Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Dad: Have you noticed a difference doing the lunge matrix and leg swings?
Yes. Definitely more mobility in the hip. I think my stride is a little more relaxed when I'm tired too and I gained a little muscle in my glutes.
SMax ~ Tell Sam to post here.
CDR K ~ March 4: 5K (tune-up); March 16: 3000m (USATF Masters Indoor Championships)
R&BNick ~ Welcome (back, sorta)
jaimegu: Nice tempo run!rlk: I hate it when I chaff in my shorts.fb: Interesting theory about running too many miles over a few years and having worn myself down. I admittedly felt sluggish heading into this, but attributed that to not running enough and losing fitness. Perhaps my muscles were trying to tell me something? I don't know. I have a lot of theories: a pinched nerve. a muscle imbalance. an alignment issue in my hips/back. the impact of osteoarthritis. getting old. laziness.
Dad: Nice even Steven workout! I agree about the increased importance of balanced mobility as you get older. And perhaps I am now at the age where it is no longer an option, but a necessity. dex: My left side is always more susceptible than my right, due to decreased ankle mobility from an injury in high school, and osteoarthritis in my hip. I don't think we quite made it up to 40 the other day, but still, it was pretty gorgeous out.max: You're welcome. You wouldn't want me to pace you, unless you are thinking about a 30-minute mile. Good luck on Saturday. You might see me out there somewhere...
A bit of a slower than normal morning at work, so I have a bit of time to catch up.
OMR - I do hope things get better and a solution is found. Getting back to running in March wouldn't be too bad. I may have missed it, but did you have a planned race during the first half of the year? Grandmas?
ace - great 800s! Very impressive pace, I did 5 of them yesterday at 2:45-2:50.
fb - I think I read yesterday on the Paris Marathon FB page that there were only 500 bibs left.
ck - that's a very demanding HM plan! I remember using a Daniels HM plan last year for a March HM. I was only able to do 8 weeks of it due to a broken toe, and maxed at "only" 50 miles, but still found it helped a lot. I think, If all goes well and DD3 cooperates, I think a (big) PR is coming.
dad - great workout!
dad, rlk - kudos to you two for racing on a track. I would never be able to.
welcome back runandbikenick! We have to agree on a shortened version of that name.
chafing - also use good ol' vaseline. It seems to work for me.
DkW - hope it was only tired legs and overdressing!
Hi to everyone else! I probably missed a lot, so I apologize in advance.
5K - 18:03 (5.18) | 10K - 37:58 (2.18) | HM - 1:20:45 (9.18) | FM: 2:57:59 (10.18)
One leg squats on a foam incline board both ways. It's a miracle.
Pesto -- thanks! I just worked out that Rome is also on April 8th, and it's an easy train ride. We'll see!
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
Dad: it was full recovery rep work, rest was 2:30
Oregon: it is the Knoxville Marathon where I live. I'm biased, but think it's a great course. A little on the hilly side, though.
7 mile hill run yesterday. Hills hard, flats and down easy. Overall 8:10 pace with 650' gain, last mile was essentially a flat cool down.
6 miles easy this morning. I had my headlamp off for parts where there weren't any cars because the low clouds allowed the local light pollution to provided enough light to not fall, but not even to see a SKUNK!! I got within 10-15 feet before I stopped abruptly! Of course it ran up the road I was planning to run, so I had to re-route. Glad I didn't get sprayed!!
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
On the road in MN
Ace - yikes skunks - i come back from runs smelling enough... don't need a skunks help! lol I never headlamp up on my morning runs - but usually with another guy so we have enough safety lights and noise to hopefully ward them off.
Oregon - I always think about doing more short high rep intervals... but I just never get around to it! I suppose good for economy and form. what type of race pace would you say you do them at? I ran grandmas last spring (second marathon) - great local marathon option for me.
DWave - I know all my winter runs things sure get tough outside - having an extra few pounds (and resistance to movement) sure makes the heart rate and effort go up at a given pace! One of the couple reasons I have been doing my Tuesday and Thursday workouts of the week on the treadmill at the gym. Makes it easy to do a structured workout and/or Hills...plus its much easier to figure out what to wear!
