2018 3:20 (and beyond) (Read 581 times)


    Hello! I'm another refugee from the RWOL community and I've been hanging in the sub-3 thread mostly. But many of those folks are like deep-diving subs. I did get there in 2015, skipped the full in 2016, then I had an epic fail in Boston last April when attempting sub-3 again. I'm currently training for a March full where I'd like to go sub-3 again, but am not 100% sure that can happen. I've been lurking here and like the training / strength / cross-training discussions, so felt guilty after seeing all the lurker pleas. Y'all mind if I post here too?

    I did a lot of recreational cycling before running, and kept that up some when I started running regularly in summer 2008. The past few years I got more serious about bike commuting, and that is now where the majority of my cycling happens. If I work a full 5 days (no holidays or vacation), I'll usually ride about 130 miles per week (~13 miles one way).

    I do most of my running before work, so this means a 4 to 4:30am alarm, run until 6 or 6:15, eat, shower, and hop on the bike by 7am. Right now I'm running between 60 - 70 miles per week (Pfitzinger 18/70 plan).

    I also try to get to the gym for weight-lifting about 3 times a week. I've been lifting long enough that I don't really get sore from that unless I mix it up or try to go heavier than normal.


    Resident Millennial

      just wanted to drive by and say hi / happy new year!

      have been reading but not much time for more right now. also haven't run since 2017 (ha) - been skiing in CO all week.



      mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58


        Happy New Year!


        E78:  1)  Love the finishers blanket, and 2) OMG your hands!

        E78 & Dwave:  Solid efforts for both.  I struggle with faster running when it gets in the 30s, and seem to get cold weather induced asthma if I push too hard.

        runthechamp:  I've used Daniels a couple of times, but that was from the 2nd edition, and I'm guessing you are using the 3rd, so there may have been some changes.  I used HR to determine marathon pace, and it wound up being slightly aggressive for what I could hold in an actual marathon, for reasons someone else (Dad?) suggested.

        Dad:  That McMillan 6/7 hill workout looks intimidating!


        Hello to the rest of you, and welcome to the new kids on the block.


        I finished 2017 with 2975 miles, the lowest for me since 2012.  I now have enough data to see long-term trends, and since my marathon PR in 2014, my annual mileage has slacked off a little every year.  Not surprisingly, so have my marathon times.  So, I'm hoping to turn that around this year, get a new annual mileage PR, and set myself up for a return to better races.  A few of you listed goals, so here are mine...(is there an introduction thread?  I didn't find one.)


        Mileage:  3650

        Black Canyon 100K:  Perform well in my age group, whatever that means.  And hopefully not almost die of hypothermia in the Arizona desert.

        50M:  ?  I kind of want to run another 50M road race...don't judge me.

        26.2M:  ?  Get back down to sub-3:00ish territory, but realistically that may not happen this year...or ever.

        13.1M Trail:  Depending on where it is, I'd like to go run the USATF trail race again and "defend my title" (haha, that still makes me chuckle).

        Additional stuff:  I've avoided short races for quite a while now.  I should probably get back to doing more of them.

         2/15:  Black Canyon 100K

        ...Insert shorter races here...

        10/4:  Twin Cities Marathon


          DkW ~ Didn't realize that was your coach's 'issue'. Interesting, as I find the track the most injury-prone surface (so much torque on my left ankle -- which is why I do a lot of my outside speed work clockwise on a dirt oval). Fair point about risk/reward at this point.


          TM for me to do some quality. Finally got around to that Mona Fartlek E78's done a couple of time. Good stuff. 2x90", 4x60", 4x30", and 4x15" on (LT-15") w/ equal off segments (LT+15"). Plus an hour 'warm-up' and 15 min c/d.


          Matt ~ Welcome!


          rlk & OMR ~ Glad to see you chime in. (Yes, there's a link to intro thread in first post.)


          pie man

            I did a workout outside Tuesday night.  It was supposed to be tempo-ish but realistically more in the 6:45-6:55 range.  I attribute this to more to the 90 minutes of hard trails I did on Sunday than the cold (it was upper teens with some windchill? I was cold enough after the dog walk to put on gloves, which I ditched after a mile).


            I used the treadmill yeasterday, my suspended gym membership became active again so I'm trying to get my money's worth.

