Forums >General Running>Race Bandits
Look up "theft of services."
But nothing was "stolen". No T-shirt, no medal, no water/snacks. Does that change your opinion?
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Look up "theft of services." But nothing was "stolen". No T-shirt, no medal, no water/snacks. Does that change your opinion?
(Not that I agree that running in a public space should necessarily be called theft of services -- it seems to fly in the face of what a public space means, but...)
I don't really understand your quote and response above -- you seem to be mixing "services" and "tangible objects" ?
It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.
not bad for mile 25
No.
an amazing likeness
I look at it this way....
Using the example of a race that is on an open course -- that is one where the general public can use the same roads/paths/trails on the race day. A bandit who just happens to run on the same course at the same time is not stealing services. They are not a bandit in the event, just someone at the same time and the same place. Like public skating and a hockey game at the same time on the town skating pond.
Using the example of a race that is on a closed course -- one where the race organizer controls (or "owns") the use of the course. A bandit using the course, using the mile markers, using the police and course marshal protection is taking services that the rd charges for. No, they are not consuming then in way that keeps others from also having them, but they are taking race services and not paying for them.
Acceptable at a dance, invaluable in a shipwreck.
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The police services, the road closures to traffic, the placement of cones and barriers, extra trash cans, mile markers, insurance premiums, paramedics available on site....all of this was "stolen" even if none of it fits in a bandit's pocket to "take home"
MTA: that MilkTruck is fast!
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Hm. Under #3 above, you seem to be saying that anyone using a pacer is cheating, and the pacer is banditing. Do you believe that about ultras as well?
I know you weren't asking me, but... In an ultra (or any race), when runners & pacers act in accordance with the rules, I do not consider it cheating or banditing.
(That said, I do think pacing (and crewing) in ultras has gotten way out of hand and should, generally, only be permitted when safety is truly at risk... HTFU people! It's supposed to be hard!)
Liz
pace sera, sera
So if a a group of 50 people walk blocking the whole road and do not take any goods or services - Hell its a public space - It does not make them less of an dillweed in my book.
I expect to have to navigate around people who are competitors in a race, why do I have to dodge bandits when it is a closed course?
So the real question - If the badit is not getting anything out of the race - why the heck do they not run somewhere else? The reason they are banditing is they are getting something out of the race ... Without paying for it or else they would choose a different route.
Long dead ... But my stench lingers !
On On
The police services, the road closures to traffic, the placement of cones and barriers, extra trash cans, mile markers, insurance premiums, paramedics available on site....all of this was "stolen" even if none of it fits in a bandit's pocket to "take home" MTA: that MilkTruck is fast!
I always find it funny when people talk about a bandit profiting from such things as cones, barriers, trash cans, medical personnel, etc. EVERYONE around the race that day profits from those things, not just the runners. The spectators, the friends, the family members watching, everyone not just the runners. If a spectator falls over with a heart attack do you think the medical personnel is going to check to see if he has a bib on first before administering care? Who gets to throw away garbage in the trash cans, just runners? or everyone.
I myself am an RD and none of my courses (except one) are closed to the public. They are mostly run on trails and frequently we will have other walkers, runners, hikers on the trails while a race is going on. It is just expected on race day that others will be using the same trails as the race. There is nothing I can do to stop anyone from running the entire course while a race is going on. In reality there is nothing I can do to stop someone from taking food at the aid station too. But to be honest it is the friends and family members (especially little kids) that think the aid station is just an open buffet for anyone that annoy me more. Does everyone treat these thieves the same way as someone that runs the course but doesn't run through the finish chute nor take any food?
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(Not that I agree that running in a public space should necessarily be called theft of services -- it seems to fly in the face of what a public space means, but...) I don't really understand your quote and response above -- you seem to be mixing "services" and "tangible objects" ?
I've yet to find a prosecutor, at least here in Virginia, that feels like he or she could charge a race bandit with a crime under the usual condition (ie, running the course, but not taking a shirt/medal/food). It makes for good dinner conversation, though, since lawyers like endless hashing over of hypotheticals.
Rick - I do agree on courses that are not closed - I expect to respectfully navigate around the general public. I hope they respectfully navigate around me -
Ask them if taking food from the aid station is theft, but not running.
Well, 3 Days at the Fair is a closed course. No one but registered runners. I know it does not fit your schedule any more, but still throwing it out there.
I think you have a better argument there.
All I said was I had to re-evaluate the choices of Spring 24 hour race - It is still in the running - I finally broke it to my wife this week. I am letting it soak in that we will have to make a choice of abandoning our kids again on Mother's day or I would have to find trustworthy NJ people for a crew ... If I try at 3-days at the Fair.
The other plus of 3-Days and Cornbelt = If I get the flu or other medical calamidy - I still have FANS24 as a last resort.
3 Days still has the course nod but the travel frowny face.
I think you will see an uptick in serious 24 hour runners at all 3 events
Cornbelt
3-Days at Fair
FANS24
making a last ditch effort for the US 24 hour team.
I believe this year it is very possible that it will take 155-160 to take the last "Open spot" of 3 for the team. I know with good weather I have a chance at that at 3-Days and FANS. I am not so sure of hitting that on a 400 meter track.
Nothing matters until I get fit.
Its not illegal for me to belch loudly in public - But it does not make it right.