Pesto/Ace - nice speed work , I have a hard time getting interested in doing much 400-1000m intervals once my mileage gets higher... lol glad I had a speed phase last Oct when I was targeting a 5k PR while on pretty low mileage.
after yesterday mornings good Threshold run - keeping up my winter goal of hitting the weights this winter (hard to do much muscle building in prime outdoor season in the spring/summer) last night with a good full upper body lift followed by 25minutes of easy spin bike to help keep legs loose.
This morning almost turned into a rest day with the return of the cold weather -2°F/-10°windchill... and tired. Decided to stick with an easy 4 miles with my running neighbor - felt decent.
5k: 19:29 Oct'17 26.2: 4:03 Oct'15 3:22 Grandmas June'17 Upcoming: Grandmas Marathon June'18
Cobra Commander Keen
Nick - Welcome back. I couldn't tell too much from the treadmill workout. Are you using Stryd? If so, I'm guessing not using it for pace/distance for your watch. Based on the written description of the workout your recommended paces are quite similar to my own. Personally, I don't have the endurance yet to run a marathon at the Daniels pace indicated by any of my other races, but obviously YMMV.
Max - Hi. I've tried SNB, and it is pretty good. For my money I prefer 2Toms, though.
Pesto - How's the family doing?I know I'm only two weeks in, but this plan seems to suit me. It feels challenging, but certainly doable. I may say otherwise in a few weeks, though, as the paces pick up.
Ace - Glad you didn't get sprayed. I've had my fair share of close encounters as well. The skunks really haven't seemed too excited to spray when I've been around, thankfully. Though last week when I got to the track for my workout the first thing I noticed was the faint odor of skunk.
After being used to running in the dark and in sub-30* weather yesterdays short mid-day, 75* run was quite a bit tougher than it should have been.
All this talk of dead lifts and injury prevention makes me feel inadequate.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Keen - I'm hoping my 2-3x treadmill runs in the warm gym keep me somewhat ready for spring weather... lol Last years trip to the grand cayman in early march was quite a shock to my system!!!
The pace graph is from my Garmin watch - has a cadence sensor, which it tries to use for distance/pace calc while indoors. It isn't bad if i am near my easy paces... but once i get near marathon pace or faster... its WAY off!
I guess at this point in training (17+wks out) my goal MP... doesn't really effect much of my training, besides the occasional medium long pace run... or a few miles of MP in the later half of a long run. Later on in training when I'm doing long sections of it - it will soon be apparent if i have the endurance to hold 7:05 late in a long run (and see what kinda heart rate drift i'm seeing). Based on the Maclin race predictor that has the aggressiveness setting by MPW... looks like an impossibility... LOL With a hypothetical 1:29 HM (6:47/mi) (..probably also doubtful...) - gives a 3:10 Marathon on 'moderate' setting...(50-65mpw)....
I just hope starting back up my 3-6hr+ bike rides this spring help bolster some leg strength and aerobic beast mode. Was shocked how well my body took to riding 5 to 10hr rides last fall - interested to see how it effects marathon ability.
Speed Surplus
dad- ooh, training for track! i'm doing my first track meet in something like 8 years this weekend (in jim and our new 320er rune's neighborhood). thinking of the 1500, 800, and 3200, though I would ditch the 8 if the schedule seems a bit type. i am quite nervous - not sure why. track feels more intimidating - there's nowhere to hide!
Tripling?!
I've run a couple of all-comers meets in the past few years. I agree - they're very stressful at first. The atmosphere brings me back to high school and I get that crazy surge of adrenaline and butterflies before the race.
It was all I could manage to do one event at each meet (I've done the mile twice, the 400, and one 5k) - tripling sounds super ambitious!
5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12
Resident Millennial
sclever- yeah, tripling is probably dumb. the 1500 is early in the meet and 3200 is almost last, so i will do those two! i know the feeling you describe - i have butterflies already!!
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
Ace - good thing you didn't get sprayed! That'd have been no good..
RunNBikeNick - welcome! That morning workout sounds cold..
Keen - if it makes you feel better I haven't done anything for lifting or injury prevention, other than soak in some epsom salt...
Rlk - props on a track meet. That would terrify me!
This week has gotten so screwed with, but I did two runs on Tuesday, 4 miles today, and will do 16 tomorrow. Shooting for around 35 again. DH is out of town with our son, which is so weird. I haven't been alone in my house in around 2 years.
