Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
DkW ~ Excellent RR. Marathons are cruel in that they don't often reveal your fitness. Still a very solid time -- the splits don't show a real bonk. I have always fretted over wtf to wear in 30s and rain. Your photos are a how to from fit athlete to bag lady in three easy steps!
rlk ~ The mental part of a long track race is huge. 10000m is more than twice as bad (although I haven't done one since college.)
8x5' tempo w/ 1' rec today.
pie man
I posted this on the book of faces but I felt I should post it here, brought home a second cat a few weeks ago now. I was down to one pet and I think he was lonely so I gave it a shot. His name was thumper but I should prbavly change it to Yuki.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
Duke Of Bad Judgment
Nice report DW. I think yesterday you missed out on the main thing that makes that race special - the spectators and the state party/holiday that happens for 26 miles along the course while you are racing. Watching on the teevee, my DW and I both noticed how empty the sidelines were even near the end of the race (last 3-4 miles). Maybe that's still peripheral to the race in your (humble) opinion, but I think it is the one thing that sets it apart. And the weather was just too much for many people - I don't blame them at all. Otherwise I agree, it's a just race with a lot of hooplah around it.
Anyone know people who raced yesterday who scaled their goals back a little before the race due to the weather? What I saw from people I knew and from tracking was that no one scaled back before the race but everyone (every single person I had some info on) faded a little to a lot. I can see that - you start the racing seeing bad weather but hoping you'll get lucky and it will let up during the race. It would be stupid to give up beforehand if it did let up during the race, so you go for it. And then eventually after it doesn't let up, it gets you one way or another. The past two warm years were like that also - the forecast was on the edge of ok/doomed (and turned out to be a bit optimistic even) so pretty much everyone set off hoping to get lucky, and no one did. Yes, in 2012 lots of people scaled way back. The last 2 years, not so much.
Dwave: Thanks for the RR. Wow, what a day. Congrats!
I was one of those people last year. It's so......................... hard. A lot of hard-earned wisdom here.
I also thought the crowds looked exceptionally sparse.
Congrats to the Boston finishers -- hope you all are home and finally warm. Initially I thought it would be similar to 2015, but it looked much worse.
Darkwave: Nice race report. I agree with SeattleMax in that the thing that sets Boston apart is the crowds and the vibe you get running to the finish. I noticed on tv that the crowds just weren't there this year. Sorry you missed out on that -- it truly is special. You are a very tough runner though - I don't know that I could have stopped myself from slowing down, hypothermia or no.
Brewing: Congrats on the successful pacing!
OMR: Glad the PT seems to be going well so far and you're feeling pretty good. Hope it continues.
Scaling back goals: I don't know anyone who did this year. In 2016, which seemed pretty hot (to me), I didn't scale back, thinking that somehow I could just power through it (despite training in cold, rainy Oregon all winter). It wasn't good. Last year was hotter, I scaled back, basically threw goals out the window, and ended up running faster and feeling better than I did the year before. Lesson learned.
I ran 5 tonight on the treadmill, yesterday off, Sunday 13. The 13 felt good and was pretty easy, which gives me hope that I'm not completely off base for thinking I can start an 18 week training plan for a marathon in a month or so.
Rune - thanks for reading the RR! You’re right, I think it was only one tunnel, but there were lots of underpasses for bridges that required going up and down, that’s why I meant regarding tunnels. I used the wrong word there
brew - good job on the pacing gig! Enjoyed the RR!
jaime - that sounds incredibly rough, ending up in a wheelchair. You should be very proud of that time, it’s quite impressive under those conditions. Also, your and DkW’s RRs took me back to reality regarding how the toughness of it probably outweighed the “being able to say you were there and tell your kids” quality of the story. Also, vi que eres colombiano! Felicitaciones!
DkW - great RR! Loved all the details about how you plan your gear and races. I have a lot to learn! Also, this cracked me up:
”Jetblue did a special pre-boarding for Boston Marathoners on Tuesday morning. At first I was a bit uncomfortable: I felt like we were getting the special treatment reserved for veterans and active duty military. And then I realized we were getting the special treatment given to small children and invalids, and it made more sense.”
OMR - glad to hear things are going well and it seems you’ll be back on it in no time!
rlk - good job on the track race! That sounds mentally draining. Just like SC's workout.
me - thanks for the feedback on consecutive marathons, ilana, fb and ace! I hope I didn’t forget anyone. Ilana, I can definitely see that happening to me too, that’s why the fact that this race allows to downsize to the HM on the spot was a good set up. Otherwise, I wouldn’t even consider it.
