2018 3:20 (and beyond) (Read 581 times)

Speed Surplus

    Congrats Keen and Max!


    I'm jealous of that marathon course, Keen. Looks like my kind of layout. And Max... now a Back2Back ultramarathon champion?! That's a heck of a thing to be able to say.


    My week - decent running, but the highlight was a nice long bike ride that was able to sneak away for on Saturday. The weather was beautiful, so I took the opportunity to bike all the way around Lake Washington. It worked out to just over 53 miles, and yes, I used my regular road bike. Funnily enough, my heart rate was about the same as it is for ebike rides - I just go faster on the ebike.


    <tfoot> </tfoot>
    Day Miles Pace Duration Description HR Egain Link
    Mon 7.2 8:20 0:59 Stayed inside, probably should have gone outside. 90 secs of 10mph at end 143 (78%) 0 strava
    Tue 18.6 3:04 0:57 Smooth and cool 133 (72%) 747 strava
    Wed 5.2 8:12 0:43 Treadmill while thinking about possible long bike ride this weekend... 143 (78%) 0 strava
    Thu 18.5 3:19 1:01 Forgot my work shirt 😬 128 (70%) 1007 strava
    Thu 4.3 8:07 0:34 Worked out, bought new shirt 👕 145 (79%) 0 strava
    Fri 6.8 8:07 0:55 Powered by 🍩🍩🍩 145 (79%) 397 strava
    Sat 53.3 3:59 3:32 Loop de Lake - birthday gift to myself 130 (71%) 1470 strava
      113.9 4:36 8:44     3621

    5:27 / 19:03 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12


    Mother of Cats

      Beryl - was there any specific training purpose behind hitting that mileage?  Or was it a Smax-like "because it's there" thing?


      Pesto - I believe it's possible to negative split at Botulism, and to PR doing so (I know people who have) though you  may have just wrecked your chances by using the B-word.


      For me, negative splitting is by far the easiest and fastest way to run - I think a lot of this is because all of my workouts progress, so I'm trained to negative split.  I think the best workout for you to try would be progression runs - just start slow and build the pace over time.  Doing tempos where each mile is a second or two faster than the previous also hard wires this, as do intervals where you speed up slightly.


      Once you're trained to pace this way, it becomes very natural.  I don't stare at my watch when tempoing - I just know that if I hold what feels like a steady effort, each mile will get a bit faster as I build momentum.


      I know that some argue for a slight positive split as optimal pacing, under the belief that it makes the most sense to run the most aggressively when you are fresh.  I believe (having had it drilled into my head by my coach) that it is most efficient to smoothly build pace as you run - the longer you have been running, the more the blood has been flowing, and the better your physiology functions.


      Negative splitting does require the confidence to believe that you can make up time at the end.  That confidence comes with practicing it in a race setting, which I recommend.




      DIY yoga and 8 "miles" pool-running.  Since I'm within 2 weeks of my marathon, no more studio yoga (and thus, no more exposure to those who think nothing of attending yoga class when sick).

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.


      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


        I agree with Dwave that in order to negative split you have to prepare mentally as well and have the confidence you can pick up late in a long race. I much prefer it to a positive split.


        The workouts that seemed to help me the most were long runs with the last 5-7 miles at MP or faster. That truly got me to the mental zones I needed. I think about those workouts late in a marathon and it’s a confidence boost for sure.

        Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 18:10 (2017), 10k: 38:25 (2017, course was 6.1), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:57:18 (2018)

        Brewing Runner

        3:56 marathoner at heart

          dwave Negative splits ARE nice. I think I'm in the "go race pace for the race" approach for everything. I'll need to look at trying a negative split for maybe a 10K locally.


          keen The two points you made are pretty valid. The difference in holding strong definitely comes from a lot of MP/Tempo training for me as well. I can't believe you're already looking at races. Maybe jump in a 5K on Thursday pushing DD3 around. I considered one but the weather is trash for running with NeRP even with everything I have (BOB, rain shield, cold gear, blankets, etc.) plus I'm going to use the morning to get random stuff around the house done. More miles never hurt anyone....except maybe ace who manages to go sub 3 with like 40 miles a week max.


