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Two runs of x == 1 run of 2*x ? (Read 269 times)

jerous


    Hi,

    I'm planning to do a marathon in Octobre. As for training scheme I'm probably going to use Hal Higdon's Novice 1, which has a lot of 3 and 4 mile runs in it.

    The one-way distance to my work is about 2 mile, so I was thinking of running there in the morning, and running back in the evening, and doing like that my 3 or 4 mile training.

    However, the question I have now: how equivalent are 2x2 mile and 1x4 mile? Do they have the same impact on training, or is one preferrable over the other? What if I run the 2x2 mile at a faster pace than the 1x4 mile?

     

    Thanks,

    Jeremy Smile


    Feeling the growl again

      They are not equivalent, especially for marathon training.  Endurance events require building endurance.  That is the opposite accomplished by slicing a run up into shorter ones.

       

      If your objective was just to burn X number of calories per day, then they are roughly equivalent.

       

      Running them faster won't deliver the same thing either.  True, if you are doing low mileage (for you) you will get more out of running a higher percentage of it at intensity.  But it's not the same as distance.

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

      I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

       

        Those are some pretty small numbers to be concerned over the difference in benefit from them as the difference will be negligible even if repeated many times in a row.

         

        However, with regards to double runs versus single runs in general; it is better to understand that they serve different purposes in a training routine.   The point of running multiple times in a day is to allow you to increase your overall training volume beyond what you would do if running just once a day.  Even if one of the runs is a shorter run - the more time you can spend on your feet running the more opportunity you have to improve motor neuron patters leading to greater running efficiency along with the other adaptations runners seek.

         

        Also, a common use of doubles is to have  shorter run earlier in the day and then the "workout" or longer effort later - the "shakeout" run actually opens your capillaries up and can help with some waste removal to hopefully provide a little better result in the harder effort later.

         

        Again, it's best not to think about comparing them against each other, but how each serves a purpose in training and how you either might fit in your schedule.

        GinnyinPA


          Being able to run to work (I assume you have a shower there) what you might want to do is to increase your miles more than is in the Novice 1 program.  You have time to build to an intermediate level (about 40 mpw) before starting marathon training.  Then when training starts, do the 2 miles in the morning to add some miles to the plan, and do whatever the plan requires as your afternoon run (4, 5, 10), etc.  Look at it as an easy way to increase your fitness beyond what is in the plan without risk of injury.  On rest days you could just walk to and from work.

          FSocks


          KillJoyFuckStick

            What Spaniel said.  The marathon is about endurance and it's why I don't particularly like HH's novice plans.  Do your best to make those 3-4 mile runs 6-8 mile runs (or longer) even at the expense of dropping a run or 2 a week.

            You people have issues 

            EpiRunr


              Why not add in a detour or two to make one of your commute runs into a 3 or 4 miler?  That way you'd be increasing your mileage a bit (by adding in a 2 miler, which is nothing in terms of the mileage for a marathon), and still getting in the "distance"..

                I like the option of a watch free 2 mile run in the morning and a detour in the evening to make it a 4-8 mile  ( going from 4 to start and then increasing to 8 ) run a few times a week.

                 

                To answer your question though, in running math a 2 + 2 = 2 , 2 + 6 = 6.5, 2 + 8 equals 9 and so forth.

                AmoresPerros


                Options,Account, Forums

                  What if I run the 2x2 mile at a faster pace than the 1x4 mile?

                   

                   

                  I can't find a scientific calculator that can handle this one.

                  It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                    What if I run the 2x2 mile at a faster pace than the 1x4 mile?

                     

                    Just noticed this, Thanks AP.

                     

                    Are you saying you can run 4 miles faster with only 1 break in it, than you can run the same 4 miles with 3 rest breaks in it? or are you talking about the overall time including the resting time?

                    EpiRunr


                      Just noticed this, Thanks AP.

                       

                      Are you saying you can run 4 miles faster with only 1 break in it, than you can run the same 4 miles with 3 rest breaks in it? or are you talking about the overall time including the resting time?

                       

                       

                      I think OP wondered if there was a benefit to running to and from work at a faster pace than running a single 4 miler (it was written kind of like intervals, but I don't think it was intended that way).

                      jerous


                        Thank you very much all for your replies!

                        I guess the first month or so I'll just run in the evening (after work), and then later switch to an additional morning run and a longer evening run to and from work.