            11:11 3,000 (recent)


              OMR - The program is actually a custom program, from 2015, so I guess it's based on the 3rd edition. A buddy of mine used it for a marathon he had signed up for back then, and since it's relatively low mileage and the paces fit me almost perfectly, I'm just using it right now. I thought about doing some modifications but decided it was better (and easier) to just follow the program 100%. I find it much easier to keep myself accountable that way 

              5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)



                PJ ~ You're crazy (no gloves).


                Saw this from Ryan Hall. I'm intrigued.


                  Dad:  Thanks (how did I miss those links?).  Re: the Ryan Hall workout, I would never have thought of swapping out shoes for the MP portion of the run.  And with the easy portion being only a minute slower than the MP portion, that looks like a tough run.

                  rune:  Ah, OK.  Curious to see how it works for you (and I forgot that the 3rd edition of Daniels is that old already!).

                  PJ:  I'm with Dad on the lack of gloves when it's that cold.

                  matt:  If I had to get up that early to run, I probably wouldn't!

                   2/15:  Black Canyon 100K

                  ...Insert shorter races here...

                  10/4:  Twin Cities Marathon


                  Brewing Runner

                  3:56 marathoner at heart

                    Brewing - you asked about fitting in weights work.  My general rule: upper body and core on easy days; leg stuff on hard days, right after the running workout, to maximize recovery.  Under no circumstances would I do leg strength work the day before a track workout or long run.  And I'd also avoid leg strength work the day after, since you should be using that day to adapt to the stresses from the track workout or long run.

                    This is good advice. Since Hanson's puts intervals on Tuesdays and tempo/strength runs on Thursdays that leaves Friday, Saturday and Sunday. So far I've felt a little too tired to get up and workout in the morning or do it at night before bed. I'm not sure if a 30 minute total body workout would fit under strength workout but I'll see how a Friday-Sunday routine goes soon. I've had these things for over a year and I've never been consistent with using them that I've come to a point of needing to set days to use them and just go with it.


                    This whole 2,018 in 2,108 is really cutting into my apathy. I actually realize running 5.5 miles isn't difficult and factor in longer runs on weekends, if possible, to stay ahead of the curve. Falling 11 miles behind is kind of hard to make up.

                    1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                    5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                    10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                    Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                    Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                    Annual Miles 2,121 miles

                    *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.


                    2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 


                      Hey all,


                      Happy 2018, all. I hope you are healthy and looking forward to a great new year.  Dad's 2750+ elliptical looks pretty damm good to me! To all you long-time 3:20-ers, hello! If you are in the NE, condolences.


                      It's great to see everyone.


                      All good here. My plan is to build from 40 mpw to finishing a spring marathon with a smile. Post celiac and feeling a lot better. My 2017 miles were flat, but a lot faster than 2016, so fingers crossed.



                      m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35


                      Mother of Cats

                        Matt - welcome!  I hear you on the sub-3 and the diving bell.  I've got sub-3 as a medium term goal, but don't feel comfortable in that group (plus, not enough cat talk there).


                        Which full are you targeting?


                        OMR - good to see you back around here.  I'll update the races/goals thread on Sunday evening.


                        RLK - thanks for checking in!  FB - you too!


                        Ryan Hall workout - I guess 10 at MP+1:00, 10 at MP doesn't sound that bad if done in good weather, though would require a fair bit of recovery.  I say that not having it on tap anytime soon.


                        PJ - also shaking my head at the no gloves - it's incomprehensible to me.  But again, I've also got Raynauds.  I do think everybody's got an individual thermostat.


                        8 very easy today (8:48) plus upper body weights and core.  No drills/strides since I couldn't find a good place to do them.

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.


                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


                        pie man

                          Just remember these days when I'm complaining about 70 degree days in March.


                          I felt fine doing and hour in shorts today, but the 1/3 of a block walk to my car from the gym was brutal.  Not sure how that works.


                          horace ashenfelter passed (94!), glad I did the thanksgiving race when he was still kicking.

                          11:11 3,000 (recent)


                          Mother of Cats

                            Just remember these days when I'm complaining about 70 degree days in March.

                            Yup, I'm thinking the same thing.  I still prefer single digits to the 70s.


                            My week: 53 miles plus 16 "miles" pool-running.


                            M: 3.5 warm-up, 5K race in 19:37.  Later did 5.5 easy (8:36)

                            T: 8 "miles" pool-running and upper body strengthwork and core.