          Pesto don't worry about the weekly mileage. It took me a while to find time and work out the post race desire to find out what life as a non-runner is like.


          My Week:

          Hit 50 mpw. Kind of my soft goal for the rest of the year as a peak just to maintain marathon fitness. 45-50 MPW seems to be average for a training plan so instead of dropping to 25-30 I figured I should keep what I gained at Chicago. It felt good and my long run went well just casually going for an 8:30 pace. Tried out some Honey Stinger gu and fruit snacks at the start and 45:00 mark. Towards the end I had a friend text me about the NASCAR championship. I told him I'd been running for the last almost 2 hours. Yeah....there is a lot people do other than run like watch tv.


          Weekly Summary
          Monday, Nov 12, 2018 thru Sunday, Nov 18, 2018

          <tfoot> </tfoot>
          Day Miles Pace Description Link
          Tue 6.3 8:40 That time there was simple math, and hard math. strava
          Wed 7.7 8:10 That time I did it for Kyle. strava
          Thu 8.1 8:16 That time the heat is on strava
          Fri 8.0 8:54 That time I should warn you I’m in a race. strava
          Sat 7.2 8:35 That time I had to stop and check on Mark. strava
          Sun 13.0 8:25 That time I hit the big five-OH strava
            50.3 8:28  



          1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

          5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

          10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

          Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

          Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

          Annual Miles 2,121 miles

          *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.


          2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 

          From the Internet.

            Hello 3:20 and beyond! I've been lurking for a few weeks but am cautiously poking my head in for real now. Tentatively taking aim at a <3:20 attempt in a May marathon (assuming tuneups and workouts support it, but everything is pointing in the right direction right now).


            I ran my first BQ in May 2017, got injured that fall (plantar fasciitis) and have had a careful return/buildup this year. Bought a bike and learned to swim, did a TON of cross-training while waiting for my foot to get back to decent running mileage, lost 10 pounds and ran huge PRs all fall: 48:46 10k to 43:28, 21:40 5K to 21:01 on a humid day - hoping to knock that down some more on Thursday, 1:41:15 half marathon to 1:34:33 off of my triathlon/5K training plus a few long runs.


            Doing a short speed block right now and trying something new - indoor track meets! Starting off with a 3000m December 8, possibly attempting a mile and/or 800 in January, then back to marathon business so I can hopefully crush it in May.



              Beryl - was there any specific training purpose behind hitting that mileage?  Or was it a Smax-like "because it's there" thing?




              Well, I have been lurking on Letsrun and thought if I knocked out a few 100 mile weeks I would suddenly be running fast.  But seriously, no training purpose.  My brother set up a fun running group in the area that has a wall of fame with running challenges and I thought I would go for some of them.  One was a half marathon on a microloop, I reset that at .09 per loop.  The next was half marathons in a row (7) and the mileage was just a side benefit (117).  Even though running the half marathon challenge I wanted to get a long run in.  Timing was good for a big week.  Work is slow and the weather is good.


              There was some training benefits.  I have always struggled with the training run in the 10-15 mile distance.  Too far to run fast and to short to run slow.  Now that I did a bunch, I have better mental toughness, and longer tempo runs might come easier.


              Big congrats to Keen and Max.


              2-15-20  Sun Marathon (Utah)

              4-18-20  Zion 100 (Utah)



              Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                White River Marathon Race Report       


                I chose the White River Marathon to make a BQ attempt around just a few criteria: 1: It was within a 3-5 week window after the Wurst Race half marathon, a race I've run since it began (almost annoyingly finishing 2nd all 3 years). For some odd reason I'd just like to keep this completion streak going - I'd certainly like to win it at some point, though! 2: It was the flattest, and hopefully fastest, marathon within driving distance during that time window.


                Toward the beginning of the year I had decided to work a bit more on speed rather than running a marathon and after much asking around had decided on a Daniels plan. I loved how that went and so decided to stick with it for my fall marathon cycle as well. Training went very well aside from a couple down weeks due to sickness (I frequently get sick whenever one of my kiddos so much as sneezes) and I averaged ~73mpw (would have been closer to 78mpw without the sick weeks).


