2018 3:20 (and beyond) (Read 582 times)

CommanderKeen


Cobra Commander Keen

    Jim - It's been a while. How've you been?


    Max - I think option numbero uno is best. Any exercises to improve the weak muscle?


    FB - From my understanding one typically has about 7 years to really improve, after which that flattens out then starts to decline. As for the decline, the speed part goes away faster than the endurance aspect, all most typically a gradual degredation. Dropping off the cliff can happen, as others have said. With some digging I could probably find the articles I got that from.


    DWave - Thanks for the Slowtwitch link. That could prove useful in the future.


    Pesto - DD3 is doing pretty well, also only waking up a couple times (most) nights. Her gas issues have always been worse at night, but she seems to be largely past it. Good luck on the race!


    This weekend's forecast is looking "interesting". A decent chance of snow on Saturday morning, then mid-50's by race time (2pm) on Sunday.

    5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

     

    Upcoming Races:

     

     

    oregonrw


      Max: Sorry to hear about the hamstring problem, and sounds like you already know what option you'll choose.  If there are other things you'd rather be doing in future Aprils, then getting that 10 year streak doesn't really matter.

       

      Keen: I don't think your governor helped anything with the strike with her recent comments...hopefully it resolves soon.

       

      Dad: interesting numbers.  It looks like the drop off is about the same from 40 to 50 and 50 to 60 -- just over a minute. For ten years that doesn't seem like a dramatic change -- more gradual, to me anyway.  I'm still hoping I can set at least one PR at 50.

       

      Darkwave: Agree that aging + injury + time off leads to significant drop in fitness. Every time I drop my mileage (like after a marathon, for example) it seems harder to get back to previous levels of fitness, and that's without an injury. I think older runners probably need to be more consistent and also keep up speed work to not have to work so hard to get fit.

       

      Katia: I'm with you on the 4-5 inch heels. For years I ran around in those daily, because I liked being tall(ish) in court. I've given them up mostly, in part because I'm not in court every day anymore and in part because my feet hurt now.  But I swear at one point I could have run a marathon in 4 inch heels (with pointy toes!). I do think wearing them that much contributed to my now super tight calves.

       

      FB: I think I've read that stat in regards to runners who start as adults too.  I'm not sure what they judge as "starting" though -- like, never run before? started running marathons?

       

      5 recovery miles this morning, which felt good after a tempo yesterday.  I'm tired. DS had a track meet last night, which was really fun to watch but boy, high school track meets can go on forever.  We didn't get home until after 9 and I'm usually about ready for bed by then.  So I was up late (for me) and up early (to run).  Tonight will be an early night!

      fb-guy


        Max -- a lot of folks have chimed in, so I will be selfish. I hope we are both in Botswana next year. On the hamstring thing -- in a sense it is both. The muscle imbalance and the mileage. Without both, neither one would have got you. My thinking is that this shows how strong, flexible, balanced, etc. you have to be to do the (crazy) things that you do. Without all that mileage, you would never have even known about the weakness/overcompensation issue.

         

        OMR -- Good Luck Tomorrow!!! Let us now how it goes.

         

        Jim -- I thought about you when I was writing about the 10 year lifetime PR thing. You have really hit it out of the park at year 10. Really great. And I fully agree with your idea about being careful enough, and doing what it takes to stay on the road. Not being able to run would truly suck; my two year brush with really awful running was bad enough.

         

        If we get beat up enough trying to run fast, there's always trail ultras. Some of the old guys do those things all the times; week after week. They don't have the recovery time of a marathon or a half. It's in our futures.

         

        Dad/Katia -- not sure what constitutes fade vs. crash, but I know I don't want to crash. The fall-off in the 3,000 is pretty consistent per five years, so I guess that's not too bad. I think that means ever more strength, stretching and rolling in the years to come; to stay strong enough to stay on the road.

         

        Barstow crew -- enjoy the taper!

         

        Katia, Oregon -- 5" heels? Ouch. I always wondered if that hurt.

        m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35

        Katia77


           

           Katia, Oregon -- 5" heels? Ouch. I always wondered if that hurt.

           

          For me, 4 inch pointy toe heels are fine - at my former job I used to wear them almost daily (like Oregon said, I was in court a lot).  I wore them at 39 weeks pregnant, no issues. I haven't found a way to make 5 inch designer heels comfortable. Tolerable, but not comfy.  That one inch makes a difference, apparently.

