Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Duke Of Bad Judgment
McB: Is there some reason to start your race? E.g. a streak or some other (usually stupid) reason to do a race that may cause a setback? I went through this same question with Butte this year - "8 years in a row, maybe I could walk it and beat the cutoff". Reason prevailed though and as I result I've been able to DNF several more compelling races this year (including the Bridle Trails Fat Glass 50k - Drunk Division). You are talking about a half marathon. Is there such thing as a compelling half marathon? (I am the wrong person to know). Anyway, obviously I'm lobbying for you to do several 15-20 mile runs before the half so you are well-trained, but maybe you should consider increasing those to 20-25 miles.
brew - forgot to mention that every time I drink during races (FM and HM), I walk the water stations. If I don't, there's a chance I may get a side stitch for some reason (happened to me in Berlin) and then it's hard to get back into it. The only time on Sunday that I tried to run whilst drinking, I started coughing.
Also, my German is almost inexistent. After living here for 3 years, I've learnt a few words but can't really keep a basic conversation for too long.
DkW - first, I completely agree that ideally I would be able to run a negative or even split, especially because it's much more enjoyable. In my case, however, I have the feeling that my fastest time would come in a positive split. It seems like I tend to start slowing down after the 2:20 hour mark or so. Maybe it's psychological. I feel like if I had run the first half in 1:29, I would have not been able to run the second in 1:29 for a 2:58 finish, so positive split gives me a fastest time. Does anyone else feel this way?
This is something I need to work on: preventing the fade. I used the JD plan exactly because of that, to learn to push when legs are tired, but I couldn't follow it very well in the end. However, the same happened in my previous marathons, when I had good cycles.
McB - I like option 2... it's always better to do a long run with a crowd
rune and ace - you guys have been having fantastic training. Have you already decided on goals? Rune, you mentioned 3:15, right?
5K - 18:03 (5.18) | 10K - 37:58 (2.18) | HM - 1:20:45 (9.18) | FM: 2:57:59 (10.18)
McB -- do you like showing up for a race, talking with people, and all the social parts of it? One option would be to treat it as a 2x 6.5 @ slow. Run the first 6.5 at something slow, talking with everybody around you, chat up the crowd, and then hit the aid station closest to 6.5. Stop, stretch, do some roadside yoga. Find someone else interesting to run with and do the second 6.5 @ slower. It's almost the ultra vibe, but in a smaller package. With no extra running before. I guess this is a modified version 2.
rlk -- you are about the same age as DD1, and I was expressing care that you look after yourself. :-) I do that to her as well. hugs.
Pesto -- I've missed this from before-- where are you originally from?
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
I can't remember who asked the 3 marathons in a year question, but from March of 2017 to March of 2018 I did 3 marathons, the last was my best. Mentally it was kind of exhausting. I liked the little break I got this year between a March and November marathon. It felt like I wasn't always in the throws of marathon training and got to enjoy some lower pressure miles.
McBen: I have no constructive advice on the race. Does Sumo count as any kind of cross training?
Pesto: I'm pretty certain I'll aim for sub-3 if weather cooperates. It's been cool in Indy this week (30s-40s), so hopefully it stays that way. The biggest question for me on race day will be how I tolerate nutrition. If I don't tolerate it well I tend to get some muscle cramps. Sometimes there mild and I can get by with 30 seconds of stretching a couple times. Sometimes they lead to 11:00 miles.
I had a new workout yesterday that was challenging in a new way. 2 easy, 4 x 2 mile, 2 easy. The 4 by 2 mile paces were GMP, 10 seconds faster than GMP, 10k, whatever is left. GMP for me is 6:52. The first two sets felt super easy for a track workout and the last two reps were a great mental and physical challenge. I had 22 miles this past Saturday and in the last 1.5 miles of the workout I started to feel the fatigue. I tried to push into the 5:30s on the last mile, but didn't have the next gear. Mentally I felt like I pushed on the last rep. This built some confidence. Splits below:
6:51, 6:51 (2:00 rest)
6:41, 6:33 (2:00 rest)
6:09, 6:04 (3:00 rest)
5:53, 5:43
I have one workout left, 5 x mile next week, but the work is basically done. Just need to take care of the body and avoid illness and check the weather a bunch.
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
McB - I would stick to current build-up and not try to fit too much in before the half. You'll probably be fine if you run the half easy. Worse case is going to a run/walk strategy for the last few miles. But if you find a group to chat with you'll probably enjoy it and keep it easy.
One more option - run the half in a Sumo wrestler costume?
Ace - Nice workout! Did you do that full workout on the track? Definitely a confidence builder for Indy. You'll get that sub-3!
Pesto - I enjoyed the race report. I think I am similar on the positive splits. I would have to start out at too slow of a pace to negative split and would then be stressing about making up the pace in the late miles. The course I PR'd in had a gradual, mile long uphill at mile 26. I knew it was coming and that it would be part of why the second half would be slower. I was glad to have some time banked as that mile was a good 40 seconds slower than most other miles.
fb - from Argentina, but living in Vienna, Austria, for the last 3 years.