                Things were apparently going a bit too well during the taper, so life tried to intervene - DW and all three kiddos were diagnosed with strep throat between the Tuesday and Thursday before the race. This, combined with some possibly imagined throat soreness, sent me to the doctor as well. The race is nearly a 6-hour drive away and there's no way I wanted to do that if I was just going to be sick for it - much better to just scrap the race and after recovering put in some additional training and focus on a marathon later in the winter. Thankfully the strep test came back negative! Now I just needed to get out of the house.


                The day before the race I made the drive to Cotter, AR. For those of you who have never driven in Arkansas, here's a quick description. Roads seem to do two main things as you get farther into that state: 1, They get narrower, & 2, they get more and more curvy. Roads in Oklahoma pretty much go directly from one town to the next, but here they wind back and forth, up and down over the hills in the Ozarks, taking the longest way possible between two points. Kind of like driving through the Colorado Rockies. Only with less altitude change and with more chicken farms.


                Packet pickup at the school was super-quick, and the "expo" was the smallest I have ever seen - basically a single stand each for shirts, nutrition, and hydration. Not too surprising for a race with marathon/half/5k capped at 750 total.


                Race morning I woke up with quite a bit of sinus congestion, something I dearly hoped was just due to allergies. I took my sweet time taking a shower, eating my usual pre-race stroopwaffle breakfast and getting dressed before loading down my pockets with electrolyte caplets and 6x total gels: One for just before the start, then one for miles 5, 10, 15, & 20, plus an extra just in case I dropped one during the race so I wouldn't have to make the decision to either go back for it or keep going and just skip out on some mid-race calories.


                Weather at the start was just a bit cooler than I wanted at about 34*, but there was zero wind. Figuring that I'd warm up quickly once the sun came up I decided to forego arm warmers, going with just my shorts, singlet, and throwaway cotton gloves and beanie. I had decided days earlier that getting a BQ for 2020 (sub-3:05) was more important to me than pushing for a sub-3, which I thought was within the realm of possibility.


                Being quite a small race, the 5k, HM, and marathon all started at once. Knowing my goal time and having checked race times for several previous years I lined up practically on the line.


                Mile 1. Yes, I think this one deserves its own entry. The first 1/4 mile of the races takes you from the start near the school, across the 2-lane highway/main street of the town, and towards the White River. After that 1/4 the road goes sharply downhill in an S-curve for the next 1/2 mile, losing somewhere between 220-230' of elevation in the process, then flattening out and passing the RV park that serves as the finish for all three races.  The plan here was just to try running the tangents and stay somewhat in control without braking with my quads too much. I found myself running next to a guy in a white singlet and remarked that there's nothing quite like opening a marathon with a mile at 15k pace. I see one spectator just as the road goes downhill - a guy in a folding chair with his feet propped up on a 5-gallon bucket, with another serving as a table for his coffee and newspaper.

                6:27 (all laps manual & based on course markings, which I think were a bit off in cases)


                Settling into an even effort after the screaming downhill I'm still next to White Singlet Guy (WSG), so I strike up a bit of conversation. Turns out he's an art teacher who ran the 10,000 & steeple in college, and ran 2:5x 13 days before, and finding out my goal decides to stick with me for a while so we can pace off each other. It also becomes readily apparent that the race conditions at the start weren't at all representative of what they are now. It was clear and crisp at the start, but with the elevation loss and being right next to the river it's now downright cold (likely below freezing) and foggy - we can only see about 100 yards ahead of us and to the left (west) because of this, and there is a very steep (~45+ degree) GPS-blocking hill covered in trees that starts immediately off the right (east) of the road. From here on out the course is essentially pancake flat.


                Finding out I could chat with WSG at goal pace was something I took as a good sign. Just after mile 1 we passed a guy wearing a hat backwards that said "Run 405", which I recognized as having come from one of the LRSs in town. He was wearing earbuds, so I didn't bother saying anything to him. We were passed by a few people who were running the half, but no one running the marathon, so I figured I had lined up at about the best place possible.