                            W: 6.5 very easy to yoga (9:02), yoga, and then 3.5 very easy (8:51) plus drills and strides.
                            Th: 11 miles, including 20 minutes at tempo pace under the Whitehurst.  Followed with leg strengthwork and injury prevention work.
                            F: yoga and 8 "miles" pool-running.

                            Sa: 8 miles very easy (8:49) and upper body strengthwork and core.

                            Su: 12 miles moderate (7:51) and light leg strengthwork and injury prevention work, plus DIY yoga.

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.


                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            Strict WTF adherent

                              Wdw marathon result: eight beers


                                I am wayyyyy behind!


                                Dad4: Greg McMillan loves killing me at least twice a week! Awesome hill workout. To answer your question, I did run on the treadmill 4 times this week. It wasn't for the purpose of heat acclimation (although that's a nice fringe benefit). It was simply too cold for me to run outdoors. I draw the line in anything that "feels like" single digits. That said, looks like it should be about 38-40 degrees for the Houston half so no heat acclimation needed. Fingers cross the forecast holds. Great job on your Fartlek. I did that exact run about two weeks ago, only I ran 3 tempo miles first! That made it extra tough.


                                Runethe: Welcome! Ugh, digestive issues on the run are the worst. Have you tried Generation UCAN?


                                Brewing: My husband is doing almost exactly what you are doing-- adding in weight training on his hard run days. It's a big time commitment on those days but he does his hard run, eats a protein-packed snack, and then spends about 30-40 minutes doing dead lifts and other stuff, mainly for the legs. I think you can get your half time down by April. A lot of fitness can be gained in that amount of time if you are consistent!


                                Commander: Great goals for 2018. I agree that a treadmill will come in handy with having a baby. One of my runner friends got a treadmill the same time his kids (twins) were born and it was a lifesaver for him.


                                Darkwave: I saw that tempo run on Facebook. Wow. Did you find that running in such cold temps slowed you down? And how was the wind that morning? I think I remember you saying you would never go back to the treadmill after you broke your foot. Am I remember that correctly? In January of 2011, I got three stress fractures from too much treadmill running. I now limit myself to no more than 8 miles at a time, and definitely no speed work on it. Unfortunately, I will be in Las Vegas for a business trip the week after Houston, which might require some treadmill time.


                                mattw: Welcome! What marathon are you targeting in March. I think that if your Boston cycle was good last spring, and you bonked due to the heat, that will set you up nicely for a future race. That's what happened to me in Boston 2016. Amazing cycle, bonked, but then my next marathon was a PR by like 15+ minutes.


                                Pepper: Smart call on the treadmill.


                                Jim: Hello there!


                                RLK: Hi to you!


                                OMR: My respiratory system goes nuts when I run hard in anything below freezing. After the race I was sneezing my head off with an extreme runny nose. And then when I did my intervals two days later, the same thing happened. 2,975 miles is A LOT. Hard to believe that is low for you! Great goals for 2018.


                                - - - - - - - -

                                Here's my week. Officially 50 miles, as my Garmin was a little short on the treadmill. But who's counting!?  One race, one hard workout, one medium-long run. The other 4 runs were on a treadmill. Just one week until Houston! Goal is 1:30:43, because that is exactly 20 minutes faster than my 2008 time in that race.


                                Weekly Summary
                                Monday, Jan 01, 2018 thru Sunday, Jan 07, 2018

                                <tfoot> </tfoot>
                                Day Miles Pace Description Link
                                Mon 2.4 8:42 Warm up strava
                                Mon 3.2 6:40 12 degrees and windy. strava
                                Mon 0.5 9:33 Cool Down strava
                                Tue 7.5 9:20 Treadmill strava
                                Wed 1.6 8:29 Warm up strava
                                Wed 6.4 7:19 20 x (1 min hard, 1 min easy) 7 x (30 secs hard, 30 secs easy) strava
                                Wed 0.8 9:02 Cool Down strava
                                Thu 5.7 9:33 Treddy strava
                                Fri 7.1 9:17 Treadmill again! strava
                                Sat 4.0 9:18 Tread lightly strava
                                Sun 10.7 8:20 The great outdoors! strava
                                  49.9 8:39    

                                26.2 x 26 (3:15:34 PR)

                                13.1 x 33 (1:30:58 PR)

                                Author of the book Boston Bound

                                Up Next: Boston Marathon 2020