Cobra Commander Keen
McBen - The Bucks Co. sounds a lot like my goal race this fall. Except for the location. Also, I'd vote for option "B" from your list, but I think I prefer option "B" from Rovatti's more.
Ace - I saw that workout on Strava and was a bit confuzzled with what some of those paces were for you - thanks for the explanation. Geez, you're getting fast.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
ace - That's great! I was thinking you should go for sub3. You are definitely in great shape for it and if conditions remain like that, I'm sure you'll get it. Hopefully the stomach cooperates. What is the nutrition strategy?
Also, crazy fast miles!
matt - yes, exactly! The only time I was able to negative split a marathon was on my first, where I was extremely conservative. On the other hand, it is interesting that I don't have this problem in the HM, where my PRs came often with fairly even (or slightly negative) splits.
pie man
Be careful and look both ways before you cross an intersection! Remember last time. :-( We have dockless regular bikes here and it's funny. There are orange bikes lying around everywhere; total chaos. We use dockless car sharing, and it's great because you can drive and park in the no-car zones. It's a CalBears sighting. Wow. Hello. PJ -- we lived on Chalk Hill Rd, outside Healdsburg for about 12 years. The road is on the Ironman course for cycling, but it's a bad place to run. I hope you enjoy it; Healdsburg was a sleepy town with wineries in the 80s/90s, but I'll bet it's packed with high end tourist stuff now.
Be careful and look both ways before you cross an intersection! Remember last time. :-(
We have dockless regular bikes here and it's funny. There are orange bikes lying around everywhere; total chaos. We use dockless car sharing, and it's great because you can drive and park in the no-car zones.
It's a CalBears sighting. Wow. Hello.
PJ -- we lived on Chalk Hill Rd, outside Healdsburg for about 12 years. The road is on the Ironman course for cycling, but it's a bad place to run. I hope you enjoy it; Healdsburg was a sleepy town with wineries in the 80s/90s, but I'll bet it's packed with high end tourist stuff now.
Definitely touristy, but it's a nice break from Lake County. Upper Lake is also not particularly good for running. I am on levees about 50 percent of the time. The running store seems to like weekend runs in Santa Rosa, which is probably not a big deal for them from Healdsburg, but the extra 20-30 minutes is a deal breaker for me. Store looked nice. 'Largest collection of trucker hats.' Not sure i'm going to make the film tomorrow, now.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
Matt: Sadly, that was all on a track. I hate running in circles, but it was a group practice and it's nice to have a coach giving splits and people giving encouragement. The easy miles were on the road.
Pesto: When I ran 3:05 and negative split I took a Gu every 4-5 miles and Endurolytes (essentially salt capsules) every 6ish miles. Sipped water every mile. My stomach issues mainly come when I try to combine nutrition with heat. It's probably a little late in this cycle to change strategies since all my LRs are done. Everyone is talking about Maurten Gels. Maybe I'll try them next time. Walking the aid stations would make me anxious I'm giving up too much time. Do you like doing it that way? Do you have trouble getting going again?
Glad that you mentioned about Maurten gels. I am so included to try them. They are expensive though
Matt: Sadly, that was all on a track. I hate running in circles, but it was a group practice and it's nice to have a coach giving splits and people giving encouragement. The easy miles were on the road. Pesto: When I ran 3:05 and negative split I took a Gu every 4-5 miles and Endurolytes (essentially salt capsules) every 6ish miles. Sipped water every mile. My stomach issues mainly come when I try to combine nutrition with heat. It's probably a little late in this cycle to change strategies since all my LRs are done. Everyone is talking about Maurten Gels. Maybe I'll try them next time. Walking the aid stations would make me anxious I'm giving up too much time. Do you like doing it that way? Do you have trouble getting going again?
Resident Millennial
I like to think that Maurten is all hype and dolla billz based on their marketing. However, I have read nothing about them nor have I tried the gels/drinks/etc. So let us know what you think if you spring for it, arvind
FB- all good, and I appreciate it <3! I'll take surrogate parents wherever I can, to fill the gaps in my own personal life, ha.
Colleen Quigley came to team practice again last night. She reached out to US to join this time!!! Amazing. She jumped into part of the team workout - but actually ran with our 2nd pack and not the 1st (fastest) one like she did last time. If anyone here uses instagram, check out her stories from yesterday.
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
*Checks instagram:
'Lunch Date with Bae'
Awww.
Ace - I did have a hard time getting going again in Paris, when it was very hot aand I was tired towards the end. However, last Sunday I actually liked it. It gave me a nice break and when I re started I felt energized at least for 500m-1 km. I did not drink in every station though, maybe every 7-8 kms, after I had a gel, and one extra time during the last stretch I think.
Berlin opens today. Who are signing up?