                Miles 2-9: 7:10, 6:48, 7:20, 6:36, 6:47, 7:40, 7:37, 6:45


                I have "lap pace" and "lap time" set to show after each lap and seeing the differences in these values tells me that either the markings are a bit off in places and/or the trees and sharp hill to my right is messing with GPS more than I expected. The effort feels consistent, so I tell myself "no matter, as long as the course ends up being the right distance".


                Things went quite smoothly through here, with the road following the course of the river and curving to the left and I was struck by how quiet everything was. Most of the other racers were either far enough ahead or behind that we couldn't hear any chatter from them, there wasn't much in the way of animal activity other than a few squirrels, and the houses and fishing lodges west of the road were quite sleepy as well. I saw spectator #2 at about mile 6.5 - a woman furiously ringing a cowbell. Perhaps a 1/2 mile after this we hit the first turnaround for the full and half. This gave WSG and myself a chance to count the number of marathoners ahead of us and to see how far ahead of us they were, and it looks like the guy in first isn't feeling too well. We wonder if perhaps he mistakenly got caught up running with people doing the half.


                Miles 10-15: 6:35, 7:12, 6:55, 7:05, 6:59, 7:07


                Just for a change the river (and thus the road) now start moving toward the right. Early here I start to feel a blister forming on a middle toe on my left foot. What the heck?? I can't even remember the last time I got a blister! Especially with a healthy layer of Trail Toes. Since this isn't an ultra-slow ultramarathon there's nothing I can do about this without wrecking my goal time, so I try pushing it out of my mind. It's still super-foggy and cold, but meeting other racers is a welcome sight. All through here hydration (just water at aid stations) and fueling go exactly as I wanted them to, though my fingers are cold enough that it was a bit difficult to fish out the electrolyte caplets from my waist pockets. The temperature has warmed slightly, but as the temp and dew point are still the same I'm having to frequently wipe condensation (not sweat) off my eyebrows and eyelashes.


                Just before mile 13 we start to encounter the marathon leaders who have hit the next turnaround at the half and we see that there has been a change in leader - the guy who was ahead before the last turn looks worse now than before. There's also a tiny little dip in the road here that results in us going up a "hill" that seems disproportionately difficult to its size. Apparently even with all the course-specific training I've done the flatness is getting to me. WSG and I hit the turnaround at the half (within 1/2 second of my arbitrary 3:03:30 goal) and head back onto the road for the last outbound leg and I ditch my beanie since it's starting to warm a bit. Nearing mile 14 brings two big things: 1, my quads start to tighten and hurt. I knew this would happen, but I didn't think it would happen until at least mile 18. 2, we catch up to and pass the former leader. He's obviously having stomach problems as he's doubled over on the side of the road. At mile 15 WSG tells me we'll need to run 6:30's to catch the leaders and that he's thinking of trying to chase them down once we hit mile 16. I tell him to go ahead if he thinks he can, but that I won't follow since that's well beyond my abilities.


                The sun has managed to get clear of the cliff immediately east of the road and the fog starts to burn off and we're able to see much more of the scenery than before, including the river for which the race is named. We also discover the location of an "airport" we have seen signs on the road for when a single engine plane lands on a strip of asphalt that's halfway between us and the river as we pass mile ~15. See an airplane land during a marathon? Check! We're also able to see that several of the houses along this stretch of road have small airplanes parked next to them just like a car would be.


