2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 426 times)

darkwave


Mother of Cats

     

    In all seriousness, darkwave I'm not sure I understand your initial distinction. Aren't we both saying there is a range, with a cap in how high your HR should be / how fast your easy pace should be? Nobody on this page would argue easy pace is a target number. That's a big mistake.

     

    I suspect that many people who claim to use an easy rate pace as a ceiling instead subconsciously use it as a target.  This is because there is an ego aspect to pace that there is not to heart rate or power.

    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

     

    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

    JMac11


    I spilled the milk

       

      I suspect that many people who claim to use an easy rate pace as a ceiling instead subconsciously use it as a target.  This is because there is an ego aspect to pace that there is not to heart rate or power.

       

      Yeah but that's not what I'm saying which is why I'm confused by the argument that using a range for easy pace is being a slave to your watch, but targeting heart rate is not. They're doing the same thing. But I understand your point that some people target a pace, which is bad. Mine is definitely a cap.

       

      I find my recovery runs vary more than easy runs though and those have absolutely no range to them. This cycle I've been up to 7:45, but I've hit a few 9:00 sessions as well.

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Jersey Shore Half Marathon (10/2)

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

         

        The heart rate monitors also don't work as well for many females because they've got small wrists.

        That happens to my wife, who's also small, and the HRM reads high.

        Regardless of why that happens, those are the numbers DW has to work with, like she said, you've got to use your own numbers, captured from using the HRM multiple times, not from formulas based on other people.

        My max HR is around 179 which is hilarious as it coincides with the 220 - age thing 😁

        My easy runs average around 125.

         

        Agree on the point about small wrists and the accuracy of wrist-based HRMs.  However, for that reason, my HR numbers are all from the chest strap.  This is the advantage that women have - we have to wear a strap around our chest anyway (the bottom of a sports bra), so adding on a HRM strap isn't the annoyance that it is for men.

         

        Regarding heart rate - an interesting factoid is that it's apparently affected by the elasticity of your blood vessels, as well as your total blood volume.   As you get older (especially if you are female and your hormones take a plunge) your blood vessels get much less elastic and also slower to adjust.

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        SteveChCh


        Hot Weather Complainer

          Given how I felt yesterday on my easy run, I was a little surprised that my heart rate wasn’t in the 130s. I agree that’s where it should be for me. I do have some doubts on the accuracy of my watch lately but generally I think sometimes it shows as lower than it is. My heart rate took a while to come back to ‘normal’ after Covid too. Having said that, on Wednesday I did a reasonably solid workout which felt extremely comfortable and again I was surprised that the heart rate data showed it got into the 170s. Usually when I’m training and it gets that high, I’ve had to go pretty close to the edge.

          Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

          Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

          Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

            Yesterday I ran 5 miles at a heart rate of 114 bpm 

            That was my recovery run.

             

            I have heard that people with small hearts have a higher heart rate as they beat faster to get enough blood around the body.

            I'm running with a mate shortly who is very fit but his heart rate will be 150 when I'm 135.

            He's quite small 5'4 and wears women size shoes....

            I know shamefull 

            50+ PBs -  

            5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

            10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

            Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

            " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

            Somewhere in between is about right "      

             

            JMac11


            I spilled the milk

              Steve - interesting. I do think there's something to just doing a test of running something like 10K at a really slow pace (9:00 per mile). No harm in trying it one day and see.

               

              Piwi - very nice! I've grown to love slow recovery runs this cycle. I've done a few that are MP + 3 minutes! They're so enjoyable, just not all the time.

               

              Darkwave - you're so careful with your words I can't tell if you're saying that's a fact, or you're using the word factoid literally.

              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

               

              Next Race: Jersey Shore Half Marathon (10/2)

              flavio1980


              Intl. correspondent

                You're not supposed to defend yourself when they trash talk you. You're supposed to trash talk and troll them back 😂

                It's like when your wife accuses you of something. You never defend yourself, rather accuse her back of something. Also keep something wrong they did a long time ago ready to use in that situation 😁😇

                 but if someone has a crack then I'll defend myself.

                PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                Up next: 10K Family race

                Tool to generate Strava weekly

                Marky_Mark_17


                   

                  Yeah, but you don’t take the bait so easily. 


