2018 3:20 (and beyond) (Read 581 times)


Speed Surplus

    Congrats to Ace! You crushed that sub-3 in style!

     

    Nice one by beryl, too. Sub-90 has a nice ring to it.

     

    My week - Ever so slowly dialing up the running. I was thinking about targeting Tunnel again in June for another Botulism attempt, but I spent all of my race/fitness $$$ on my ebike and Tunnel raised their prices enough that I don't want to go out of pocket. So now I'm not sure... If there's still a spot in Tunnel in January when my $$$ refreshes, I will register for it. If not... I'm not sure what's next.

     

    <tfoot> </tfoot>
    Day Miles Pace Duration Description HR Egain Link
    Mon 18.6 3:21 1:02 Tryin' not to break a sweat...but the hills 😅 128 (70%) 1036 strava
    Mon 7.3 8:30 1:02 Treadmill, kicked it up to near 5k pace at the end because I was bored 140 (76%) 0 strava
    Wed 9.3 8:34 1:19 15k, 140 bpm, metronome 140 (76%) 245 strava
    Thu 7.0 8:40 1:00 An hour and change of ez treadmill 131 (71%) 0 strava
    Thu 18.6 3:06 0:57 💨 no match for my 🚲 129 (70%) 766 strava
    Fri 3.3 9:11 0:30 This is actually a big win, because I did NOT feel like running. 117 (64%) 0 strava
    Sun 7.2 8:55 1:04 From wifepace to marathonpace 134 (73%) 250 strava
      71.3 5:51 6:57     2297

    5:27 / 19:03 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

    AceHarris


      Thanks for all the congrats!.

       

      Nice race Beryl!

       

      Here's the race report if you're interested, https://tnrun.blogspot.com/

       

      Taking the week off from any running, then will ease my way back into it. Really not sure what's next on the running agenda. This was my #1 priority. Maybe a speed cycle and target some shorter races, maybe take it easy for a while. Who knows, maybe I'll find some bad ideas to get into.

      Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 18:10 (2017), 10k: 38:25 (2017, course was 6.1), HM: 1:25:16 (2018), M: 2:57:18 (2018)

      mattw4jc


        Would March be enough time to bounce back from a 1:32:53 HM at Chicago and is that even fast enough to hit a 3:05? The training spreadsheet I have says 3:13. It's 20 weeks away.

        I don't even know where there is a HM I could run to try and get an idea of "current" fitness but I'd say the first half of Chicago is an indicator. It was a PR after all.

         

         

        Brewing - a 1:32:53 HM is slower than you need to run to break 3:05 for the full, so no, it's not fast enough for 3:05.  However, you could go out in 1:32:53 for the first half of your marathon and break 3:05 Smile

         

         

        A buddy of mine likes to use the HM * 2 + 10% formula. He prefers 10% because it scales better when you look much slower or faster times.

         

        So a 1:32 = 92 minutes. 92 * 2 + 9.2 = 193.2 = 3:13 as your spreadsheet says.


        Speed Surplus

          That's a great write-up, Ace, and a really well-executed race. Again, congrats! Savor your performance.

          5:27 / 19:03 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

          Brewing Runner


          CIM FanBoi

            Btw, Brewing - you didn't ask me, but I think that it's totally legit to count your first half of Chicago as your PR for that distance.  It was chip timed and accurately measured.

             

            For the reasons you pointed out, and because I went at race effort, I'm accepting it as my HM race time. I assumed you supported my decisions when you didn't reply with an explanation why my time wasn't acceptable. Part of me is afraid of entering a training cycle again for fear of over analyzing every part of it.

             

            Unsure how I'll bounce back, how to measure that without a race, and how I can somehow knock about 4 minutes or so off my HM time. I could POSSIBLY race a Turkey Trot but even then it's pointing to almost a minute faster than my 5K PR and almost 2 minutes faster than my 10K PR from May. In other words...not possible with 1 training cycle. Ah the discouragement (not pointing fingers or anything) settling in making Ultra Marathons sound like a logical solution. It's the hard part of improvements...they're getting smaller at this point. I even know improving 5 minutes on my marathon time is harder than improving 10 minutes from my 3:23 time or even 30 minutes over a 3:56 marathon.

             

            TL;DR Marathons suck. Oh and Mt. Charleston is an average -4% slope/grade. Not a monster and apparently it would benefit to strengthen the legs.

            1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

            5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

            10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

            Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

            Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

            Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

            *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

             

            2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon. 

             

            seattlemax


            Duke Of Bad Judgment

              Gorgeous race Ace!!!    Those even splits for the first 18 miles are a thing of beauty.  Nice write-up and an amazing race.

               

              Beryl: And nice half - that's fast even with a downhill assist.  And also well-managed.

               

              Clever: I hadn't noticed the price increase.  That's actually a good thing - maybe the races will stop selling out immediately.  I've definitely signed up thinking "cheap enough, just in case".

               

              Brew: Of course ultras are the solution.

               

              McB: I haven't seen that nonsense, but I see that Strava has decided to monetize their challenges by allowing Amazon and other companies to spam me in the monthly challenges.  That's nonsense too.