                Miles 16-20: 7:15, 6:57, 7:25, 6:50, 7:06


                True to his word, WSG takes off just as we hit the 16-mile marker. Just before doing so he tells me that he's going to fake stomach issues if he blows up before the finish, and I tell him good luck and that I'll back up his story if I need to. Keeping pace requires a bit more mental effort now that I'm running all by my lonesome, and my quads keep getting a bit tighter and more sore, though they don't feel tired. Happily, my calfs and hamstrings continue to feel just fine. I pass the cowbell lady just before mile 19 and head to the second turnaround, which is at ~19.85 and located about 1/2 mile past the first turnaround for the half and full. The new leader looks like he's doing quite well as does WSG and the guy in 2nd. Interestingly, there's no timing mat or even a race official at this turnaround, so it's completely on the honor system. Mile 20, home stretch! I decide to try a little bit of visualization to help get me through this. I abandon this thought quickly since I've only run one 10k and don't have that course memorized, nor do I have a 10k loop I run frequently. Back to looking at trees that would have been pretty 2 weeks ago before all the leaves fell off and/or turned brown. I try taking my final gel and now run into a problem: my hands are so cold my fingers don't want to work properly. I neglected to further notch my gel packets before the race, so when I try using my teeth to tear the top off it tears at an upward angle - without opening the gel at all. I don't have the dexterity required to re-tear the packet with my fingers (the reason I used my teeth to begin with), so I put that gel back in my pocket and reach for my "extra" gel. Fortunately, I'm able to successfully open this one.


                Miles 21-26.2: 6:58, 7:20, 7:01, 6:49, 6:57, 1:26 (6:25 pace)


                Racers heading back out to the second turnaround are fairly few and far between at this point, though I do start passing more and more people who are heading back to the finish line/full turnaround for the first time. My calfs and hamstrings are still fine (and remain so), but my quads have gotten progressively more tight and sore. I recalled backing off the pace when this happened in the second of my three marathons. Back then I had thought that my legs might cramp (which is why I slowed down) but knowing now that it was to be expected I was able to just push on. In this section GPS pace became completely unusable as it was jumping between 6:30 and 10:30/mi, so I had to completely ignore that while focusing on perceived effort and Stryd.


                Hitting the (half marathon) 10-mile marker I started trying to visualize my hometown 5k course as I kept moving. I was only able to do this for about a mile before I discovered focusing on passing people (all slower marathoners or half marathoners) was more helpful. I tried opening things up and running a bit faster at this point, but my legs just wouldn't do it. This didn't feel like fatigue, but rather that my quads were just saying "no thanks, we're good with how things are now". This wasn't the worst thing in the world since I knew at this point I'd be under the 3:05 BQ time, despite having slowed a little. I was so ready for the race to be over and so focused on the finish that I didn't even notice that tiny little "hill" that seemed oddly difficult the first time around. I went into the small S curve that lead to the finish and heard WSG (who ended up finishing 2nd) yell for me and saw 3:04:low on the clock and pushed as hard as I could, finishing in 3:04:13.


                Overall, I'm thrilled with how the race, and my training leading up to it, went. My slight slowdown (1:31:45 first half, 1:32:27 second half) didn't feel at all like it was due to fatigue or lack of endurance, but rather my quads tightening up as they did (perhaps those are the same, but it felt different at the time). I was able to learn from the mistake of slowing down like I did two years ago when my quads tightened up and relearned how things feel late in a marathon so I think I'll be better able to judge appropriate effort next time.


                My HR was lower for this marathon than for previous ones, which I attribute to both the cold temperatures running at a pace/effort that wasn't at the edge of or beyond my physical abilities. As for my decision to secure a BQ without pushing for a slightly faster time that may or may not have been possible for me, I'm quite glad I did. It was nice to be very happy with my race execution and the overall result and besides, sub-3 is still there and another good training cycle (or two) will make it much more doable.


                Aside from the gel opening mishap, nutrition seemed flawless. I used Maurten gels, and despite the increased cost don't think I can go back to Gu or any other gel. They're unflavored, slightly sweet, and have an actual "gel-like" consistency rather than the thicker syrup-like consistency of other gels and are far easier to take in while at race pace. I also didn't have to time them around water stops at all - they go down and digest fine (for me at least) without it. The one downside to them is that they don't have electrolytes, which is why I was also taking electrolyte capsules (Endurolytes if anyone is curious).


                As for the race itself, it went perfectly smoothly from packet pickup through to the awards and post-race meal. The small number of racers and grand total of two spectators did result in a "solo time trial" type of feel, particularly after WSG took off. For this reason I can't say that I can recommend the race to everyone, since many people I know feel like they need the external motivation provided by cheering crowds or groups of accompanying runners.