                  The thing is, Mikkey, coming on here and throwing an insult or two around isn’t so much baiting me as it is just being a bully.

                   

                  The fact you feel the need to do that, often unprompted, with monotonous regularity, sometimes in the wee small hours of the morning… remind me again who is getting under whose skin here?

                   

                  Flavio - did I do it right? 

                  3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                  10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                  * Net downhill course

                  Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

                  Up next: Nelson Half Marathon, 6 Nov

                  "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                  JMac11


                  I spilled the milk


                    The thing is, Mikkey, coming on here and throwing an insult or two around isn’t so much baiting me as it is just being a bully.

                     

                     

                    Bless your heart.

                    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                     

                    Next Race: Jersey Shore Half Marathon (10/2)

                    Marky_Mark_17


                       

                      In all seriousness I am with Mikkey on this - 2 x HM + 19 mins and 2 x HM + 21 mins? Anything beyond 10 mins after FM training cycle is just plain and simple bad training or as he said - "suck in marathon". No trolling - pure fact. That doesn't cancel the fact that you are really really good in HM and shorter distances.


                      Sure but Mikkey also thinks that the only other person on this thread who has only run sub-3 in a marathon (never over 3) is a hero so I’m just going to put this down to him talking nonsense.

                      3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                      10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                      * Net downhill course

                      Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

                      Up next: Nelson Half Marathon, 6 Nov

                      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                      Marky_Mark_17


                         

                        Bless your heart.


                        Just calling it what it is. I’m not the first person to say it either, there was a lurker who described it as exactly this a few months back.

                         

                        As much as this is just super fun, that’s enough for now, see you all in a month or two when we probably just go through the exact same cycle again.

                        3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                        10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                        * Net downhill course

                        Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

                        Up next: Nelson Half Marathon, 6 Nov

                        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                        JMac11


                        I spilled the milk

                          But you come in looking for it! It's different when Mikkey trolls you in the 130 thread. We had a good discussion going about the importance of slowing down easy pace specifically for marathon training, and then you came in and gave a snarky reply of "just run by feel", which makes no sense in the context of trying to help people who haven't gone through a marathon cycle before and don't know what the right feel is, nor do their HRM numbers fully make sense without further investigation.

                           

                          So if you're going to post in a thread refuting people who actually know how to run marathons, acting like you know more than us, expect to get jabbed about your poor marathon performances. And you don't even plan on running a marathon ever again! So in your words, you came in here just to be a bully. Don't dish it if you can't take it.

                           

                          Also you're the only person who has never run a marathon above 3. 

                          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                           

                          Next Race: Jersey Shore Half Marathon (10/2)

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            So if you're going to post in a thread refuting people who actually know how to run marathons, acting like you know more than us, expect to get jabbed about your poor marathon performances. And you don't even plan on running a marathon ever again! So in your words, you came in here just to be a bully. Don't dish it if you can't take it.

                             

                            Also you're the only person who has never run a marathon above 3. 


                            Posting a conflicting opinion isn’t bullying. Personal attacks are. If you guys are marathon experts then surely you can refute a point without telling people that they suck.

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

                            Up next: Nelson Half Marathon, 6 Nov

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            JMac11


                            I spilled the milk

                              By those standards everyone who says CIM is a cheater course used by people to get fake PRs is bullying me. Instead, all of us who've run it joke back at those guys, or ignore them, just like Flavio talks about. He's a smart (and very strong) man. Take his advice.

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                              Next Race: Jersey Shore Half Marathon (10/2)

                              Marky_Mark_17


                                By those standards everyone who says CIM is a cheater course used by people to get fake PRs is bullying me. Instead, all of us who've run it joke back at those guys, or ignore them, just like Flavio talks about. He's a smart (and very strong) man. Take his advice.

                                 

                                You may have noticed I'm not big on doing things a certain way just because that's what people say you should do.  If you want to laugh bullies off or ignore them, good for you.  But in my opinion laughing it off just ends up normalising their behaviour.

                                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                                * Net downhill course

                                Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

                                Up next: Nelson Half Marathon, 6 Nov

                                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"