Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Well, I have no idea what the hip issue was, but I went out again this evening and over 5.5 miles it bothered me on maybe 5 steps. So weird. I'm wondering if it was combination of falling asleep on the couch during figure skating and trying the stretch FB posted. SO, I'll just blame it on FB and the olympics and call it a day.
Was supposed to do 2x200, 5x1200, 2x200, but I was running in my dark and hilly neighborhood, so just did 4x5:00 pickups based on effort. Was going to 5x5:00, but hip felt a little tight (but no pain) on #4, so I decided to shut it down. All in all a weird day, but really glad I was able to go tonight. I'll push tomorrow mornings run to the afternoon and see how it goes.
Matt: your picture confirms for me that I would not be a runner if I lived in MN. I'd be a curler.
RLK: I've always wanted to try XC skiing. I currently don't live somewhere to do that, but maybe one day.
Dwave: I agree, it is tough to shut it down sometimes. Glad I did today. I generally make better decisions when I don't listen to my "inner HS-er", especially when it comes to diet.
Sam: good to see you back!
Pesto: you guys were a well spaced 1, 2, 3. Nice race.
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
Funny you mention it, but I've been doing that hip flexor stretch (and doing some strides) and I feel all messed up. Sore and tight at the same time, and how I run feels all messed up. Excellent. I've decided to think of it as a positive -- if I hadn't tried for "strength and flexibility" (just shoot me now), I would have been stuck in "old man shuffle hell" forever. It may not work, but at least it's different.
Signed up for Rome on April 8. Now all we need is a dog sitter.
Matt -- nice picture. Time to stop complaining about the Siberian storm over Europe.
Pesto -- excellent time trial; you are primed for Paris.
DW -- that's a great workout. Run to the gym, do good stuff, run home.
Sam -- great to see you. Are you in Pittsburgh?
RLK -- DD1 is doing lots of snowboarding this winter, and I worry she's going to crash and get hurt. :-( Skiing's a blast, but a little scary.
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
Ace: weird about the hip issue, but glad it seems to be clearing up on its own. Maybe it's sympathy pain for all the figure skaters who were falling on their hips on the ice.
FB: My oldest son is a snowboarder also - he's up at the mountain today - and it's better if I don't watch, I think. I ski a lot but that seems so much more reasonable. Good news on Rome - I bet that's a really interesting marathon to run!
Katia: interesting on the group treadmill runs - our gym doesn't have anything like that. I can see how it would make the time go by faster though.
I got up to run this morning at 6 but it was pouring rain and 33 degrees, so I went back to bed instead. It was really just too miserable out. I'm going to go out this afternoon for 7ish or so. I ran 7 yesterday morning early and it was the coldest it's been here all winter - 19 degrees. My watch quit half way through - I don't know if it was just a low battery issue or the cold. It's done that once before. Annoying.
Mother of Cats
That's gotta be a hell of a stretch if it took out two of us. Hope you both mend soon.
Oregon - perhaps your watch needs a pep talk? And I'm amused that you consider 19 degrees superior to 33 and rain. For me, they're tied.
Did 16 miles, including 2x5 at MP-ish, one mile recovery in between. Splits for the two were:
Set 1: 34:14 (6:55/6:56/6:48/6:50/6:45 - 6:51 average)Set 2: 33:55 (6:48/6:50/6:48/6:45/6:44 - 6:47 average)
Felt like I could have done more and wasn't going to the well, which is always my goal in MP workouts. Was in a bit of a rush after, so did a bit of recovery swimming but skipped the injury prevention stuff at the gym.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Y'all is confused. Nick posted the iceman photo, not Matt. He just replied to me also. I have had that 60+ degrees each morning with highs in the 70s. I did just eat a bowl of ice cream though.
Easy 6 miles this morning. Twenty tomorrow.
pie man
Flubber shoes went big at Tokyo. Anybody still think they don't have an effect.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
a) by "Flubber" I assume you mean "Vaporfly".
b) not sure what exactly you're referring to in Tokyo. I saw the marathon results/discussion on LetsRun - lots of fast times, PRs, and a national record on a fast course in great weather. Amy Cragg took 6 minutes off of her previous PR, which was also run in the Vaporfly...
c) you're making a straw man argument . I don't know of anyone who claims the Vaporfly "doesn't have an effect." Of course they do. The shoes that we wear affect our performance. That's why we wear flats or spikes or trainers or trail shoes. That's why we debate which shoe we're going to wear in our marathons. But...while they are a good shoe, they're not the equivalent of a motor on a bicycle.
d) good luck this morning!
On the road in MN
Oregon - that is one upside to running in the winter - don't need to worry about RAIN! :-)
Ace - it is awesome to hear that your injury turned around quick.
Matt - good luck with your 20 today! Feels like it has been forever since I did a 20...(it has! lol)
DarkWave - that is a nice layout to a MP run LR - typically I put them all together (later in run) and end up running much less total miles at MP as a result - I think doing them as too sets makes good sense especially as building up to it. Doing 4-5 MP at once - vs 3 and 3 for instance to build up more miles while maybe being 'easier' as they are not consecutive.