                Going forward I don't have any immediate plans except for a turkey trot (running with DW, who has just started running again), and maybe a 10k if I can find one before the end of the year. Speaking of the end of the year, I *might* also be able to hit my stretch goal of 3,000 miles if I'm able to average ~10k per day; I don't see this being a huge priority for me, though. Given that my previous ultramarathon goal races are likely to be interrupted by family trips I have two marathons I'm tentatively eyeing for the spring (Chisholm Trail in March, and OKC Memorial in April), but for the time being I don't have a burning desire to jump into a huge training plan.

                5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18


                Upcoming Races:



                Pace Prophet

                  Nice race report, Keen!  And I think you omitted what I think is the #1 factor in controlling fade: choosing a realistic goal for your fitness. Not that I'm taking credit for your success, or anything...


                  I also felt as though my quads tightened up relatively early in my PR marathon - tight, but not crampy.


                  Welcome Lauren!


                  Good work, Max!


                  I'm running some.  But heading to near Phoenix for mountain biking this week.  Hopefully I'll have some pretty pictures for the Book of Faces.


                  pie man

                    congrats to everybody (just easier that way)!


                    I got out of town this weekend which always makes me feel better.  Also, seems like the entire Bay Area also got out of town as well.  I hit the avenue of the Giants (scouting thr marathon course) and then the lost cost.  That might be my favorite spot I’ve been over there so far,  and the trail is neat.  Now i want to run the whole 25ish miles.  A lot,of sand though, probably 4 out of the 10 miles (5 out, 5 back) that I covered.  Make sure for a long excision. Of course the recommendation is 3 days.  I ain’t got time for that.

                    11:11 3,000 (recent)


                      Lauren - welcome! You do appear to be well positioned for a sub 3:20 and a marathon PR. As you have probably already noticed, there are a few who use the pool and bike for cross-training. You fit right in! Do stick around and post about the track training and races.

                      Beryl - nice big week! My first jump to bigger mileage was 10 miles/day for about 10 days. For me, finding the time gets tricky. We have a local runner that runs about 13 - 14 everyday with a bit longer on the weekend. She regularly hits 90+ miles. And dang if her daily pace isn't in the 7:40 range.

                      Keen - loved the race report! My wife's grandparents live just west of there in Harrison. I've driven those curvy roller coaster roads a few times and had no clue there could be a flat marathon in the midst of them. Maybe I'll try it out one day. It's great you had white singlet guy to work with for so many miles. And subsequently you had good mental strength to keep pushing after he went on. With spotty GPS it would be tough knowing how much to push. Did they have any clocks on the course?

                      I'm looking to up my mileage some to see how I handle it through the next couple of months. I've been at 40+ and occasionally 50+ for a while now. Last week was 47. This week gives a few extra days off work so I can fit in more time to run. Saturday is a half-marathon course preview run. The race is in December and a couple of my running buddies and I are pacers. We may do some pre-preview miles for 20 total. No real need for this, but longer runs help in upping the miles.


                      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                        Lauren - Welcome! Please do stick around.

                        Ilana - Yes, a realistic goal does make a huge difference compared to really pushing for something that may or may not even be possible.

                        Matt - The only clock was to the right of the finish line. The halfway turn for the full was immediately to the left of the finish and I don't remember seeing the clock at all going through there - I just know the half split from the published results.
                        I actually ate in Harrison!

                        And speaking of eating in Harrison, I was just about to hit the road again when I got a video call from DW. She and DD1 were wanting to show off DD3 walking between them (maybe 4 feet!. Maybe 5 hours after leaving and my littlest one takes her first steps. Why couldn't she have waited until the next day, or done it before I left??

                        5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18


                        Upcoming Races:



                        Resident Millennial

                          dwave/pesto- I negative split my first Botulism. I think it's mainly because I was coming back from an injury and not super sure of my fitness, so I started pretty chill - as it appears we should do, regardless. Felt great up Heartbreak and then just rolled the slightly-downhill final 5mi. It's a great feeling to be in control and "alive" on that segment of the course.