                         

                         

                        Are you saying you can run 4 miles (=6.437 km)(=6.437 km)faster with only 1 break in it, than you can run the same 4 miles (=6.437 km)(=6.437 km)with 3 rest breaks in it? or are you talking about the overall time including the resting time?

                        I meant indeed what EpiRunr said Smile But it's been answered already

                         

                         

                        What Spaniel said.  The marathon is about endurance and it's why I don't particularly like HH's novice plans.  Do your best to make those 3-4 mile (=6.437 km)runs 6-8 mile (=12.875 km)runs (or longer) even at the expense of dropping a run or 2 a week.

                        The HH plan has 4 weekly runs, so you would suggest something like only two weekly runs, with one 8 miler and one long (that follows HH's plan)?

                        FSocks


                        KillJoyFuckStick

                          Thank you very much all for your replies!

                          I guess the first month or so I'll just run in the evening (after work), and then later switch to an additional morning run and a longer evening run to and from work.

                           

                           

                          I meant indeed what EpiRunr said Smile But it's been answered already

                           

                           

                          The HH plan has 4 weekly runs, so you would suggest something like only two weekly runs, with one 8 miler and one long (that follows HH's plan)?

                           

                          I'd suggest one "general aerobic" type of run 5-8 miles (building it up longer as you progress and then a "medium long run" trying to get that above 10 miles for as many weeks as possible.  Follow that up with a "long run" on the weekends that is being built up to 20ish miles.  I think that prepares you better than what HH does.  If you're feeling good some weeks add a "very easy" 4-5 mile run (perhaps earlier in the training cycle when your long runs aren't built up yet).

                          You people have issues 

                          runmichigan


                             

                            The HH plan has 4 weekly runs, so you would suggest something like only two weekly runs, with one 8 miler and one long (that follows HH's plan)?

                             

                            Hal's Novice Marathon Plans have you running four days a week.  Tuesdays and Thursdays are typically easy runs that start at 3 miles and climb to 5 miles.  Saturday is the long run that climbs from 6 miles to single 20 mile run using a 3 week stepback cycle (increase 2 weeks in a row and step back the third week).  Wednesday is the medium long that several people are recommending - starting at 3 miles and climbing to 10 miles.

                             

                            My experience with Hal's plans are that the novice plans are primarily designed to get you to the finish line without being totally wiped out.  The Intermediate and Advanced plans are more for runners who want to improve (typically 2nd marathon and beyond).  They bump you up to running five days a week, add pace/tempo workouts and intervals.

                             

                            So a lot will depend on what your goals are - finishing or a specific time goal.

                            jerous


                               

                              I'd suggest one "general aerobic" type of run 5-8 miles (building it up longer as you progress and then a "medium long run" trying to get that above 10 miles for as many weeks as possible.  Follow that up with a "long run" on the weekends that is being built up to 20ish miles.  I think that prepares you better than what HH does.  If you're feeling good some weeks add a "very easy" 4-5 mile run (perhaps earlier in the training cycle when your long runs aren't built up yet).

                               

                              Do you have or know where I can find more information about it or a scheme, so I can read a bit more about it?

                               

                               

                               My experience with Hal's plans are that the novice plans are primarily designed to get you to the finish line without being totally wiped out.  The Intermediate and Advanced plans are more for runners who want to improve (typically 2nd marathon and beyond).  They bump you up to running five days a week, add pace/tempo workouts and intervals.

                               

                              So a lot will depend on what your goals are - finishing or a specific time goal.

                               

                              It is my first marathon; three weeks ago I ran a 10 mile race in 1:30, so I think I'm aiming for finishing first, and then doing it in maybe 4hours or something alike. Smile

                              Running five times a week is a bit much, so intermediate and advanced plans are out.

                              runmichigan


                                 

                                 

                                It is my first marathon; three weeks ago I ran a 10 mile race in 1:30, so I think I'm aiming for finishing first, and then doing it in maybe 4hours or something alike. Smile

                                Running five times a week is a bit much, so intermediate and advanced plans are out.

                                 

                                If you only can run four days a week, then the idea of making one of the mid-week runs a medium long run is a good idea.  I personally would recommend starting at 3 miles like Hal recommends, but I would build it up to about 12 to 13 miles.  A lot will depend on how much time you have to run midweek.  The medium long run needs to be done as single run.

                                 

                                This gives you a weekend long run (builds to 20 miles), a midweek medium long run (builds to 12 or 13 miles), and two easy/recovery runs of 3 to 5 miles during the week.  This gives you two quality workouts a week.

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