          PRs: HM: 1:32:59 (2015); FM: 3:18:36 (2017)

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

            ace Yeah I'm here. Not lurking, just not running or able to check and post.

             

            Max I'm going to be the one who says skip it. Simply because being injured for the rest of the year for all the races you may, or may not, have planned would be much worse. Plus you just said you're looking for a reason to quit doing it for all those OTHER April races you have.

             

            Katia I LOVE seeing how your son is growing. I get an occasional laugh and "ohshit" moment for what's to come. I'm hoping I have the same come back ease as you did but then again, I'm older, not a former NCAA athlete, and just a man.

             

            NeRP, DW and I got sick between Hawaii and home. Wife just go OVER being sick which kinda sucks. I started working on the truck because I go back to work next week and it needs to get done...like "safe for everyone else on the road" done. NeRP started daycare this week and I've been picking him up around 3:30 each day. This morning he threw up in the bassinet. Then after DW fed him. Then again after I gave him a small feeding. Dr said it  could be the baby stomach flu going around. Sweet...plans to finish the truck today put on hold but at least I'm STARTING to feel better. I need to get serious about PRing the marathon I'm running this year by about 5 minutes. A sick kid SUCKS to deal with. If he could just use his words and let me know how he is feeling it would be great. At least he can hold his fat head up. 4 month checkup Monday (shots) but he might be strong enough to take on a run...which is good and bad.

             

            This place moves REAL fast.

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            VDOT 53.37 

            5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

            OMR


              max:  Your telling of your dilemma seems to point to option 1.

               

              A quick hello to everyone.  Thanks for the well-wishes for tomorrow.  I've received two sets of conflicting information about all of this.  One was a document I received in the mail on Tuesday stating that the length of time I will be incapacitated is three weeks, with no activity during that time and an estimated date of return to work set for 4/27/18.  Wait, what???  Today's phone conversation with a nurse included her asking me if I had access to crutches.  I said yes, to which her response was, "Well, you might want to bring them along, because depending on what they find, you may not be able to put full weight on your leg for a day or two."  Hmm...  Surgery is scheduled to get started around 11:40am CST.  They said I should be out of the hospital somewhere between 1:30 and 3:00pm.

              ilanarama


              Pace Prophet

                 

                But, but .. you are soooooooooooooooo much older than me!!!

                 

                 

                I suspect the Y chromosome is the important factor.  And I'm way younger than you, I thought!  Two days, right?

                 

                Good luck to OMR on the surgery, and to CK on the race.

                 

                Max - aw.  It's a hard decision but you know what you need to do.

                  .... you may not be able to put full weight on your leg for a day or two."  

                   

                  That was my experience, 13 years ago. I was cheating -- going from one side of kitchen to the other -- pretty quickly. Hope your experience is similar. (Hair growing back from where it was shaved was just awful; it itched sooooooooooooooooo much!)

                   

                  Ilana ~ I'm 20th.

                  fb-guy


                    Weather question. It should be about 57F at the start and 68F at the finish.


                    What should I expect? That's pretty hot. Right?

                     

                    Will I need sweat to feel warm waiting for the start?

                     

                    Thanks!

                    m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35

                      Weather question. It should be about 57F at the start and 68F at the finish.


                      What should I expect? That's pretty hot. Right?

                       

                      Will I need sweat to feel warm waiting for the start?

                       

                      Thanks!

                       

                      Not ideal, but still not as hot as Botulism in 2012.

                      Post Asthma Era PRs: 5K--18:39 (Mar 2016), 10K--39:40 (Feb 2018), HM--1:28:04 (Jan 2017), MAR--2:59:12 (November 2017)

                      jaimegu


                        Hi, all,

                         

                        Sorry, this trip makes very hard for me to adapt... while in the office I'm really busy, while at "home" I'm half sleep and half doing home shores.

                         

                        FB:

                        I find those 57F ideal, and those 68F a bit too much.  I would just use the trash bag or throw away sweater, feeling a tad cold at the start.