                          I would love to get the race confidence to do most of my races this way. Have done two stupidly run (road) races this season, I think because of self-imposed pace pressure. I ran a few XC races this season and executed those much better, I think bc I wasn't checking splits. Hoping to do a better job at CIM!


                          Lauren- welcome, hello! I see we have a new addition to the sub320 cat lady club Big grin Hang around and let us know how your training is going.


                          ckeen- great race report! My first thought is that the "expo" sounds like just my type - spare the crap and just give me my race bib! awesome that you had WSG to work with for so long, and lol @ the "i'm going to fake stomach issues if I blow up." Looks liek the course must have had a bunch of little rollers, based on your splits. That first downhill sounds nuts - CIM starts with probably a 100 ft drop but 200+ is crazy! Major props to maintaining focus in the later miles when it sounds liek you were racing alone. I've never been solo during a marathon adn honestly can't imagine I'd do a great job of staying engaged.


                          PJ- glad you escaped the toxic air, too. there's a great race up where you were in October - Humboldt Half Marathon (and full). It's in mid October and used to be on the PA-USATF circuit, until just last year. (And last year it was in the middle of the Napa fires, so we ended up not going...). That's where jim towed me to what used to be my HM PR. Our team calls the course "downhill both ways" Smile just OAB on Ave of the Giants, beautiful scenery, always cool and a bit foggy.


                          Day 12 of garbage air. Ran on the TM for the nth time. Trying to move up my Thanksgiving flight to this afternoon so I can run outside for an additional day. Supposed to rain/storm Weds-Fri which will HOPEFULLY help put out the fires (only 45% contained or something last I looked) and suppress the smoke.


                          We escaped to Lake Tahoe this past weekend - spontaneous trip that just about all my running friends dropped their plans to come for. We're all depressed. 160 miles east and that was the closest spot with good quality air. I've never been so grateful to be able to go outside, run at altitude, have tight legs, etc. I was pretty sick last week (didn't run 3 days) but felt 80% better after the first night's sleep at Tahoe, in good air.

                          mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58


                            Keen: great recap on the race! It's funny how dramatic it can feel to drop a Gu or, in your case, not be able to open one! Not only will you benefit from a great training cycle and big PR, but that race sounds like it built some mental toughness and "marathon knowledge" for you as well. Congrats again!  There's little breakfast cafe called Connies just outside of Cotter (near Bull something campground) where I always eat on fishing trips. The menu is numbered and I always order the 28 1/2. Worth a stop next time you're there (if that every happens)


                            Lauren: welcome! Do you have a marathon picked out yet?


                            Max: I'm still confused on what you completed this weekend, but I know congrats is in order!


                            As much as I was excited to get into a speed cycle and away from a true marathon cycle, I'm having trouble motivating myself to get out the door in the morning and on the road. My bed was just so cozy this morning, I slept in. The motivation of a 5k PR hasn't been enough to get me going yet. I need to remember this speed cycle will build into further marathon training. I did sign up for the Turkey Trot 5k. Just going to run on feel as I haven't ran faster than a 7:20 mile since the marathon.

                            Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 18:10 (2017), 10k: 38:25 (2017, course was 6.1), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:57:18 (2018)

                            Strict WTF adherent

                              Lauren - welcome


                              Keen - congrats and great recap


                              Everyone - stop encouraging max


                              TIL that a not-insignificant number of people log their race distances according to their Garmin measurements and not the official measurements.

                              Brewing Runner

                              3:56 marathoner at heart

                                ace stay inside where it's warm. Also do nothing less than attempting 6:00/mi pace for the turkey trot. Checkers or wreckers baby!


                                Max I was thinking about you today. A friend asked what there is to do in Durango, CO (sorry ilana) and the logical answer was "Hardrock 100 course."


                                rlk Donner Lake isn't Tahoe...unless you consider "Tahoe" to be "Tahoe National Forest" which no one does...except RAGNAR Tahoe /rant

                                1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                                5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                                10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                                Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                                Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                                Annual Miles 2,121 miles

                                *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.


                                2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me.