               

              OMR: Nice to see you posting a 50 mile week.  Paces are still more Smax- than OMR-like, but you'll get there eventually.

               

              Hi all.

               

              My Crooked Road race is less than 2 weeks out.  There's a 23 year old wunderkind who should be the favorite, if he runs smart.   He ran 65 miles in a 12 hour race on a technical trail 2 months ago, and he stopped at 11:15.  Thing is... in the past 2 months he's increased his easy run pace from 8+/mile to about 6/mile (yesterday he had some 5:40-ish splits) and his heart rate for those runs seems to have increased by 20-25 bpm (optical HR monitor though, so I'm not sure that's valid).  He's been doing a bunch of short fast intervals too - e.g. 12x2 min at 4:40/mile.  He can probably run a great half right now.  But he may be training his body to prefer carbs, which isn't the best strategy for a 24 hour race.   If he starts slow and steady it may work out fine.  If he starts fast, it may get ugly.  This is the downside to having yourself on Strava - it allows your competition to stalk your training.

               

              My week - with pool miles it was about 99 total.  That Sunday run is a joke - my Suunto watch apparently decided I was stopped for about 25% of the time we were out.  And more nonsense - Strava prioritizes moving time over elapsed time.

              Weekly Summary
              Monday, Oct 29, 2018 thru Sunday, Nov 04, 2018

              <tfoot> </tfoot>
              Day Miles Pace Description Egain Link
              Mon 8.0 10:19 Morning Run 92 strava
              Tue 13.0 11:01 6x Tempo effort repeats at Queen Anne 2054 strava
              Wed 9.0 9:52 Morning Run 117 strava
              Thu 10.0 9:48 Morning Run 451 strava
              Fri 15.0 10:14 Morning Run 843 strava
              Sat 9.0 10:42 Morning Run 390 strava
              Sun 10.0 7:08 Morning Run 1000 strava
                74.0 9:56   4947  

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                Ace - really really well executed race.  I agree that you had the perfect set up for a great race.  However, you still needed to actually do it.  And you did!  Really pumped for you!

                 

                Smax - I didn't realize you were doing pool-running miles - how did I miss that?  Interesting thoughts on the wunderkind.

                 

                Dunno if you guys saw this, but the President of Estonia ran NYC yesterday, accompanied by two USSS guys.  One of them, Mason, is a teammate of mine.  It was pretty funny - he showed up for the Wednesday workout, and when we were all discussing our planned weekend runs, casually dropped that he was running NYC.  Universal "BWAH?" from the rest of us.

                 

                He then went on to run the 25x400m workout....

                 

                If you guys are wondering, he's pretty fast.  He's shooting to break 2:50 at Philly, I believe.

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                berylrunner


                Rick

                  And Beryl  - good PR for you.  How do you remember all that detail each mile?

                   

                   

                   

                  I didn't during the race.  Going though the splits on my watch I noticed the paces exactly matched the course profile or where there was a minor issue, so the race was easy to construct in a report.  I gave some extra detail if any of you wanted to critique for some feedback.  I know i will need to manage the pace better and fuel/hydrate for the marathon.  Also will not change my goal because of one race.  Will still train in the 3:25-3:30 pace recommendations.

                   

                  Nice training weeks everyone.

                   

                  Brew - Being new here I have no place to give advice but I don't think you can go wrong with hill repeats.  But run them a little different.  Go easy on the uphill and then really push the downhill.

                   

                  Max - I see you don't like to taper like me.  Huge weeks.  Any name to the Wunderkind or do we stay in suspense?

                   

                  and thanks for the congrats everyone.  It helps ease the pain.  I have things sore that I didn't know existed.

                   

                  09-06-19   Last One Standing

                   

                  10-05-19   St. George Marathon

                  CommanderKeen


                  Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                    DWave - I certainly agree that "low" mileage is good for a taper but last week was a bit lower than intended, when going by the percentage reduction week by week. It's certainly not something I'm worried about, though.

                    Way nifty regarding your local USSS agent. I can't imagine that the pool of people who could run a marathon loaded down like that is very deep.


                    Max - Quite interesting about the young competition's training. I can honestly say that I wouldn't have considered that type of training in the lead-up to a 24 hour race.
                    Looks like there are enough curves in the course to keep things somewhat interesting, but the same 1.178mi loop for 24 hours has to start getting old after a while.

                    5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                     

                    Upcoming Races:

                    Dallas Marathon 12/15

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                      Brewing - following up on your earlier post - I would assume that you can run (or will be able to, once recovered and trained) faster for a stand-alone half-marathon than you did for the first half of Chicago.

                       

                      Races: Have you considered Grandma's?  It's in June, and though not a west coast race, it's not east coast either.

                       

                      Otherwise, you could do the Tunnel marathons - they have some spring ones, right?

                       

                      ***

                       

                      9.5 miles for me - 3 miles warm-up (9:13), then 5x800 in 3:00, 2:59, 2:55, 2:55, 2:54.  2.5 miles cooldown (8:41).  Skipped the injury prevention work/leg strengthwork in favor of voting - my polling place happens to be the high school associated with the track, and 7:45 am was the perfect time to vote - no lines.  At 6:00 am, when they opened, my partner waited 30 minutes....Then did some recovery swimming.