ME - do to freshsnow melt, refreeze, I skipped out on outside due to ice. Feel like my achillies/PF/calf/shin issues are clearing so don't want to push it in weird footing yet. So did a medium effort treadmill long run - 2hr/15mi/800' - had around ~9mi at around 7:35/mi w/incline (nearly MP 'effort') - and 3 wu and a few interspersed sections at 8-9:00/mi. Felt like it was a good use of the 2hrs I had....
In reading 'Running Science' - he has pointed to the 2hr saturation point of aerobic benefits - where once a run gets that long... instead of running another miles easy and run 2hr 8minutes... you really should run the whole workout faster or more fast portions to fit within the 2hrs. Anyone else put much credence to this? He didn't put much emphasis on that section... but it struck me. Kind of goes along with a lot of the other sections of the books - where he emphasizes intensity, threshold, intervals... as a way for improvement in moderately to well trained athletes.
Got another 7" or so last night, but the country road should be plowed for running - so probably get a sunny and beautiful easy 5-7mi run in with DW before lunch! Can't wait!
5k: 19:29 Oct'17 26.2: 4:03 Oct'15 3:22 Grandmas June'17 Upcoming: Grandmas Marathon June'18
Problem Child
brew- oh wow, is all your speedwork on roads then? yeah you could def do that workout on roads. i think because we do track stuff so often, it's drilled into us that we're running faster paces when we get down to the track.
I'd say 99% of my speed work is on roads. I've done a little on a track but I have HAD enough flat-ish roads near the house, or work, where I can do it. Downside is it's all GPS based because I'm not about to get a measuring wheel and spray paint markings on the road...although I could. In the 5k article dw sent me that I'm following it actually mentions getting OFF the track for speed workouts BECAUSE people get so focused on time or something.
"To avoid the trap of training by pace, we go off-track for our workouts, running on the trails or the road. This eliminates the temptation to check split times during our reps. It also allows us to practice adjusting for race-day variables: weather, terrain, our fatigue level, etc. The ability to adjust for variables is essential to race-day success."
So I've pretty much accepted doing speed work on the roads using GPS as a "better" alternative because it's convenient and resembles race day more than a track. I've done SOME on tracks but by the time I drive to the track and drive home it's 20 more minutes. Kind of makes a difference when that could be my warm up and cool down.
katia I'm loving all the parenting advice and input I get. I couldn't be a stay at home dad because even at this age there is a lot of "unknown" like "How long will he sleep? What could I get done? When can I eat?" on top of wanting to keep the house somewhat organized and me sane. Oh and good job figuring out the cold runs. I had to do the same and I'm still missing a pair of gloves I REALLY like.
ace I agree with keen on the books. My wife is a BIG book reader. I think our kids will find out what a tablet is when they're like 15. Oh, and figure skating....intersting.
oregon I think I'd enjoy cross country skiing but at the same time I'd probably just spend the money buying running snow shoes or using the yaktrax I have if I wanted to run on snow.
dw those "step ups" sound just like the "runner sprints' in the TRX book. Multiple forms but pretty much push off one foot while lifting the other knee into your chest. I never considered them as a flexibility workout.
16x200 seems like a popular workout this week. It was on my "schedule" for Friday and considered doing it yesterday but passed. I don't understand "This isn't about testing pace. It's about solidifying our stride efficiency at 5K effort" from the website. I also haven't done, and don't do, many "stride efficiency" drills like high knees or butt kickers. Maybe I would if I had a coach telling me to. 20*400 is the next speed work at 5K pace. I'm not sure I'll be able to get that in during the day.
treadmill Mine is from 1989. Free off craigslist. It doesn't even have a place for holding a water bottle let alone pre-programmed runs. It's all manual and I'm 95% sure if I run at 6.2 mph for an hour I WON'T run 6.2 miles. I also found out the Garmin "run indoor" setting on the watch doesn't work if you don't move your arms. Check your pace and it starts to slow your average pace down. Slightly annoying. Also slightly annoying is running 6.4 mph and getting different lap times for each lap. It's as bad as running outside.
Aiming to get 40 for the week. Yesterday felt great to be outside. Weather said 30 with 15 mph winds but it was more like 35 and a breeze. I was a LITTLE over dressed but not by much. Decided I wanted to go outside after considering another hour or more on the treadmill. Had to squeeze it in during a nap while the wife was home (still sick) and she took a nap. I was almost able to get 8 in but I HAD to leave the house at noon and didn't return until 7:00. I considered getting a few treadmill miles but NeRP had other plans. Short naps all night long until about 11:00pm when he FINALLY slept more than 45 minutes. Hopefully he naps longer so I can get the rest of the 40 miles I need (want) this week. I'm so far behind 2018 in 2018 it's sad.