                        For the last part of the race, I\d just adjust by effort (or be dramatically adjusted by it)

                        I also read something about athletic age vs real age... I think everything goes hand in hand but individual parameters are more important.That means, age has one effect undeniable effect, how long you have been running might have at least statistical effect (injuries or just retirement after you feel you can't improve more or have fulfilled goals), but there are athletes that can and have the will to keep at it

                        Good luck on your race

                         

                        OMR: Good luck in the surgery!

                         

                        Keen: Good luck in your race

                         

                        Pesto: Buena suerte!

                         

                        Max: If that Streak is not that tempting, you have your answer, recover and comeback stronger for your goals in summer

                         

                        Re High Heels: Sorry, I don't have enough experience to comment

                         

                        Everybody, Hi

                         

                        Me:

                        Really low this week... Coming back from work late and tired to actually go out for a run.

                        Taper-2 (aka, last week)

                        Weekly Summary
                        Monday, Mar 26, 2018 thru Sunday, Apr 01, 2018

                        <tfoot> </tfoot>
                        Day Miles Pace Description Link
                        Mon 6.1 8:11 The last one... Running errands strava
                        Thu 1.1 12:17 To the office strava
                        Thu 9.7 7:47 Skatås Motionscentrum 8k loop strava
                        Fri 12.3 7:38 Exploring the town strava
                        Sat 8.8 9:37 Easy turisten strava
                        Sun 17.1 7:58 To the sea... And back strava
                          55.1 8:13    

                        Jim E


                          Weather question. It should be about 57F at the start and 68F at the finish.


                          What should I expect? That's pretty hot. Right?

                           

                          Will I need sweat to feel warm waiting for the start?

                           

                          Thanks!

                          Botulism last year was hotter than that. Running smart paid dividends.

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                             

                            I find those 57F ideal, and those 68F a bit too much.  I would just use the trash bag or throw away sweater, feeling a tad cold at the start.

                             

                            I find 37F ideal, and 57 too hot Smile

                             

                            (I love the comment about adjusting effort lest you be adjusted by it...)

                             

                            OMR - I hope it goes well.

                             

                            Good luck to all our racers!  I have Pesto and FB in marathons, Runnerjones (who has MIA) in a half, PJ in Cherry Blossom 10, and CK in a 10K.

                             

                            I did 10.5 this morning, including 3 warm-up (9:13), 5K tempo in 19:43 (6:21/6:21/6:16/0:45), 4.5 cooldown (8:46) plus injury prevention work and recovery swimming.  Felt like ass.  Trying to decide whether I'm getting sick or my allergies are flaring (due for another Xolair shot on Monday).   Since the pollen is sky high right now, I was fairly sure it was allergies, so I showed for the track workout.  Not a terrible confidence boost to feel like crap 10 days out, but better now than at the race.

                             

                            Pagng Smax - can you refresh us on your heat training protocol?  This whole cycle, I've been making a point to overdress for nearly all my workouts and easy runs - i.e. doing my long runs in longsleeves, tights, gloves, and headband even when it was in the 50s  (the only exceptions were today's workout (because I felt like ass anyway - why compound it) and my tune-up half.  Over the past week, I've also added some short sauna sessions - 10-20 minutes - on the basis that it couldn't hurt as long as I didn't overdo it, and might help (sitting in the sauna, not working out in it).

                             

                            I know that if Botulism is in the 70s, I'm cooked.  However, I"m trying to prep for the possibility of it being in the mid-50s - some prep for those conditions might make the difference between a good and bad race.

                             

                            Any words of wisdom from the sage?