I did 6 miles with 2 at MP yesterday and felt surprisingly well once again.
HOwever, given the feedback and the fact that the weather for Sunday in Vienna looks just as bad as it was for Paris, I think I will not race the FM and just take it easy and enjoy the experience.
5K - 18:03 (5.18) | 10K - 37:58 (2.18) | HM - 1:20:45 (9.18) | FM: 2:57:59 (10.18)
The Boston race -- I wonder if the weather dampened a lot of things this year. The crowds are always great, with the Red Sox games on the radios and the BBQs in the people's front yards, over the hills with the BC frat boys drinking beer, and through the deep crowds in the city. One year it took me longer to recover from a hoarse voice yelling with the crowd than to get my legs back. I also like the way the whole city gets into it, from the taxi ride at the airports to the restaurants, hotels, etc. All of that and meeting up with (imaginary) friends.
Pesto -- Vienna sounds like a lot of fun, but probably not a PR. Great city.
I'm trying to work out why I struggled 10 days ago. Since the race I've run every day, and now have a string of 5 straight 6+ mile runs faster than my MP (8:13). It's fun and not too hard, and I don't feel it the next day. My memory is that MP miles used to be difficult. Maybe these workouts are harder than I am giving them credit for, or maybe it's really as simple as "run more". I just don't have the endurance to maintain something faster for 26. For now, I am leaning toward base building; a steady stream of increasing garbage miles trying to build up endurance -- maybe for a summer race and an autumn run for BQ2020.
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
My thoughts on DkW's report..
Enjoyed it! Congrats on a dang good time! Many I know were easily 10+ minutes slower than what they trained for.
RE: Pre-boarding - this never appeals to me. More time sitting in a tiny seat is not a bonus in my book.RE: Boston Experience - agree. I guess it is like a big disconnected Runner's Convention with some talks, meals, and a highlight event. I could see enjoying it more as a spectator since I wouldn't have the stress of the race.Funny about not sharing the "obsessive reverence." Me neither, but for some reason I am fascinated by the many people that do have this and how hard they work to BQ and obsess over the cutoff at registration.RE: Gear - did you use hand-warmers during the race? Also, how do you keep gels from squeezing out if you've removed the tops? My best option for opening gels on the run is using my teeth (hold gel in hand, grip top with teeth, pull). Be it sweaty or cold hands, this is my best method.RE: Elite drops - I can understand elites dropping too. They probably get their appearance fee either way. They aren't there for the experience and don't have to finish for a qualifying time. I think many people want to believe they are tough and could handle any weather.
In regards to the "Boston Experience": I've never run it and am slowly getting closer to a BQ. I'm not exactly sure why I want the BQ, but I do. I guess it's just a natural thing as a marathoner who wants to get faster. It also sets a more concrete goal for me. The funny thing is I don't have the same drive to qualify for NY or other big city races. Regardless, I hope to run Boston one day and I hope the conditions are better than 2 days ago. I also realize I've said Boston a lot and apparently you all think that is a bad thing to do.
I have ran twice in the last 3 days, Woo Woo! Three miles on Sunday and 3.5 yesterday. Essentially pain free and no soreness the next day. Hoping to continue to progress.
I have missed running a lot, but have enjoyed the variation in cross training. I may try to keep a swim or bike day in the schedule and will try to keep up with the strength training too.
Continuing PT for hopefully just one more week.
Brew: your race report sounds like what my inner dialogue would be if I were to pace a race. I think it would be a lot of fun to help people towards their goal, but it would stress me out at the same time.
DW: enjoyed the race report. The waiting in the athletes village sounded miserable. I'm pretty impressed with your AG placing by the way!!
The more videos I see from race day the more I'm impressed by you runners who got out there on Monday. Y'all are crazy.
Surprisingly 4/12 runners from our training group had PRs on Monday and 6/12 had a BQ.
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
I made the BQ time my goal for my second marathon. Not so much because I wanted to go to Boston, but because I saw it as a goal that had some meaning. I BQ'd four times before I decided to actually go. I partially went because both of my running buddies also BQ'd and we decided to go together. Peer pressure.
And now I'm feeling that pressure again as one buddy is considering going back next year.
