haven't scratched "going out for beers" off my fan-boy list yet.
PJ: Belated kudos on the Donner Party Buffet comment.
Dad: Congrats on that DFL! Or does DFL not bring you kudos on the track like it does in a long trail race?
Ilana: Thank you for tamping down the fires. I'm sorry we didn't sync up.
Jack Daniels Plans: Buried in the second edition of his book is a sentence or two saying that for the harder workouts, mortal runners should run by time not distance. E.g. instead of running 1 mile at T pace, run 5-6 minutes at T pace. That makes the workout/rest combo much more do-able.
Clever: You seem young for frozen shoulder. I thought that was an old folks' thing, like for me.
VaporFly Boost: I think I've said this here before, but Alex Hutchinson talks about this in his book Endure. There are lots of things that have been shown scientifically to boost performance by 1-3%. When you do/use more than 1 of those things at the same time, your performance goes up by... 1-3%. The theory is that it is ALL psychological - there's a 1-3% reserve that your brain holds onto unless it has a reason to BELIEVE. Another study that has similar implications is one where they had people race against a virtual version of themselves, based on a track from a great race they had run. Not surprisingly, the subjects were able to keep up with themselves. More interesting is that they were able to keep up with themselves even when the virtual version was sped up subtly by 1-3%. When the virtual version sped up by 5% they couldn't keep up. It's probably not the technology in any given performance booster, it's that if the story is good enough that your brain buys in, your brain might let you go faster.
Hi to many others...
Hardrock: Since I was here to acclimate, I went to Silverton last weekend, volunteered, and did one "run". The run was the first leg of the John Cappis 50k Fat Ass course - basically up an avalanche gully from Silverton to the top of Kendall Benchmark (which you can see from Silverton) and then a ridge run over Kendall Mountain (which you can't see) and back down to Silverton. The first uphill was something like 3500 feet up in 1.5 miles, and ended with a scramble up very loose sketchy scree. It felt like the mountain was going to slide out from under me and I did a lot of slow 4-point subtle weight shifts to get past a 20 foot bulge. I talked to James Varner (John Cappis RD, DNF'd at Hardrock this year due to lightning) afterwards - he said they are going to change that bit. It's ok when there's snow there but it's "scary as $hit" (his words) without snow.
I did data entry for about 6 hours - if you were following the tracking on Friday, that was me - and volunteered at the finish line "aid station" from 3am Saturday to 1pm Saturday. I was there when the RD came in and announced that the first runner would be even later because Xavier had just been disqualified. I heard he was photographed sitting in a car getting water and ice just two miles out of the Ouray aid station. Dumb and pretty weird. The funny thing is that I noticed his tracker basically stop right there on the map for a while. It took them about 8 hours of meetings to make the DQ call - really trying to make sure they knew exactly what had happened.
Lots of trail runner celebrities were there running, watching, and/or helping - both Western States winners, other top 10 WS finishers from previous years, a bunch of Hardrock old-timers. It was cool to see Michael Wardian put in a long volunteer shift at the finish line aid-station after he finished. The 3rd finisher in the Barkley movie - John Fegyverisi - also ran and finished. He was on a ridge during a big lightning storm that hit Saturday evening and said that was also SaS.
Ouray 100: And my race, the Ouray 100, starts Friday morning. If lightning and fatigue don't get me, I expect to finish Sunday morning after the sun comes up the second time. Tracking and other info here, for those who enjoy watching paint dry.
Speed Surplus
Good luck at Ouray, Max! Also...
"Clever: You seem young for frozen shoulder. I thought that was an old folks' thing, like for me."
I mean... I am technically a Master's runner, so...
5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12
Oh oh oh, I forgot! I was eating dinner last night and saw what I thought was a hummingbird. Nope - a hummingbird moth, which I'd never heard of. If you guys aren't interested in this, maybe I should go over and post it in LetsRun. I'm sure they'll love it.