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            rlk_117


                            Resident Millennial

                              i will share some heat training insight that smax shared with a few of us on facebook recently:
                              Heat adaptation (and de-training) happen pretty quickly. You don't have to worry about this until 3-4 weeks before the event. Once inside that window, you want to do maybe 9 sessions of heat training, roughly every other day until ~5 days before the event. Heat training can either be sitting inside a sauna for as long as you can, gradually increasing the length over the 3 weeks... or... the fun stuff. I don't think you can do a heat training run in 60 degrees weather. You want high 70's or higher. Then you put on tights, a warm/thermal long sleeve, a pullover on top, a warm hat, socks that hide the skin between your shoes and tights, and ... warm gloves. Then you run for about 90 minutes, really slowly so you don't die. When I do this, I find that my heart rate is about at marathon effort when I'm running on the slow side of easy. If you are miserable and your brain feels off (at least the first 2-3 times), you are doing it right. If you want to be really bad-ass (like Ian Sharman when we saw him hiking uphill at Squaw Valley) wear a thick sweatshirt with a hood that will block any air from flowing past your face. Definitely take a water bottle and drink it all during the 90 minutes - well, I don't even have to tell you to drink it, just have it with you. Just in case. Ideally wear all black on a very sunny day - it makes it more fun. The good news - at least with the hot runs, which I think work better than the sauna - is that after just two or three sessions I notice that my HR is a few beats lower at a given pace than it was before heat training. But be aware that one of those hot runs (and possibly the sauna) is like doing a workout - it hammers you and you'll be fatigued for a day or two. If you are pursuing fame and fortune as a 5k hobby jogger this spring, it might conflict. P.S. The sauna might work better if there's a way for you to be active, e.g. doing pushups or handstands like the guy I saw in the sauna yesterday. A treadmill in a very warm room would work too.

                              fb- 57-68F sounds pretty decent. It's no 45 and overcast, but staying under 70 by the end (i assume that is approaching noon / when things warm up) is a pretty good place to be. as jim alluded to, botulism last year got up to i think 78 by the end, and bright sunshine. i think i still have PTSD from that race.

                               

                              jim- hi!!! yes, i have been running track. it's a little bit scary but my team has a lot of women doing track this season, and that makes it less scary. i refuse to race under 1500m though, that's just too damn short. i think the track training is helping me with 5ks, too, but if i had to race further than that i would probably crumble. haven't done a tempo run or an interval longer than 1200m in a long time.
                              question for you - i have a friend who just moved right next to the park st bridge at oakland/alameda border. he's getting sick of running along the alameda shoreline and he also needs to know where the closest and reliable (as in, no climbing fences to access) 400m track is. do you know?
                              glad your recovery is going well! hope to see you at some race soon.

                               

                              kk/oregon- heels ... ugh. i never wear them! i don't dress particularly well for work anyways, but i wear flats as often as i can. i also don't really need the height (but i do like it, on the rare occasion i wear them Big grin ).

                               

                              been lazy about posting training. here it is:
                              M- 6.2mi ez and 45min of strength training
                              T- 10.5mi total incl 3x(3x300m@mile race pace), 100m jog in between reps, 500m jog in between sets. ran 59-60 for all the 300s which is ~5:20 pace, so pretty good. this was hard - i was seeing stars by the end of the last two reps!
                              W-  14mi bike commute + 7.7mi ez on (flat) trails
                              Th- 6.8mi incl 9x(200m@mile race pace). these were 38-40, in the rain,and bf did it with me stride-for-stride.
                              today (F) i will strength train, tomorrow will be a 20min tempo (! it's been awhile), and something longish on sunday. my soleus(/achilles?) are pretty tight right now.
                              it's interesting - i spend less time actually running these days (i have maxed at like 54mpw), but i make it up for time spent doing drills, foam rolling, strength training, etc. i am not low-level fatigue all the time like i am when in the thick of marathon training, but muscles are sore!

                              _________________________________________________
                              mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58

                              runethechamp


                                Good luck to everybody racing this weekend. I see the forecast for Pesto in Paris is 70 and sunny, although not that warm at the time of the race.  Two years ago it was cloudy and cold and rainy all week before the race, then it turned on the morning of the race with nice sunny weather and temperatures in the high 60s. I don't think I dealt very well with it then and to me it felt a lot warmer than what the thermometer said with the sun beating down on me during the race.

                                 

                                Regarding heat training, I've read somewhere that the Kenyans train a lot in tights and long sleeved shirts for just this reason. I bet it all helps.

                                 

                                RLK - I know about 3 tracks in Alameda that might be ok, but I don't know if they are open to the public. And if your friend goes straight up the Oakland Hills Redwood Park is right there, if he wants something less flat.

                                 

                                Other than that I'm enjoying running around at easy pace, a lot with our dog, and using the easy runs to fill out my Strava Heat Map. I realized that there are lots of streets even in my immediate neighborhood that I've never been on, so apart from getting a cool grid on my heat map I think I will get to know my city a lot better in a few weeks/months.

                                5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)

                                 

                                Getting back into it