Fun Fact: I told a local runner/RD to try some Bells Two Hearted when I saw she was in Nashville for a run. She asked for suggestions in Sante Fe and Flagstaff. Being the "funny guy" I am I tag Jim Walmsley and say he could list some places totally expecting nothing to come from it and just joking since Jim lives in Flagstaff. A couple hours later he came with a beer suggestion, mini trail condition report and advice on where to go and who to talk to about finding other runs. TOTALLY cool. I still wish I'd have bumped into him in November when he was by my work.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
a) by "Flubber" I assume you mean "Vaporfly". b) not sure what exactly you're referring to in Tokyo. I saw the marathon results/discussion on LetsRun - lots of fast times, PRs, and a national record on a fast course in great weather. Amy Cragg took 6 minutes off of her previous PR, which was also run in the Vaporfly... c) you're making a straw man argument . I don't know of anyone who claims the Vaporfly "doesn't have an effect." Of course they do. The shoes that we wear affect our performance. That's why we wear flats or spikes or trainers or trail shoes. That's why we debate which shoe we're going to wear in our marathons. But...while they are a good shoe, they're not the equivalent of a motor on a bicycle. d) good luck this morning!
There was a post from someone perhaps in the RW days that was along the lines of 'they seem like they might have an effect but we need time to really tell.' I'm following up on that remark. Does that get me out of rhetoric jail?
Thanks, race went pretty well. I have run faster there, but I figured sub 1:07 was realistic on that course in my current shape. Cut back all week to try and get the freshest legs possible. With the chip, I was 1:06:59.xx.
Team won under 40 men but lost to GRC for everything else. We are missing a few folks due to injuries and our women's side is not what it has been in the past. But pretty nice morning (if you ignore the weather).
Flubber -- to quote Max, we grew up in a box and our parents brutally murdered us every day. So I run on pieces of cardboard held together with used shoe laces.
Oregon -- yes, sometimes just not looking is the best idea. DW and I had lots of discussions when the kids were growing up as to what is a "sprained ankle" and what is a "cracked head". Not sure where snowboarding fits. haha.
Matt -- oops on the misdiagnosis. Have fun on the 20 and enjoy the non-snow.
PJ -- nice. Shooting for 1:07 and hitting 1:06:59 seems good to me.
Ace -- this is starting to feel like a HS science fair experiment. I can definitely feel that I am moving the push-off load toward my hip flexors, moving ii away from my feet/ankle/calf. Not sure where the glutes fit in yet. So the hip flexors are seriously sore, but in a muscular way, not damage. Who knows, but hopefully there is "strength and flexibility" in there somewhere. I am also concentrating on that "lean forward from your ankles" thing that that comes from "Chi running". It's pretty funky at this point. Hope you are having fun with it!
DW -- looking into "step ups" and engaging the glutes. What the heck do your glutes do when you run (other than hold your core in place)? They're big muscles, so they must be useful. Right?
Katie -- hit those calf lifts and good luck with the achilles.
Funny thing here. 18@7:55 yesterday with 1,000 ft gain and the last 10@7:35. If 7:35 my MP, that's a 3:18. hahahahahaha. No way. I had four days at 4, as DW and I took a trip, so I was rested, but the week before I had a fast-sh 10 and a pretty good 18. But I definitely don't have the mileage to hold on for the last 10K.
Maybe I need to focus on endurance, not speed. Any advice?
4@7:58
5@7:56
3@7:59
3@7:53
4@8:05
18@7:55
7@7:57
44.5@7:57
Run More.
PJ ~ Solid race. That Club Challenge is an impressive field, pretty much skim off the top 10% of an average race.
Matt ~ Ice cream!
DkW ~ Another impressive LR.
Ace ~ Careful w/ the hip; still a good w/o.
Sam!
R&B Nick ~ What a pic.
Pesto ~ Strong "10K". Again, I hate mismeasured/mismarked courses.
My week:
M) 11 w/ 10' tempo (3' rec), 6x1' 3-5K w/ 1' rec, then 10' tempo
Tu) 6
W) 6
Th) 11 w/ 2x1.5 @ 5K (although I was sluggish/6:18 pace) w/ 400m jog
F) Rest ... first day off this year
Sa) 7.25
Su) 9.75 w/ 3x3x400 (5K-3K pace)
Total: 51
FB: Enjoy the sub-8 miles, and run more! I've been doing the core exercises as well, and the few times I have attempted running (for less than 100 feet), I didn't know what to do with my muscles...it all felt weird.
Sam: Good to hear you are back into training.
Run/BikeNick: Where in MN are you...by the Twin Cities? I see you're running Gma's (again). One of my favorite marathons (it's been good to me).
Three weeks after shutting things down and focusing on stretching/strengthening, I haven't seen any improvement around my knee. Making an appointment tomorrow...starting to think my meniscus is torn or worn out.
Daniels, at least in the 2nd edition, caps runs at 2:30, noting that increased injury risk outweighs aerobic benefits after that amount of time. I think it's pretty individual. For me, I extended those runs to about 2:45 or 2:50 for marathon training. I would also say that for me, two hours would seem short for a long run, but that may be targeted toward runners who don't spend more than 2:30 on their feet in an actual marathon. And I am not one of those people.
Run More. PJ ~ Solid race. That Club Challenge is an impressive field, pretty much skim off the top 10% of an average race.
It really is, for this day and age it's pretty special. Just racing for pride and glory.
since y'all mentioned books, did you see that Book Club Track Club podcast by Merb and Alexi Pappis? It's on the first book, but seems to be getting traction in the elite community.