Problem Child
ace You've read my race reports before...I talk just as much in my head as I do in those as I do in person. Coworkers are going to Nashville later this month. My first thought was "man I could meet Ace if I was going." As for a BQ...I told my wife I could stop running when I've run that marathon. 4/20/20 would be a great day to quit competitive running. I think it has more to do with how many people know of the Boston marathon. I feel like no one cares about New York but if the times weren't so hard to qualify I'd run it...mostly for a reason to go to NYC.
elites dropping I kind of went on a rant on Sage Canady's social media after he posted something about dropping. I pretty much called him a quitter and told him to listen to his own advice about focusing on a goal like he said when he went for the OTQ at CIM.
marathon plans Talked with the wife about plans and she pretty much said she doesn't care what plan I do as long as I'm serious about training. She will be upset if I go out for runs during the week but I'm not working towards my BQ effort. I'll have to look at the two plans a little more.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Mother of Cats
My thoughts on DkW's report..RE: Gear - did you use hand-warmers during the race? Also, how do you keep gels from squeezing out if you've removed the tops? My best option for opening gels on the run is using my teeth (hold gel in hand, grip top with teeth, pull). Be it sweaty or cold hands, this is my best method.
Yes, i used handwarmers. I wore fairly heavy combination mitten/gloves, and tucked the handwarmers inside the mitten part (this is how I always do it - I use handwarmers anytime it's below 40. I had sprayed the mittens with Scotchgard earlier in the week, in hopes of keeping the handwarmers dry (in my experience, they don't work if they get wet). I also wore plastic gloves under my normal mitten/gloves.
The next step up from that would have been to run in my snowboarding mittens (I use those when it's below 25). But I can't take gels with those.
As for the gels, I tear them a quarter open, and then pin to my shorts. Then, when I take them, I open them with my teeth as you describe.
My issue was that I couldn't extricate my gels from my shorts. I think I should have tucked an extra one or two in my sportsbra as a back up.
Smax - most people I know scaled back. I don't run by pace, so I didn't scale back in the traditional sense, but just ran by effort, which did the scaling back for me. I was especially cautious because I've never run Boston before, so I think I held back too much from 6-16 to protect myself for the hills.
Ace - curious if you saw any correlation between waves and relative performances. From eyeballing all the performances from runners I know, it seemed like the relatively worst performances were in the women's elite start, and then Wave 1/Elite Men. Wave 2 seemed on average to have the best performances of the day, with Wave 3 a bit behind (but still much better than Wave 1). My hunch is that this has to do with a) how many runners you had in front of you to block the wind and b) the timing of when the worst winds and rain would hit.
5.5 "miles" pool-running and half-assed yoga this morning.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Pace Prophet
Dwave - I enjoyed your RR, and I agree with Dad that your splits don't really show a bonk, just a light fade. So you were seriously hanging on! Your comments about the Commons and Athlete's Village remind me of when we were hiking on the Caribbean island of Grenada and we joked that the native Caribs and Taino peoples had 50 words for mud.
Eliz - I enjoyed your RR also! Your pacing looked really solid. I think that keeping it easy early on was the right thing to do.
Jaime - ugh, it sounds dreadful, and clearly getting into the wheelchair was the smart option. T-shirt and shorts, plus my guess is that you've got less body fat than the women...you were probably suffering pretty badly.
Brew - my take-away is that pacing is hard! I try to note down a few key spots where I want to be at X elapsed time, but I imagine that for pacing you'd really want to do that more than two or three places, so a pace band with elapsed time marks makes sense. I would like to pace one day. Well, I'd like to race again one day...
I did not wimp out! The SU and I ran our short 3.8 mile loop yesterday despite the cold howling wind. It wasn't nearly as bad as it was elsewhere in the state: https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/high-winds-poor-visibility-close-several-highways-in-colorado-power-outages-reported
By the way, one of our local races sent out the following email:
Did you see the weather at the Boston Marathon this morning? Yikes. Near freezing temperatures, pelting rain, and 25 mph winds.
In case you are wondering, typical weather at the Thirsty 13 Half Marathon is blue skies, sunny, and 59 degrees at the start line, warming up to low 70s by late morning.
(Oh, and there are 50 breweries at your post-race party.)
Hi all! Working on RR but it seems like I had a similar race to most of us that ran: in the end, it was a slow fade, the only real time I lost was the 2 med tent stops I made (only 2 9+ miles), and I'm glad I did. That was a pretty miserable experience. and I let my fear of hypothermia get in my head a lot, so in the end I'm just glad I stuck it out and I'm okay. One of the most mentally tough races I've done.
Re: scaling back - I totally did. I knew when I was standing in icy mud this wasn't a PR day since that would have entailed perfect conditions which I did not have, so I never really pushed my pace in the beginning, and by the end, I just couldn't and I was doing nothing more than hanging on. My watch was covered with my jacket, so I didn't know what was going on most of the time.
PRs: HM: 1:32:59 (2015); FM: 3:18:36 (2017)