PRs: HM: 1:32:59 (2015); FM: 3:18:36 (2017)
Problem Child
There's a million definitions of "tempo", but most seem to default to either "run 20 minutes at the pace you could hold for about an hour" or "run 1/3rd of the distance you could hold at that pace" so....5K at 15K-10 mile pace, 4 miles at half-marathon pace, etc. By any definition, you would never do 20-30 minutes at 5K pace unless your 5K time was significantly slower than 30 minutes.
So I think I pretty much did exactly this today. 3 mile warm up. 10 minutes aiming for 7:10 pace. 3:30 jog (convenient landmark) then a 15 minute 7:00 pace because it had more flat/downhill in it. I figured since I was doing 7:00 pace for most of the downhill I should push it to 15 minutes to make up for being assisted downhill for probably 5 minutes total. The goal was 7:10 pace and the first one felt a little tough. The second one felt easier but I'm not sure how it would go for a full hour or even a 10K just because I haven't raced in so long. I can only think of one 10K locally, which I might race for training paces, that's about as flat as I'd call a race here. 7:10 pace seems to fit a lot of training calculators using a 20:40 5K.
dad 60 miles a week is a LOT for 17 weeks. That's pratically marathon training. Also, that ladder workout thingy you did....torture. I don't think I could hit 5:46 pace if I TRIED. What is your 10K goal?
Nick Yeah I had the same goal of doing weights. I'm HOPING next week will actually allow me enough motivation to start.
Katia I'll probably feel the same way as you in a few years. Right now I'm trying to figure out when I'll be able to run when I stay home. Maybe he will start to sleep more during the day so I can get some treadmill miles in.
max good luck this weekend. Tell Jam Jam I said hello. He doesn't know me. Oh and I saw Mr. Walmsley ran here in November...the one day I didn't want to do trails. He came down the start of our run and I'd have FLIPPED if I saw him. "Run's over guys...I'm going to drink beer with Jim." makes a good title right?
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
I haven't been alone in my house in around 2 years.
Hopefully you can enjoy it!
Brew ~ Hmm, good question ... 39 something.
SMax ~ Good luck.
Ace ~ I've had the same skunk near-encounter; think I had the same reaction.
Spring yesterday; winter tomorrow. So weird.
Mother of Cats
No kidding.
Smax - good luck this weekend. I have some race chart updating to catch up on.
OMR - the ankle-hip injury connection is something I've dealt with also. The body really is a system - imagine that.
Pesto - good to have you stop by!
FB - that exercise sounds killer, I may test it. I have started to add pistols to my routine (I can't do full pistols yet)
Ace -- you are getting ridiculously fast (of course, that applies to a lot of people on this thread)
R+BN (that's your acronym) - -2 is far below what we face here. 10-15 degrees is usually our floor. I don't do treadmills, not because of personal dislike, but because my coach generally discourages them, and because when we are "allowed" to use them in very cold weather, I'm nervous about injury risk from suddenly introducing a large volume of treadmill running.
CK - perhaps it's not you that is inadequate, but our hips and glute engagement that are below par, and need assistance.
SC and RLK - I never ran track in HS or College, and I still pick up on that tense nervous vibe.
KK - I hope you can enjoy the peace and quiet.
Brewing - nice tempo. To be clear (in that 3:20 way), most training programs advise that if you break up a steady tempo into intervals and don't speed up the pace, you should keep the recovery shorter. More like 90 seconds or so. Daniels is a good read on the why of this. That being said. my training group always takes a longer recovery, but we also do "cruise intervals" at a faster pace than we would a steady tempo.
There's also the very good point that these are finer details, and the more important part is that you did good work for a solid period of time without overdoing it.
****
10 miles for me today (9:22 pace) plus drills and 4 short hill sprints, and then some DIY yoga in the afternoon. Got 21 miles progressive on tap for tomorrow. We may be getting snow in the DC area this week, so we adjusted my schedule for a Saturday long run.
Also checked my breathing - looks like I am having a mild asthma flare - not as bad as previous ones, but enough to probably have been another cause for feeling sluggish. So back on small dose of pred for a few days.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
dwave- ruh roh. xolair not helping?