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                      Brewing Runner


                      CIM FanBoi

                        Brewing - following up on your earlier post - I would assume that you can run (or will be able to, once recovered and trained) faster for a stand-alone half-marathon than you did for the first half of Chicago.

                         

                        Races: Have you considered Grandma's?  It's in June, and though not a west coast race, it's not east coast either.

                         

                        Otherwise, you could do the Tunnel marathons - they have some spring ones, right?

                         

                        Grandma's is a little far but I considered it. Tunnel is around the same time and it's a possibility due to my wife's family being nearby along with sc &max. Revel says an average 4% which makes me wonder about the whole "run a major downhill marathon and BQ" complaints, as well as wonder how much a 4% downhill contributes to running faster. If I double my HM time and add 10% to figure out my best marathon would I just add 6%? If so I'd be around 3:10. Still not enough. yet. Which I try to remind myself right now and just keep 45 mpw as a base. I also mentioned Tulsa on April 29 which is in keen's front yard and he's running it.

                         

                        I'm in some odd slump. Like a "poor me I'm not good enough" kind of slump (been here before in life) and it's mostly annoying because I can't just get over it.

                         

                        max I'm sure you'll dust the competition. He'll go out way too fast and do some awkward walk for the remaining 12 hours.

                        1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                        5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                        10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                        Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                        Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                        Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                        *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

                         

                        2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon. 

                         

                        Arvind Balaraman


                          down hill marathons are equally hard for me. After what my quads did to me at Chicago, I am a bit skeptical for myself.

                           

                          Grandma's is a little far but I considered it. Tunnel is around the same time and it's a possibility due to my wife's family being nearby along with sc &max. Revel says an average 4% which makes me wonder about the whole "run a major downhill marathon and BQ" complaints, as well as wonder how much a 4% downhill contributes to running faster. If I double my HM time and add 10% to figure out my best marathon would I just add 6%? If so I'd be around 3:10. Still not enough. yet. Which I try to remind myself right now and just keep 45 mpw as a base. I also mentioned Tulsa on April 29 which is in keen's front yard and he's running it.

                           

                          I'm in some odd slump. Like a "poor me I'm not good enough" kind of slump (been here before in life) and it's mostly annoying because I can't just get over it.

                           

                          max I'm sure you'll dust the competition. He'll go out way too fast and do some awkward walk for the remaining 12 hours.


                          Speed Surplus

                            Brew: There's also the Foot Traffic Flat marathon in the Portland area in July. It's pancake flat - I've run the half-marathon course there before. The only downside is that it's usually on July 4th, which means that they start EARLY to try to avoid the heat (and it's a pain in the butt to get to the starting line on time), plus...that doesn't always work and it can still get hot by the end.

                            5:27 / 19:03 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                            mattw4jc


                              SC - such the salesman for Portland you are!

                               

                              Brew - you need 3:05 for Boston, right? Or actually 3:03 or :04? Would you consider a last chance type of marathon in September? I know there's one in Illinois and there's a couple in the north east. The reason I ask is to give you more time. I would consider targeting an early spring half marathon in which you shoot for a 1:27 / sub 1:28. If that is successful, you then train for the full marathon.

                               

                              I am an example of one, but I went with this strategy 3 years ago in a bid for a sub-3 marathon. About 11 months out, I first trained for a 39:00 10k (got 39:02). Then I trained for a 1:25 half (got 1:25:23). After a short break and some more base building, I trained for a sub-3 (got 2:58:46).

                               

                              The other major change was higher mileage. I had previously used Higdon or my own plan, but usually peaking at 55 mpw. For the sub-3, I used Pfitz 18/70 plan which peaked at 70ish and averaged about 62mpw for the middle 14 weeks. I built up this mileage some before the half and even more after. And for the record, I am cheap and not able to travel for marathons very often, so I ran the hometown marathon (Charlotte, NC). It is avoided by most people hoping to PR because of its rolling elevation.

                               

                              Granted, I have not yet repeated my own strategy, but at least it worked once. I feel like you're kind of in the same place I was then and may need to shake things up a bit. Again, example of one, my 1 cents worth, etc.

                              CommanderKeen


                              Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                                Brew - I agree with DWave - certainly count Chicago as a HM PR, but know that it's soft.
                                Not that I've had a great opportunity to show in in a race, but I really think a HM focused cycle has really helped with my speed endurance and was a lot of fun. Less mileage, a different target, but something that still works toward your overall goal. I like Matt's suggestion of an early fall marathon.
                                OKC Memorial is in April - Tulsa is in November. OKC certainly has the possibility of being a fast course and has some great course support, but the weather has the possibility of being a limiting factor. Late April in OKC can either be 20* warmer than the weather we've seen all year, and the typical south wind can be a problem in one section of the course (the other in to the wind section was removed with a new course for 2019). Tulsa typically has much better weather but is pretty hilly - especially the back half.

                                5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                                 

                                Upcoming Races:

                                Dallas Marathon 12/15